(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[3600]OT[5x40 byo-yomi]
PW[fj]PB[CrazyStone]WR[6d]DT[2014-10-18]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[CrazyStone [-\]: GTP Engine for CrazyStone (black): Crazy Stone version http://remi.coulom.free.fr/CrazyStone/
fj [6d\]: enjoy the game! 
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pp]BL[3561.66]
;W[dd]WL[3553.928]
;B[pd]BL[3522.897]
;W[eq]WL[3545.002]
;B[kq]BL[3484.652]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: They're on!
topi [3k\]: Auf gehts FJ!
Hannoskaj [?\]: And a first surprise: fj does not uses his 5-4!
gogonuts [5d\]: L3 is the real surprise
GoIngo [?\]: good afternoon
Hendl [1k\]: why?
gogonuts [5d\]: hallo ingo
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I wonder if there is a cs analysis of the second game too, I only found for the first game
BOThater36 [4d\]: Not to me gogo
gogonuts [5d\]: L3 is very unusual by human standards
NiceGoAuth [-\]: And somebody told, a zen analysis will be done too? anybody knows where it is?
Leonidas [2k\]: where's that, nicegoauth?
gogonuts [5d\]: not really a side extension and not an enclosure
]
;W[cp]WL[3340.335]C[fluidistic [5k\]: E3 seems weird too
BOThater36 [4d\]: Nicego, I hope it only analyzed f's moves
First [2k\]: just wrong order
Koons [1k\]: CS won the first right? was there a second? who won?
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: what is the level of Crazystone ? :-)
gogonuts [5d\]: fj was brooding, because L3 doesnt make c4 more urgent
]
;B[pj]BL[3446.149]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: its stands 1-1 right now
fluidistic [5k\]: fj won the 2nd game
Koons [1k\]: thx ootak
fluidistic [5k\]: I bet on the bot
gogonuts [5d\]: but c4 still fine ocf
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: which strength CrazyStone is seen ?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: first game: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/CrazyStone/analysis/2014-10-04-fj-CrazyStone/index.html
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: gogo, c4 not urgent from corner perspective, but b h3 would be annoying for right side development?
fluidistic [5k\]: 5d to 6d depending on time control
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: tks
Leonidas [2k\]: thanks nicego!
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: slower time controls, weaker rank
Prodigious [-\]: i'd thank b if he exchanged h3 for c4
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: ko
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: ok*
]
;W[fc]WL[3251.787]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i think i would have split at r10 instead of c4, to give the bot a chance to mess up the fuseki :-)
fluidistic [5k\]: passive move F17?
gogonuts [5d\]: no
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: f17 one of those moves that cant be wrong really
Prodigious [-\]: this is pretty standard nowadays
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: just a choice
gogonuts [5d\]: f17 is beyond reproach
fluidistic [5k\]: ah ok
gogonuts [5d\]: looks pro :-)
]
;B[cj]BL[3407.742]C[Koons [1k\]: nothing is beyond reproach
BOThater36 [4d\]: Once fj becomes more familiar with cs, bot don't get a chance. If fj wins this game it will be 3-1
Koons [1k\]: says BOT hater
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
]
;W[cl]WL[3221.616]C[gogonuts [5d\]: hater, i dont think there is an easy way to "figure out the bot"
First [2k\]: not even fj has this steep learning curve
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: knowing bots playstyle is worth probably 1 stone at very least, probably more.
BOThater36 [4d\]: I'm still on bet watch using Andriod
]
;B[cg]BL[3369.371]C[GoIngo [?\]: and ... cs might be modified during the rounds
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: c15 feels.. mandatory
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and then b plays o17
fluidistic [5k\]: cs won't make the same moves in a row anyway , no need to modify it
]
;W[ce]WL[3189.119]C[gogonuts [5d\]: not mandatory, can also go with o17
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: o17 q14 l16 b16 wouldnt work out too well I think
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b16 slide too pretty
Hannoskaj [?\]: Is there still c17 in this position, in some cases?
gogonuts [5d\]: but giving the bot a somewhat weak group is a good idea
]
;B[gd]BL[3330.951]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: g16, me likes!
gogonuts [5d\]: bots are bullies - they prefer opponent weak groups :-)
fluidistic [5k\]: love that move
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: one of my favourite moves, shoulder hitting the keima from hoshi
GoIngo [?\]: fj playing very slowly
Schachus12 [10k\]: but this way, it looks like the bot might get a center again, isnt that his strenght?
gogonuts [5d\]: f16 for g14 doesnt look attractive
gogonuts [5d\]: i would g17
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: g17 j16 h16 h15 h17 j15 hurts too
BOThater36 [4d\]: H15
gogonuts [5d\]: oota, h16 not a must there
spacetime [4d\]: oh boy. game 3
ruckzuck [2d\]: but black is working on a moyo. so probably white gets his weak group when he invade
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: gogo, tenuki or nobi instead?
gogonuts [5d\]: but allowing bot g17 too painful, imo
]
;W[fd]WL[3045.076]C[gogonuts [5d\]: oops
DDOSgg [-\]: we are back
DDOSgg [-\]: to the crazystone ....
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: atleast this puts pressure on the c13 group
gogonuts [5d\]: planing on g14 d13, maybe
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: fj will lose this game tho
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: what mashine is used for Crazystone
]
;B[jd]BL[3292.192]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: linuxgoo, its running a dualcore celeron 900MHz
fluidistic [5k\]: lol
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: k16... cmon, what is that?
gogonuts [5d\]: sofar much better development for fj than games 1 and 2
spacetime [4d\]: O16?
gogonuts [5d\]: k16 may look weird, but it makes it hard for w to continue
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: o17 still I think
fluidistic [5k\]: G15
spacetime [4d\]: sry that's what i meant, o17
]
;W[kj]WL[2954.814]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i agree fluid, clean up here
DDOSgg [-\]: hi fluidistic
spacetime [4d\]: if b kicks and extends then m16 attack on the k16 stone
BOThater36 [4d\]: If I play Gin with this oprning, I lost
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b n10..
spacetime [4d\]: or this...
GoIngo [?\]: almost tengen
Leonidas [2k\]: l10 ftw!
spacetime [4d\]: anti-bot move
DDOSgg [-\]: thats a really cool nickname
DDOSgg [-\]: xD
fluidistic [5k\]: provocation :)
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: w offering b 7th line territory?
DDOSgg [-\]: l11 ?
]
;B[li]BL[3253.709]C[DDOSgg [-\]: its crashing the bot
fluidistic [5k\]: hahah
gogonuts [5d\]: good answer
DDOSgg [-\]: n12 for the win
DDOSgg [-\]: jk
GoIngo [?\]: we have a fight now ?!
spacetime [4d\]: m10 then invade top right
]
;W[qc]WL[2923.795]C[DDOSgg [-\]: fluidistic
gogonuts [5d\]: L10 was a little paniky, imo
BOThater36 [4d\]: L10 SHOWS not deep enough
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: invade first, that way decide if m10 or l11?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b should so rob sente here
DDOSgg [-\]: ur going for phd physics?
]
;B[qd]BL[3215.451]
;W[pc]WL[2919.787]C[Koons [1k\]: o17 variation for b
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: o17 now
]
;B[oc]BL[3195.638]
;W[ob]WL[2917.72]C[Koons [1k\]: boo
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b could double hane too I guess
gogonuts [5d\]: o17 not a bot move :-)
fluidistic [5k\]: not yet @Ddos
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: not for corner, but outside forcing
]
;B[nc]BL[3175.603]
;W[nb]WL[2910.529]C[gogonuts [5d\]: good choice here by cs
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b going for bot style, playing tenuki instead of r14
DDOSgg [-\]: do u work too?
DDOSgg [-\]: or studying
spacetime [4d\]: me? not sure. I tstudied physics as an undergrad, now i'm making a movie :) but I might want to go back to school
]
;B[mc]BL[3155.438]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: space movie?
]
;W[rd]WL[2908.19]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: If w gets m1o
gogonuts [5d\]: makes m11 more valuable
]
;B[re]BL[3135.702]
;W[rc]WL[2905.781]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: now b m10
fluidistic [5k\]: black G15 or G14 better?
Leonidas [2k\]: hey btw, where is rsun ?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: no bot plays r14
gogonuts [5d\]: upside for w is that g16 for f16 looks good for w now
]
;B[ki]BL[3096.709]C[spacetime [4d\]: i always think of rsun as 'radius of the sun' hahaha
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: l11.. cmon, how can b choose that side?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Bot can't let w get m10
First [2k\]: this moyo so small
spacetime [4d\]: R17 was too early, should have split the side imo
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: well, bot probably wont expect w to play m10 here, nor would I play it
gogonuts [5d\]: m10 not attractive for w
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: the shape is just too ugly to play m10
gogonuts [5d\]: after b L11
spacetime [4d\]: now maybe crazy moves around r10 to activate r15 cut?
]
;W[ij]WL[2854.764]C[DDOSgg [-\]: b leading
DDOSgg [-\]: but r14 needed
gogonuts [5d\]: i disagree
gogonuts [5d\]: but w not leading - thats bad enough :-)
GoIngo [?\]: @DDO: you should not look at SE
]
;B[gj]BL[3058.3]C[gogonuts [5d\]: fuseki is the best chance against bots
BOThater36 [4d\]: DIO b leading? Lol
DDOSgg [-\]: ;))
]
;W[ji]WL[2840.875]C[Schachus12 [10k\]: I dont like fjs play giving thr bot so many center chances
spacetime [4d\]: I think w is fine, I ust dont like giving computers weird moyos that are hard to judge :)
spacetime [4d\]: now m10 is huuuuuuuge
BinX [3d\]: w chose a rather slow opening
]
;B[lj]BL[3025.587]C[BinX [3d\]: that's why b looks big
BOThater36 [4d\]: Fj will have easy win this game
]
;W[kk]WL[2821.292]C[Amenophis [5k?\]: b leading? i doubt it. b has only the bigger moyo, not definite territory
Leonidas [2k\]: easy? I don't think so..
]
;B[ml]BL[2986.428]C[gogonuts [5d\]: g10 was stronger at L9
]
;W[qq]WL[2809.858]C[spacetime [4d\]: I think pros would def prefer white. it's just scary, that moyo...
]
;B[qp]BL[2966.679]
;W[pq]WL[2807.892]C[spacetime [4d\]: and doesnt white have to make r15 a threat somehow? otherwise b gets away with ome it seems
Koons [1k\]: sente less valuable than last time?
gogonuts [5d\]: w still has s14 - so thats not finished territory
]
;B[nq]BL[2927.849]C[spacetime [4d\]: but if he cuts now it might die, bs14 etc right?
Koons [1k\]: b doesn't agree with me :)
BOThater36 [4d\]: B needs very successful attacking on center to have chance
gogonuts [5d\]: i agree, w r15 would be very brave :-)
]
;W[oq]WL[2769.601]
;B[op]BL[2908.297]
;W[nr]WL[2767.858]C[gogonuts [5d\]: b not small
gogonuts [5d\]: but has to haste back to r14
]
;B[mq]BL[2888.504]C[Amenophis [5k?\]: but w has all four corners
NiceGoAuth [-\]: nicego likes b with 63%
BOThater36 [4d\]: Tenuki. Help Center now
spacetime [4d\]: k13
]
;W[mr]WL[2731.089]C[GoIngo [?\]: remi, can you tell us cs% ?
fab [4d\]: nicego is another go programm ? How strong is it ?
gogonuts [5d\]: n2 is an important push, hater
gogonuts [5d\]: author of ginsei
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 1k, but usually % are quite acurate
]
;B[hi]BL[2849.826]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: in comparison with cs and zen
First [2k\]: w so passive
faillll: h11 so ugly
First [2k\]: where is his all or nothing mentality from last game?
topi [3k\]: i thibk all bots love Bs position
gogonuts [5d\]: h11 is vital, dont call it ugly :-)
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: 56%
GoIngo [?\]: thx
BOThater36 [4d\]: Told fj to tenuki lr
gogonuts [5d\]: remis bot is wiser than other bots in evaluating center chances
NiceGoAuth [-\]: sure 5 Stones are not for nothing:)
Leonidas [2k\]: h11 vital point indeed
Koons [1k\]: also helps b's stones on the left
NiceGoAuth [-\]: nicego would play h7 now
Koons [1k\]: i'd never find h11 in my game
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: K12 expected
]
;W[kn]WL[2601.285]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: I'm not surprised that there is a big difference in evaluation between CS and icego in this position: a more accurate (slightly less optimistic) evaluation of moyo s one of the big differences between the top programms and the others.
faillll: gogonuts, every comment yours are for counter ? You should quit that, its getting like a customs mark from you, i hope you don't make it in real life too
BOThater36 [4d\]: Now we start a 7d+ bot attacking 6d human
GoldenBear [2d\]: I think FJ is definitely trying something special in this game - this does not look like normal style. In that respect Crazy Stone made an impression on him :-)
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: seems a tad ridiculous that w center is under attack and c10 has become strong, and b has selaed huge swaths of territory
]
;B[gl]BL[2811.383]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: fj better make real good use of the r15 aji to reduce
]
;W[hk]WL[2592.982]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Yes Bothater, not the type of position you want against a bot…
faillll: sometime you will say nah in the nothing... im with seok bin here..
faillll: quit that already
kmlck [2d\]: giving bot thickness isnt a bot idea
kmlck [2d\]: they 
]
;B[gk]BL[2772.941]C[kmlck [2d\]: use it for magic
]
;W[jg]WL[2588.793]C[kmlck [2d\]: good*
spacetime [4d\]: weird game. who's winning?
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: C6 coming
]
;B[cn]BL[2753.653]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: ya, bots excell at using thickness, probably 2 stones stronger at it than other aspects of the game
GoIngo [?\]: Hi Stefan, please do not change anything!
BOThater36 [4d\]: C6 nothing small
gogonuts [5d\]: fj will be grumpy about c6
Leonidas [2k\]: c6 textbook stuff
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: d7 d5 e6 d4 d3 f5?
fab [4d\]: stop giving bots textbooks ;(
gogonuts [5d\]: strong players hate beeing harrased for profit
fluidistic [5k\]: Rémi please tell us when cs winrate is over 65% thanks :)
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: E7 D8 D7 C7
BOThater36 [4d\]: Don't run don't save
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: still 56%
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: cs prediction dont seem fair
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: srely w will fight here with d7 instead
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: even if it ends up giving b small gote life in corner
First [2k\]: this bot could probably beat me in an even game
keyjun: fail, go kgsbash and check the top post: #3 [+|-\] (71)  monk316 [3k?\]: no matter what you say on KGS, no matter how true in irrefutable, someone will always contradict you monk316 [3k?\]: you can count on it pistachio [8k\]: not always. Even if some idiot contradicts you, its all about a kgs marketing and mods of gay nerd with no $ at all
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: first, this bot could probably beat you giving you 6 handicap
gogonuts [5d\]: if w plays on the side he will duck at b6, imo
nhanh [3d\]: remi may I ask what is your own level?
gogonuts [5d\]: but i thing he will play for the center
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: gogo, isnt the d7 d5 standard sequence?
gogonuts [5d\]: to be able to play b6 more safely later
First [2k\]: ootakamoku don't hurt my feelings
First [2k\]: my handicap play is pretty strong
BOThater36 [4d\]: White h3 or h7
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: was kgs 4k when I played regularly.
wry [1d\]: of course it would :)
NiceGoAuth [-\]: is this already live and death game for the center?
gogonuts [5d\]: d7 is local shape
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: 8k official EGF.
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: first have u tried playing against ginseiigo?
keyjun: i hope kgs quit that tradition of being retard nerd, because i see none contribuitions for real life, but just insulting others in this ridiculous go server
gogonuts [5d\]: but feels like overplay here to me
Prodigious [-\]: b6 is not really a thing when white has the shimari
First [2k\]: not yet
]
;W[dm]WL[2371.859]C[gogonuts [5d\]: lol
asdasdds: shut up already
gogonuts [5d\]: fj asking for trouble
fab [4d\]: D4 is textbook move
BOThater36 [4d\]: Fj better be ready
gogonuts [5d\]: the bot has aroused his fighting spirit - not good :-)
]
;B[do]BL[2715.335]C[enufo3 [2k\]: fj won last game, right?
spacetime [4d\]: these bots are pretty good - better than me i'll admit - but every time i see them play strong amateurs I feel like the humans play so badly! doing things like L10 and then not really knowing what they're doing until it ends up being bad. 
Leonidas [2k\]: yes gogonuts.. I have a feeling this won't end well
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: D5 F5 E6 F7 E7
asdasdds: spacetime
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: f5 cant be right either..
Donker [9k\]: CrazyStone is bot?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: donker, yes
tuquedenne [3d\]: looks pretty bad for fj
]
;W[en]WL[2321.805]C[fab [4d\]: yeah, I would prefer black too, and I hate moyo ;(
Donker [9k\]: so wouldn't the person who programmed a 6d bot be like 1000p?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: d4 d3 c3 next I guess
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and then jmp to f5
]
;B[dp]BL[2695.898]C[RemiCoulom [3k?\]: so d4 d3 c3 f5 c2
fab [4d\]: Remi is like 5k, you don't have to be strong at go to be good t programming
]
;W[dq]WL[2309.623]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: ermi, ya, that looks about right
Leonidas [2k\]: Donker, in programming, yes :)
GoIngo [?\]: no, it is inverse: the stronger your go rank the weaker your bot
tuquedenne [3d\]: it's even the exact inverse, fab
tuquedenne [3d\]: (non rien)
enufo3 [2k\]: Donker: yes, and the programmers behind the strongest chess engines are better than the world's best players
]
;B[cq]BL[2676.137]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Up to now the sequence you had given after c6, Ootakamoku, kudos!
enufo3 [2k\]: *best chess players
cjr [3d\]: c3 first seems like the right move to prepare f5
Prodigious [-\]: this is basically a joseki
fab [4d\]: 8k to be precise, I just checked
BOThater36 [4d\]: All this on LE shown in textbook. Variation in favor of bot
Donker [9k\]: That makes no sense that the programmer could be worse than 6d or how would he/she know the algorithm to take?
gogonuts [5d\]: f5 c2 is horrendous for w - a real setback
fluidistic [5k\]: Donker it does make sense
Prodigious [-\]: ever heard of monte carlo, donker
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: w can contest this tho
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and let b crawl out
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and keep attacking
tuquedenne [3d\]: ever heard of computer ;)
Hendl [1k\]: looks koish
Donker [9k\]: So why couldn't the 5k programmer follow his own algorithm in play?
enufo3 [2k\]: it makes no sense that some can program a calculator that calculates better than the programmer
enufo3 [2k\]: CANNOT TRUE
Prodigious [-\]: because a human isn't a computer
fluidistic [5k\]: because he has no processing power
gogonuts [5d\]: he doenst have th hardware
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: donker, because the 5kyu cant read 200 moves in fraction of a second
Donker [9k\]: ahhh....
BOThater36 [4d\]: W c2? 
PinotNoir [1d\]: w is living dangerously
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b3
Donker [9k\]: Seems so counterintuitive (like most truths).  I'm gonna crack open the Tao Te Ching and get trashed now.
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: c2 b3 b2 g6
gogonuts [5d\]: ok, this looks as bad as games 1 and 2
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: expected continuation
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: dangerous for the w center group to start fight, but playing c2 here and gote to conenct up seems too depressing
]
;W[bp]WL[2160.662]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Hmm
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: so ya, w chooses to fight it
Mneme [2k\]: h ?
GoldenBear [2d\]: Back to the game: CS should be pretty strong in a fight like that one on the lower left corner, too, if it is not distracted by too many other unsettled positions on the board.
Mneme [2k\]: oh ?
enufo3 [2k\]: Donker: can you calculate 1252/2384 in 1 millisecond?
gogonuts [5d\]: no matter how it ends, fj will be 3 for 3 getting into a bad position
Donker [9k\]: Yes I can
enufo3 [2k\]: any computer can. I don't see what's counterintuitive about that
]
;B[fo]BL[2637.547]C[PinotNoir [1d\]: i think w is being suicidal
spacetime [4d\]: b6 -> ko?
gogonuts [5d\]: w stones look like flies in a spider web
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: g7 was my firght thought here
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: but maybe just do ugly push instead
BOThater36 [4d\]: So gogo do u agree now white can't run c8
PinotNoir [1d\]: MC bot love such situation...
GoIngo [?\]: white should start many local actions and never finish one ...
GoIngo [?\]: that will damage the bot
gogonuts [5d\]: it looks bad even against another human
PinotNoir [1d\]: "all out to kill" situation
gogonuts [5d\]: what makes it worse, is that bots love this
GoIngo [?\]: you mean the corner only, gogo?
gogonuts [5d\]: no
gogonuts [5d\]: the entire situation
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: yes, having many fiers on the board at once does weaken bots reading for sure, but I think human gets mroe confused by it
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: need positions that are comlpeted from humans perspective, but from bots perspective, typically semeais are nice for that.
spacetime [4d\]: so b6 or f6, which is it gonna be
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: but not from bots perspective*
PinotNoir [1d\]: now it is like E6 or L9 dead... or both dead
gogonuts [5d\]: oota, you have to distinguish between fires close to each other and fires apart
Meto [2d\]: g7
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: f6 f4 g6 c2 expected
gogonuts [5d\]: when the fires are close, the bots can get genius on you
]
;W[bn]WL[2006.449]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: gogo, I know, and since players strong, everything is close to each other
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: thats why I think best choice is semeais in enclosed corners
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: bots spend lots of resources figuring those out
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: F4: 61%
]
;B[fp]BL[2599.034]C[GoIngo [?\]: bamboo
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I still have 63%:)
]
;W[co]WL[1971.613]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: At least your bot is coherent!
tuquedenne [3d\]: f3?
BOThater36 [4d\]: G2 needed?
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: H8
gogonuts [5d\]: now the evaluations are more based on concrete fighting so the bots agree more closely
PinotNoir [1d\]: J8?
]
;B[hl]BL[2559.983]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: remi, nicego, do the bots have any protection against sitautions, where there is a semeai in a corner that is enclosed, and then bots have to read it all out after every move, only to get the same result that they close the semeai by 1 move?
]
;W[il]WL[1953.407]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: they lose*
]
;B[im]BL[2540.628]C[RemiCoulom [3k?\]: In such cases, they usually can't read the semeai at all.
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: so they continue to lpay it if its important?
PinotNoir [1d\]: b helping w?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and there by remove the resource hog
PinotNoir [1d\]: strange moves
fluidistic [5k\]: black's territory on east side seems really huge
gogonuts [5d\]: no oota - if they dont like the result, they steer away from it in the tree :-)
Donker [9k\]: What is CrazyStone's approximate rank?
cjr [3d\]: white only has one clear eye
fab [4d\]: black is already trying to simplify the game
fab [4d\]: which my be wrong given all the aji on the right side
PinotNoir [1d\]: CS at least 5d
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: gogo, buts if the semeai is big, and its close, then when they try it in playouts they get result they win it 50% of the time, since playout cant resolve it
Donker [9k\]: Is there a consensus on the "best" bot in existence?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: and 50% of huge kill = very important, so I dont see why they wouldnt continue to read it
]
;W[jl]WL[1844.673]C[gogonuts [5d\]: donker, this is it :-)
GoIngo [?\]: Zen and CrazyStone are the strongest bots
spacetime [4d\]: ya know, I think white still may be winning, assuming this center group doesn't get hurt too badly. 50 to 50 ish, and w has komi
Donker [9k\]: Oh ok
]
;B[jm]BL[2502.102]C[gogonuts [5d\]: that blob of center stones needs another eye
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b going for kill
Donker [9k\]: So humans still dominate bots at the highest levels in Go
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: donker, by good margin, yes
GoIngo [?\]: remi: what thinks cs about life-status of central white?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Bot push moves usually bad
]
;W[ll]WL[1803.244]C[Donker [9k\]: Is that still the case in Chess Ootakamoku?
wry [1d\]: except best go players aren't really human, they're already something else we mere humans can't even begin to understand
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: donker, silly question?
gogonuts [5d\]: but bots are poised to take away games from pros at 3 stones
PinotNoir [1d\]: human is totally finished in Chess
cjr [3d\]: Why can't we get some heat maps? :)
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: in chess, best humans lose to a mobilephone
GoldenBear [2d\]: CS can be a terrific killer. If there is a way to effectively attack white's center group, it will find and do it.
]
;B[lk]BL[2463.628]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Lol Oo
]
;W[km]WL[1790.174]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: It seems to be in killer mode, already.
Donker [9k\]: Didn't know that
]
;B[mn]BL[2444.112]C[PinotNoir [1d\]: the best grandmaster lost to the best chess comp
gogonuts [5d\]: i think its in advanced harrasment mode :-)
GoIngo [?\]: uiuiui
snowman [-\]: S14, please
wry [1d\]: l12 seems huge
Donker [9k\]: I assume that is because Chess has very limited number of possible outcomes compared to Go?
PinotNoir [1d\]: i think w lost
gogonuts [5d\]: snowman, tenuki is out of the question
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: J5 expected
spacetime [4d\]: i like L12
jojotus [2d\]: Donker: go players are just smarter than chess players
Benzene [3d\]: chess and go have same number of outcomes
Benzene [3d\]: win lose or draw
enufo3 [2k\]: game tree complexity isn't the main factor afaik
snowman [-\]: L12 in that case
GoIngo [?\]: % remi?
PinotNoir [1d\]: w need a miracle to win now
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: 63%
Warfreak2 [4d\]: gooooo bot
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 64%
GoIngo [?\]: thx
cjr [3d\]: why can't we get heatmaps instead of %? :)
nhanh [3d\]: what is best here? j14?
afffdsa: what's 63% ?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: you can, KGS cant
Archivar [1k\]: how many rounds does this match have?
gogonuts [5d\]: ironically, w played L10 to simplify the game
PinotNoir [1d\]: best of 5 games, this is game 3
gogonuts [5d\]: best of 5
Mneme [2k\]: best of five archivar
cjr [3d\]: yeah, so can't you share some heat maps?
Archivar [1k\]: thx
BOThater36 [4d\]: Have u heard 10 commandment of Go? In bot go game rule #1 is don't fight bot unless u r pro or close
GoIngo [?\]: my wife says: white in trouble
PinotNoir [1d\]: bot is like 2 or 3 stones weaker than top pros
GoldenBear [2d\]: Ingo: Greetings to Beate!
gogonuts [5d\]: hater, but you have to stand up to its overplays when its behind
GoIngo [?\]: thx Georg, done
Jazzman [1d\]: how strong is your wife, Ingo?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: sorry, have no easy way to get them quickly to the internet
BOThater36 [4d\]: Sure. Gogo
GoIngo [?\]: 35 kiu
Jazzman [1d\]: :-)
cjr [3d\]: Google Drive, dropbox?
GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
NiceGoAuth [-\]: but CS analysis will include them
GoIngo [?\]: but she has common sense
enufo3 [2k\]: :0
cjr [3d\]: I haven't seen it shared for any of the games, think it would be really cool to share
Donker [9k\]: Has Zen ever played CrazyStone?
KlausB [?\]: Did she say FJ has red ears, Goingo?
PinotNoir [1d\]: now w need to make K13 alive... n great reduce the right moyo
PinotNoir [1d\]: far too difficult
Jazzman [1d\]: thats sthg, not many people have =)
GoIngo [?\]: No, she only saw the white mess in the centre
Warfreak2 [4d\]: b has many simulations of w's group. he will use these simulations to blackmail w - if w doesn't resign, all of his simulated groups will be tortured, and how does he know he is not one of the simulations?
testgo1 [5k\]: imposible life for k11
BOThater36 [4d\]: J12
PinotNoir [1d\]: can be alive... but b get points everywhere
gogonuts [5d\]: maybe J14
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: l14
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: l14, greed is good
Warfreak2 [4d\]: there is no direct local life
PinotNoir [1d\]: J14 good move
spacetime [4d\]: i still like L12. then b N13, w M13
NiceGoAuth [-\]: the idea of C6 was to seperate center?!
spacetime [4d\]: j14 maybe too
GoldenBear [2d\]: You can see at White's time expenditure that FJ is in trouble.
Donker [9k\]: Has CrazyStone every played Zen to decide best bot?
]
;W[je]WL[1474.673]C[GoIngo [?\]: very long think by fj
Leonidas [2k\]: yes, even if w center lives, b gets to solidify most of his moyo
Mneme [2k\]: yes Donker
Donker [9k\]: Who won?
spacetime [4d\]: oo fancy
Mneme [2k\]: and Zen is a little bit stronger
Stuttgart [?\]: I think w will live 
]
;B[ke]BL[2405.721]C[Ebisu [3k\]: if you're in trouble - attach to stuff
wry [1d\]: hard to find best move around k13, none seem really good, and all have some bad aji
GoIngo [?\]: w will live in a central submarine ?!
]
;W[ie]WL[1461.583]C[wry [1d\]: we all live in a central submarine, central submarine~
Reym [-\]: Donker, check http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=crazystone&year=2014&month=6
Warfreak2 [4d\]: we all live in a public subroutine
Donker [9k\]: thx
]
;B[kf]BL[2366.836]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: I agree: W may well live, but B can simplify the game this way - enhancing the bot's strengths
GoIngo [?\]: will the dragon survive?
gogonuts [5d\]: looks like it
PinotNoir [1d\]: poor w
snowman [-\]: eh
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: dragon livign not an issue
gogonuts [5d\]: b sending the dragon home :-)
PinotNoir [1d\]: dragon alive... but game is lost
wry [1d\]: pointsmaking is the issue
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: j13 looks like the move, its ugly but cant find anything better
testgo1 [5k\]: not live now
GoIngo [?\]: on 9x9 it's easy: when white gets two living groups he will win
wry [1d\]: h13 ?
wry [1d\]: oh no, even more ugly
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: h13 k14 j14 j12  problem
cjr [3d\]: bots almost impossible to beat on 9x9?
]
;W[ih]WL[1375.315]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i think ootas move was better
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: cjr, need to be relatively strong pro to beat bot on 9x9
GoldenBear [2d\]: White plays on neutral points now
gogonuts [5d\]: this looks shapier but leaves b h13 peep
]
;B[hh]BL[2328.426]C[spacetime [4d\]: J16
]
;W[kg]WL[1360.939]C[gogonuts [5d\]: bot in a friendly mood - not good :-)
PinotNoir [1d\]: b is playing thickly now
]
;B[lg]BL[2308.688]C[Leonidas [2k\]: lol gogo
PinotNoir [1d\]: b sure think he is way ahead
]
;W[kh]WL[1350.58]C[spacetime [4d\]: oh man - s14 !!!!
Mneme [2k\]: in previous game it finished bad for bot
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: 64%. But CS has an even better eval in the previous game.
gogonuts [5d\]: w got sente for s14?
]
;B[lh]BL[2270.148]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: is this game 2?
]
;W[rf]WL[1348.524]C[wry [1d\]: sente life here is nice for w :)
spacetime [4d\]: woo!
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: warfreak, game 3
Hannoskaj [?\]: Remi, do you see CS protecting s14 in ome variations?
PinotNoir [1d\]: show down time
Mneme [2k\]: 1-1
spacetime [4d\]: h12 big mistake
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: H13 now
Hannoskaj [?\]: Too late.
Warfreak2 [4d\]: ic
OneEyed [?\]: B sure thinks that thinking overrated :)
]
;B[hg]BL[2231.797]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: no its killing time...
GoldenBear [2d\]: now...
]
;W[ig]WL[1335.308]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: naa, w alive
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: no problem
nhanh [3d\]: simple
BOThater36 [4d\]: If w gets sent on right and gets g2 money on w
GoldenBear [2d\]: the game will now end big for one side or the other, I suppose.
]
;B[fq]BL[2193.168]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: goldenbear, can only end big one way
Jazzman [1d\]: he deosnt get g2 =)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: well, f3 is b sente
BOThater36 [4d\]: Cs is smart
gogonuts [5d\]: w has to answer
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: haa
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: why answer?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: just paly r13
Mneme [2k\]: but pro are smarter than bots for the moment
]
;W[dr]WL[1282.359]C[gogonuts [5d\]: cs is cleaning up the board in a very annoying way
pollux1: money on white
pollux1: b yose looks bad
]
;B[bq]BL[2154.722]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b3 looks like cs unhappy
fab [4d\]: oops ?
]
;W[br]WL[1263.566]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i dont see anything there
Leonidas [2k\]: white is starting to look good
BOThater36 [4d\]: At least cs knows if w get g2 game is over
]
;B[dn]BL[2134.682]C[nhanh [3d\]: wow
]
;W[cm]WL[1245.779]C[PinotNoir [1d\]: b is simplifying the game?
KlausB [?\]: another empty triangle ... hmmm
nhanh [3d\]: hmm not very big right now
gogonuts [5d\]: had to answer
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b looks frustrated
]
;B[rq]BL[2095.273]C[pollux1: b in berserk mode because does not know how answer s14
]
;W[rr]WL[1241.059]C[snowman [-\]: black is losing its nerves
GoldenBear [2d\]: that may be...
wry [1d\]: these are not empty triangles, these are mini-b2-bombers-of-death
PinotNoir [1d\]: locally... R15 T15 R13?
KlausB [?\]: Pollux: berserk mode is anice one ... :-)
]
;B[ge]BL[2055.446]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: locally r14 t15 s13 r15 q15 
PinotNoir [1d\]: J16?
BOThater36 [4d\]: The only good empty triangle is bad empty triangle. All programmer knows it
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: j16
Saiya [1k?\]: j11
GoIngo [?\]: % remi?
cjr [3d\]: J11 still takes away the eyes, need to be a little careful
]
;W[ii]WL[1199.75]C[RemiCoulom [3k?\]: 61%
pollux1: w j11 = I win
BOThater36 [4d\]: B can't afford w s4
Mneme [2k\]: j11 = no other choice
]
;B[hj]BL[2015.756]C[rsg [5k\]: Remi, how can you tell?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: could be w interpretted b recent moves the same way I did, that b is going crazy because losing?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: rsg, he is running the bot.
]
;W[ik]WL[1186.279]C[rsg [5k\]: Ah
wry [1d\]: not playing j11 against CS wouldn't be a good idea :)
rsg [5k\]: OK
asdff: RemiCoulom is the author os CrazyStone
Mneme [2k\]: he is the programmer
]
;B[qf]BL[1994.891]C[gogonuts [5d\]: the architect
]
;W[se]WL[1181.015]C[androgo [1d\]: why not g17 first?
GoldenBear [2d\]: the last black moves don't look good - ah, finally!
asdff: s13 then q15
Leonidas [2k\]: s13?
]
;B[qg]BL[1973.754]C[gogonuts [5d\]: bs moves looked ok to me
]
;W[qe]WL[1176.407]C[alalbayuki [1d\]: hmmm
Mneme [2k\]: s12 next ?
gogonuts [5d\]: and w never got the chance to continue from s14
snowman [-\]: bs moves :)
BOThater36 [4d\]: Again in w sente at top and get s4 .game over
]
;B[pe]BL[1952.462]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: s12
pollux1: now s4
rsg [5k\]: What is the approximate level of this bot?
Saiya [1k?\]: s12=ko
asdff: 6d
asdff: it's avaialbe on market
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: s12 aint ko, unless w wants it to be
asdff: available on market
BOThater36 [4d\]: S15 rather big though
]
;W[rg]WL[1125.802]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: gogonut: that last atari on h9 was irritating to me. looked like berserk mode, playing kikashis in order not play in the upper right...
Falcon89 [5k\]: RemiCoulom must be a smart guy if he does make Crazystone bot
GoldenBear [2d\]: but i seem to have been wrong
]
;B[qi]BL[1913.612]C[Mneme [2k\]: yes he is smart Falcon89
doseki [-\]: what hardware is CS running on now?
pollux1: w has found gold: s12 w s11 again...
sbbdms [?\]: wow!
sbbdms [?\]: crazystone..
GoIngo [?\]: Crazystone must be smart bot because programmed be remi
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
sbbdms [?\]: online since tonight?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: i7-5930k if not changed
RemiCoulom [3k?\]:  i7-5930K CPU @ 3.50GHz 
asdff: w 50+
doseki [-\]: 6 cores?
]
;W[rh]WL[1076.109]C[enufo3 [2k\]: just one computer, no cluster?
asdff: B 50 + thickness
pollux1: not 50+ but since bot bad in yose w wins
GoIngo [?\]: one core for each dan grade
BOThater36 [4d\]: Gogo what is next w move?
Taoist [4k\]: e14?
spacetime [4d\]: s4 must be bigger than this right?
Taoist [4k\]: f14?
gogonuts [5d\]: lets see whats the next b move first :-)
doseki [-\]: is CS still ^d on 6 cores? thats impressive
]
;B[ap]BL[1874.758]
;W[bo]WL[1073.347]C[doseki [-\]: ^d = 6d
NiceGoAuth [-\]: if have the winrate at 50% now
Mneme [2k\]: h18 next ?
BOThater36 [4d\]: A4 not a good sign
gogonuts [5d\]: some stray moves by w ...
Leonidas [2k\]: if only I had 6 brains..
gogonuts [5d\]: but cant call that panic yet
]
;B[cc]BL[1836.184]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Hmm
nhanh [3d\]: maybe this?
Amenophis [5k?\]: wow
gogonuts [5d\]: no
GoldenBear [2d\]: but black surely is squandering away ko threats...
gogonuts [5d\]: good endgame if w is not careful
pollux1: this the way CS panics...
spacetime [4d\]: b16
]
;W[eb]WL[1034.305]C[spacetime [4d\]: ooh
asdff: b15 gain
gogonuts [5d\]: interesting choice
Amoriel [1d\]: If this was boxing, bot is the one moving forward
gogonuts [5d\]: looks good
BOThater36 [4d\]: I don't think early 61% including c17
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b still gets the b15 tho
snowman [-\]: fj special
Penfold [5k\]: aiming for side as well as corner?
gogonuts [5d\]: w wants to avoid b sente at the top
pollux1: I thought b16 safer than e18
]
;B[ef]BL[1797.63]C[wry [1d\]: s4 ?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b14
Mneme [2k\]: s4 is full of gote
BOThater36 [4d\]: B14
jinroo [2d?\]: yes s 4 is huge 
pollux1: now black b15 => good yose or live
NiceGoAuth [-\]: b14 my bots move too
snowman [-\]: S4 is like 12 points or more
spacetime [4d\]: b14 also massive
doseki [-\]: Remi, do you think the hash based nodes datastructure is better than the tree based one?
spacetime [4d\]: but s4 gives t2 and m2 sente for b next
woebegone [3k\]: s10 
]
;W[bf]WL[953.458]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Fj read me
]
;B[bg]BL[1759.11]C[cjr [3d\]: this makes c17 look like a loss, b13 doesn't really feel like sente
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: doseki: I use a hash table, but I believe it should not make a big difference.
gogonuts [5d\]: he feels the same hate :-)
]
;W[rj]WL[932.85]C[nhanh [3d\]: :)
woebegone [3k\]: ty fj
]
;B[bd]BL[1739.779]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Imo b tough to win now
]
;W[be]WL[928.283]C[asdff: wow b16
nhanh [3d\]: nothing
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b18 works because of c16 aji?
pollux1: still berserk
gogonuts [5d\]: history is full of bots trying to live with L-shape
doseki [-\]: so no adv in one or the other? isnt hash table one harder to implement?
]
;B[ri]BL[1701.167]
;W[si]WL[923.751]C[pollux1: bots playing such ko threats => bots cannot play ko
Mneme [2k\]: not really doseki and Remi is full experienced with chess hash table
gogonuts [5d\]: L-shape is humanities last best hope :-)
cjr [3d\]: similar feeling to last game
nhanh [3d\]: :)
]
;B[qk]BL[1662.461]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Current percentage?
cjr [3d\]: At least R9 is kind of calm
]
;W[ic]WL[896.64]C[nhanh [3d\]: no other move possible there
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: j17, do not understand
asdff: CS is already the current best 19x19 bot
dagge [?\]: svårt att se cs kunna komma tillbaka nu
doseki [-\]: i mean isn't it harder to implement relative to the tree structure
BOThater36 [4d\]: After w do ft shows why he is Germany champ. If Me I would be wiped out by bot already
]
;B[lr]BL[1624.023]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: hashing slows down because you have to hash, even if it occasionally reduces the tree size by detecting overlap?
]
;W[rp]WL[883.036]C[nhanh [3d\]: ft?
pollux1: strange m2 and not s4
Hannoskaj [?\]: fj
]
;B[ro]BL[1604.596]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: I mean after d7
]
;W[sq]WL[879.839]C[cjr [3d\]: M2 almost assumes K5 next?
challenge [2d\]: w+?
asdff: hashing is faster than node-based
nhanh [3d\]: m2 for s4 was strange
rsun [5d\]: looks like w finally found the way to beat bots
]
;B[jc]BL[1565.886]C[rsun [5d\]: the *simple* way
gogonuts [5d\]: rsun, not yet
gogonuts [5d\]: even if he wins
]
;W[ib]WL[853.315]C[woebegone [3k\]: j6 ?
gogonuts [5d\]: it was too much of a close call
gogonuts [5d\]: he does have the endgame part down pat though
asdff: 4+corners and penetrate center....
doseki [-\]: hashing also can reduce the work in reading, you may find the identical node calculated in another part of the tree
rsun [5d\]: I can't imagine cs winning this game...
rs220675 [1d\]: black's lead is deceiving...amazing how strong cs opened and how little that meant
Mneme [2k\]: the hash thing is pretty fast with Zobrist
]
;B[hc]BL[1527.473]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: asdff, that would hold true, if you actually had to traverse the tree just for the end node, but in this case, you have to traverse all the nodes in the path regardless if hashing or not
BOThater36 [4d\]: W + 3-5 points
]
;W[hb]WL[844.854]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: doseki, yes, that is the reduce the tree size by detecing overlap
Meto [2d\]: s6
Mneme [2k\]: doseki the exactly same position is pretty rare in go
]
;B[bb]BL[1489.101]C[Taoist [4k\]: e10?
Mneme [2k\]: not as much as in chess
]
;W[ac]WL[833.779]C[gogonuts [5d\]: here comes the L
doseki [-\]: it may repeat in some semeai finghting
rsun [5d\]: cs getting desperate?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: now we see, if there is something in top left, my bot had it not fully white
rs220675 [1d\]: panic moves from cs already?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: missread I think
]
;B[gc]BL[1450.568]
;W[gb]WL[828.27]C[agony [5k\]: or setting up ko threats...
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: I spent some time reading topleft, and while it would seem like the c16 aji givse something, it just doesnt work
rsun [5d\]: L10 was a great move
Mneme [2k\]: NiceGoAuth of course misread
pollux1: this horizon effect moves like b18 make bots incapable of understanding ko
rsun [5d\]: throw a stone in the middle, and then take 33, I need to learn that
crash [1k\]: isn't k5 big ?
]
;B[fr]BL[1411.981]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: could probably play k4 instead of k5
gogonuts [5d\]: J6
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: tho might want to asj j6 if doing that
woebegone [3k\]: j6 wrong?
BOThater36 [4d\]: J6? 
KlausB [?\]: J5 seems better ...
]
;W[jp]WL[785.824]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: slight risk b gives up j7 stones now
gogonuts [5d\]: offering bait instead :-)
]
;B[lm]BL[1373.615]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: w can peep at m4 too
BOThater36 [4d\]: Fj thinking h7
nhanh [3d\]: give up j7? how?
pollux1: b cannot cut even giving up j7
testgo1 [5k\]: b want to play ko 
agony [5k\]: how can h7 work?
rsun [5d\]: just get some sente
BreizhI [1k\]: hi evryone
Mneme [2k\]: hi Breizhl
rsun [5d\]: l8 is obvious, which means it should be the last thing to play
gogonuts [5d\]: peep at m4 ok
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: I dont get h7, h7 j6 j5 h6 l8?
gogonuts [5d\]: wait
gogonuts [5d\]: # maybe not
pollux1: m7= horizon effect move (push bad things beyond bot's horizon)
KlausB [?\]: slightly off topic: why does the SE thinks the white stones lower right dead???
gogonuts [5d\]: just connect
woebegone [3k\]: ko would be bad for w it seems, i would still j6 
BreizhI [1k\]: Its pretty close
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: klausb, because its only has 1 ponnuki
BOThater36 [4d\]: Or fj is evaluating the whole situation
asdff: why think? just connect
gogonuts [5d\]: j6 is very dangerous
gogonuts [5d\]: j6 k6 
KlausB [?\]: Oota: but oplenty of liberties? kinda stupid ...
pollux1: h7 may be good probe now 
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: klausb, sure, Ive given up on tryingt o understand why SE thinks the way it does
mmueller [1d?\]: h7 would be captured in ladder
wry [1d\]: SE is god.
gogonuts [5d\]: i think all probes fail, but its natural to think about them
KlausB [?\]: Never mind the SE.
challenge [2d\]: m6 would be nice to have in combination of m4
enufo3 [2k\]: SE think lower right is dead, but gives territory to white anyway
]
;W[kl]WL[570.709]C[gogonuts [5d\]: same conclusion by fj
Mneme [2k\]: simplest move
woebegone [3k\]: the simpler the better
wry [1d\]: SE is over 11p
BOThater36 [4d\]: First time I use android to watch a whole game
pollux1: yes h7 captured but gives ataris at j6 and k6
asdff: but b can j6
lepore [1d\]: seems very close game
gogonuts [5d\]: surprisingly, there was no useful forcing move
]
;B[iq]BL[1334.506]C[gogonuts [5d\]: next clamp?
rsun [5d\]: clamp
Taoist [4k\]: E9?
rs220675 [1d\]: s6 or d10?
BOThater36 [4d\]: N18?
challenge [2d\]: s6
rsun [5d\]: d10 no good
wry [1d\]: s6 ?
woebegone [3k\]: m4 
Mneme [2k\]: when white will s8 ?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Or e6
lespeutere [6k\]: after s6?
]
;W[ip]WL[506.889]C[wry [1d\]: f7 sente ?
GoIngo [?\]: remi, % please?
spacetime [4d\]: seems like j17 area was really small
gogonuts [5d\]: good move
]
;B[kp]BL[1296.039]C[rsun [5d\]: to bend is the trend
spacetime [4d\]: h7
woebegone [3k\]: still j6 :-) 
rs220675 [1d\]: soon s6 will be very big
rsun [5d\]: or clamp bump
]
;W[ln]WL[452.289]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: LO not so good. Only mean if u don't answer
nhanh [3d\]: I think j17 prevents forcing moves and worries about capturing B18
asdff: ??
BOThater36 [4d\]: L4
asdff: M5?
asdff: K5 now
pollux1: maybe tenuki and k5
cjr [3d\]: K5?
gogonuts [5d\]: i have the feeling fj is starting to enjoy himself
Falcon89 [5k\]: haha
]
;B[jo]BL[1257.588]C[spacetime [4d\]: boom
asdff: K5 too big
topi [3k\]: ko!
pollux1: fj mistake?
oasthouse [-\]: w is ok, I think
asdff: M6 pointless
spacetime [4d\]: yes
fab [4d\]: wht's M6 ?
Mneme [2k\]: huge ko
]
;W[mm]WL[431.794]C[asdff: w has s6 there
Falcon89 [5k\]: is the game quite close now?
asdff: s6, s8
gogonuts [5d\]: but j4 is a painful loss ...
cjr [3d\]: fj mistake...
pollux1: not huge black van give up n6
spacetime [4d\]: even if b lets w capture n6, and comes away with sente, still good for b?
BreizhI [1k\]: b s ahead for now Falcon
asdff: now b ahead
Falcon89 [5k\]: thx  B
]
;B[nm]BL[1218.608]C[lepore [1d\]: bot smirks - finally his moment has arrived
]
;W[nn]WL[423.471]C[rs220675 [1d\]: but white is quite in the game
BOThater36 [4d\]: To me about an even trade
gogonuts [5d\]: after all, fj had the simple j6 first ...
pollux1: p7 good enough
oasthouse [-\]: I would have played other atari
oasthouse [-\]: b can give n6
]
;B[mo]BL[1180.092]C[spacetime [4d\]: whoa
asdff: what
challenge [2d\]: lol
oasthouse [-\]: haha, ok
nhanh [3d\]: autch
nhanh [3d\]: !!!
mmueller [1d?\]: I thought L5 instead of M6 is normal
challenge [2d\]: w++
gogonuts [5d\]: w wins now imo
testgo1 [5k\]: big ko
spacetime [4d\]: ok now good for w
]
;W[nl]WL[409.036]C[cjr [3d\]: good for w
asdff: why cs Go for ko???
gogonuts [5d\]: making that ko atomic looks very unsound to me
rsun [5d\]: remi you need to give cs a spanking
BOThater36 [4d\]: Woo bot should give up n6
agony [5k\]: all in
pollux1: bot going to explode
]
;B[lm]BL[1160.712]C[woebegone [3k\]: r12 
Falcon89 [5k\]: haha, rsun
spacetime [4d\]: maybe just k6? lol
rsun [5d\]: r12 is too big, find the smallest possible threat first
Mneme [2k\]: there is no other choice for little chance of wining
BreizhI [1k\]: But even if w destroys q7 area, b is still ahead imo
nhanh [3d\]: ko is huge though
gogonuts [5d\]: r12 is right imo
pollux1: very big ko so need big threat
nhanh [3d\]: w has to get sth
gogonuts [5d\]: has followup threats too
oasthouse [-\]: at least, w can get back the j4 stones
testgo1 [5k\]: may be bot find something here
spacetime [4d\]: is r12 bigger than k6?
gogonuts [5d\]: k6 would be lame
gogonuts [5d\]: then b would have profited
]
;W[qh]WL[322.552]C[nhanh [3d\]: if w just gets back k4 then the whole operation was useless
Jazzman [1d\]: thats a good point, gogo :-)
woebegone [3k\]: thank you!
cjr [3d\]: b has 3 threats on left too
spacetime [4d\]: b would get an extra point or two, but so would white i think
pollux1: thnaks to wasted b3 b18 etc black has few big threats
]
;B[ph]BL[1121.049]
;W[mm]WL[319.373]C[testgo1 [5k\]: ko like boxing
agony [5k\]: go is like boxing
pollux1: b K.O.
Jazzman [1d\]: but b7 is huge 
BreizhI [1k\]: b7 is enought
rsun [5d\]: b7
Hendl [1k\]: if bot wins this ko....i buy it
]
;B[ad]BL[1081.754]C[spacetime [4d\]: we're in for a long morning
gogonuts [5d\]: has to answer
woebegone [3k\]: ignore
oasthouse [-\]: answer
Pingu007 [3d\]: ignore
oasthouse [-\]: d18
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
BOThater36 [4d\]: That's why human always welcome ko against bots be there burned quite a few before hand
KlausB [?\]: spacetime: where are youß
Jazzman [1d\]: as long as q13 is there... answer
wry [1d\]: morning ?
pollux1: b7 bad loses points (yose)
gogonuts [5d\]: loves me, loves me not ...
spacetime [4d\]: east coast
tuquedenne [3d\]: I'd say (answer or ignore)
wry [1d\]: 10:37 pm here :)
KlausB [?\]: Space: I see: it' afternoon here ...
cjr [3d\]: b7 is much more sente, 3 clear threats there, if add 3 threast in upper left b is in ok shape for this ko?
Mneme [2k\]: n9 has nice continuations
tuquedenne [3d\]: b7 loses points
snowman [-\]: white should answer, there are enough ko threats 
GoIngo [?\]: It is a pity - I have to leave soon
Mneme [2k\]: eheh Goingo
Jazzman [1d\]: nahhhhh, Ingo
GoIngo [?\]: my family
GoldenBear [2d\]: Ingo - have a nice weekend!
nhanh [3d\]: I do not see that w has sooo many ko threats
agony [5k\]: seems pretty hard to ignore...
Pichenka [3k\]: я пиченька!
nhanh [3d\]: b has far more
GoIngo [?\]: I will try to trade a few more minutes
rs220675 [1d\]: but white could ignore, its a matter of precise calculation now
Mneme [2k\]: :)
]
;W[db]WL[171.469]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: It is free ko for w, must answer
spacetime [4d\]: i count w needs about ten points from the ko
GoldenBear [2d\]: FJ would also like to trade a few more minutes, Ingo :-D
gogonuts [5d\]: whatever happens, that was a must
]
;B[lm]BL[1062.211]C[GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
rsun [5d\]: you need to explain to them that go is contained in your name
]
;W[pg]WL[168.051]C[nhanh [3d\]: it is not free becuase w lost K4 already
]
;B[pf]BL[1042.914]
;W[mm]WL[165.482]C[GoIngo [?\]: rsun, they do not understand
rsun [5d\]: lol ok
GoIngo [?\]: I will reply to your message later
gogonuts [5d\]: ignoring c18 would be less terrible now
cjr [3d\]: so d15 and then a18 both sente?
rsun [5d\]: thx, take your time
rs220675 [1d\]: I also think white has more ko threat
]
;B[af]BL[1004.323]
;W[ae]WL[151.09]C[gogonuts [5d\]: fj has decided ...
]
;B[lm]BL[984.953]C[rs220675 [1d\]: he wants the money in the bank^^
BreizhI [1k\]: p7 is not enought for b ?
rs220675 [1d\]: considering his limited time it's sensible
challenge [2d\]: by far not
BOThater36 [4d\]: A4 lose 0.5 point ko threat
testgo1 [5k\]: b has c16 threat
cjr [3d\]: lots of byo-yomi
gogonuts [5d\]: d10 enough?
oasthouse [-\]: w will settle for geetting k4 back
fluidistic [5k\]: I'm back... who's leading?
Mneme [2k\]: white
rsun [5d\]: no one knows
fluidistic [5k\]: thanks
challenge [2d\]: depends
gogonuts [5d\]: the better answer :-)
BreizhI [1k\]: I'd say b
]
;W[jn]WL[84.051]C[gogonuts [5d\]: oops
oasthouse [-\]: see :)
fluidistic [5k\]: I am sure cs knows better than most of us :) what's the winrate
rs220675 [1d\]: @flu: black by 57 points according to SE^^
]
;B[mm]BL[965.487]C[pollux1: now connect ko.
GoldenBear [2d\]: Rémi - what does CS think of its chances now?
gogonuts [5d\]: the bot paid a little too, though
nhanh [3d\]: :)
gogonuts [5d\]: with a14 for a15
spacetime [4d\]: ok. I think it's close now
nhanh [3d\]: all the excitement for nothing
agony [5k\]: hm why not suck some more ko threats out of q11, p12 etc?
gogonuts [5d\]: still, this is dissapointing :-)
fab [4d\]: close is not good against a bot ;(
]
;W[ho]WL[41.471]C[oasthouse [-\]: also b k5 was a loss, so probably w didn't lose by playing m6
BOThater36 [4d\]: A14 exchange give up 1 point
enufo3 [2k\]: apart from a14 threat, didn't b gain from all of this?
edenchen [2d\]: j5 
fluidistic [5k\]: well one thing for sure is that now white can reduce black but the opposite is not true
edenchen [2d\]: nvm
challenge [2d\]: h5 nice
edenchen [2d\]: jk
nhanh [3d\]: yes b gained a bit
snowman [-\]: H7 would have been nicer
gogonuts [5d\]: cute move
pollux1: j6 l5 g6 h3
Saiya [1k?\]: h3
]
;B[in]BL[927.188]C[nhanh [3d\]: :)
]
;W[hm]WL[31.783]C[rsun [5d\]: h5 is a 6d move
snowman [-\]: ah, still 
replicator [2d\]: looks like jigo right now
BOThater36 [4d\]: H7 now?
challenge [2d\]: h7 was not better as obv now
gogonuts [5d\]: w wins local cuteness competition
]
;B[hn]BL[907.18]
;W[gn]WL[29.959]C[pollux1: cyt h7 excellent
rsun [5d\]: cs is done for this game
spacetime [4d\]: pure style
]
;B[gm]BL[887.017]
;W[io]WL[27.721]
;B[hm]BL[866.913]C[rsun [5d\]: even remi can't keep himself awake
gogonuts [5d\]: w gets s6, after all the trouble
nhanh [3d\]: pretty useless
]
;W[ko]WL[19.093]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: One problem of mc is it usually don't read throw in moves
Katsu [6k\]: a 6d bot wow
wry [1d\]: s9 now ?
spacetime [4d\]: b10?
enufo3 [2k\]: bots don't squeeze?
Krapsman [1d\]: b will counter strike soon
]
;B[hq]BL[828.305]C[cjr [3d\]: how is that a problem with MC?
enufo3 [2k\]: that'd be a serious weakness
rs220675 [1d\]: s6 or d10
]
;W[rn]WL[1.161]C[nhanh [3d\]: clamp
BOThater36 [4d\]: Rarely. Cnu
rsun [5d\]: clamp like a champ
woebegone [3k\]: where to vounterstrike?
spacetime [4d\]: oh wow it works now cause of o6
pollux1: black cannot t5
woebegone [3k\]: oh... cs, i see
challenge [2d\]: rsun, like tom cruise? :D
Krapsman [1d\]: :p
rs220675 [1d\]: ok, now fj is in driver's seat
]
;B[qo]BL[789.808]C[rsun [5d\]: no, lose like tom cruise
nhanh [3d\]: r7?
challenge [2d\]: w r7
gogonuts [5d\]: r7?
pollux1: s8
rs220675 [1d\]: d10?
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
]
;W[mb]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: kibitzes have greedy minds :-)
wry [1d\]: r7 ?
razornoir [5k\]: what about q8?
razornoir [5k\]: q7
testgo1 [5k\]: i think w win now
fluidistic [5k\]: i wonder what is cs's winrate 
kmlck [2d\]: i think p13 and kill b center
gogonuts [5d\]: another good move
BOThater36 [4d\]: B catch up little but still trailing. About 3 pts
]
;B[rk]BL[751.51]C[Amenophis [5k?\]: look how big b's moyo was and how little he now gets
woebegone [3k\]: p13 ?
]
;W[so]WL[40]OW[5]C[kmlck [2d\]: s15 aji annoying
oasthouse [-\]: now w will regreat r12
oasthouse [-\]: *regret
gogonuts [5d\]: bots have no regrets :-)
pollux1: s14 was 25 points...
kmlck [2d\]: they do actually gogo
agony [5k\]: w is not a bot :p
]
;B[qn]BL[713.021]C[Mneme [2k\]: :)
wry [1d\]: m17 also huge 
kmlck [2d\]: monte carlo is all about regrets
rs220675 [1d\]: @amen: but it takes very precise play from a very good player without any mistake...too often it works
BOThater36 [4d\]: Yes r12 hurt more than a14
challenge [2d\]: se w+half
woebegone [3k\]: p13 ?
]
;W[ek]WL[40]OW[5]C[cjr [3d\]: J12 R14 I would have much lesss confidence as white compared to game
oasthouse [-\]: w could have left r12 threat until after b answered k6 threats
agony [5k\]: wow, 2ds quoting SE!
wry [1d\]: SE is the best
kmlck [2d\]: se got me to 2d
Sundaay [7k\]: SE 10 dan
]
;B[dk]BL[674.654]C[agony [5k\]: :p
gogonuts [5d\]: yeah, i only sneak a peak at se, and dont tell anybody :-)
wry [1d\]: SE over 10 dan
challenge [2d\]: e10???
cjr [3d\]: se typically converges to the right result ;)
spacetime [4d\]: SE still giving b some points in top left - so w ahead i think
wry [1d\]: SE can make 3 points as black in top left, 10 dan can't do that
kmlck [2d\]: i mean i didnt see any 9d players that can kill groups with 3 eyes
kmlck [2d\]: only se can do that
pollux1: e10 possible
BOThater36 [4d\]: My wife use SE to tell me when should I resign
]
;W[el]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: b seems to have more phantom se points
rsun [5d\]: se prompted the invention of random number generation
GoldenBear [2d\]: I know I will regret this question: Who or what is "SE"?
]
;B[ej]BL[655.289]C[spacetime [4d\]: i think b10 was better than e9
KlausB [?\]: At least the SE has resolved the lower right correctly now ...
testgo1 [5k\]: d9 nice move
spacetime [4d\]: now he can't play b10 anymore
kmlck [2d\]: score exaggerator
challenge [2d\]: score estimator
Krapsman [1d\]: and how the bot evaluate its territory?
]
;W[lc]WL[40]OW[5]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: :-)
agony [5k\]: se is 2d teacher
Krapsman [1d\]: using SE as well?
GoldenBear [2d\]: Thanks!
tonberryto [6k\]: bot doesn't care for territory
challenge [2d\]: ergebnis schätzen ;)
kmlck [2d\]: b9 big
]
;B[ld]BL[635.535]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: W in byo.  Not good
gogonuts [5d\]: usually known as guestimator
gogonuts [5d\]: np
tuquedenne [3d\]: b9!
oasthouse [-\]: w is comfortably ahead
woebegone [3k\]: p13 
]
;W[bk]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: byoyomi is generous
challenge [2d\]: w is good ar confusing :o
replicator [2d\]: b wins
replicator [2d\]: sorry, white wins
kmlck [2d\]: m18 big now
challenge [2d\]: listen to replicator he is right
oasthouse [-\]: w should maybe have played l17
]
;B[ar]BL[597.167]C[Penfold [5k\]: l17
fluidistic [5k\]: there we go
nhanh [3d\]: :)
]
;W[cr]WL[40]OW[5]C[wry [1d\]: w l17 seems ok, I can't see b k18 ending in a good way for him
fluidistic [5k\]: crazy stone turning crazy
kmlck [2d\]: w l17 horrible
]
;B[lb]BL[577.754]C[oasthouse [-\]: bother, b got it
DasWiesel [9k\]: why b play a2?
challenge [2d\]: d11
kmlck [2d\]: d11 c11
KlausB [?\]: Wiesel: it's a computer!
cjr [3d\]: a2 is mc artifact, because doesn't affect outcome much
BOThater36 [4d\]: Byo start taking fj
rsun [5d\]: a2 so if your opponent misclicks you win
challenge [2d\]: yea sry
]
;W[kb]WL[40]OW[5]C[ViaLactea [5k\]: b11 
wry [1d\]: l17 k18 n16 didn't look good for b, allowed w g14 
fluidistic [5k\]: N1
]
;B[kc]BL[553.078]C[pollux1: w 10 points ahead with komi
]
;W[la]WL[40]OW[5]C[rsun [5d\]: n1 can be played any time, no hurry
fluidistic [5k\]: then B10
jinroo [2d?\]: wry l17 k18 n16o16 is bad for w 
cjr [3d\]: not 10
challenge [2d\]: s7
fluidistic [5k\]: or S7
First [2k\]: b rack disciprine
]
;B[lc]BL[514.533]C[spacetime [4d\]: wow so passive
]
;W[jb]WL[40]OW[5]C[kmlck [2d\]: wow b avoided ko
kmlck [2d\]: omg
cjr [3d\]: M17 calm
Pandazilla [?\]: Anybody know if CS is running  on Remy's private 6-core PC again?
spacetime [4d\]: k18 says i win. does he?
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: panda, yes
gogonuts [5d\]: that ko looked bad for b
KlausB [?\]: Panda: apparently yes.
snowman [-\]: anybody know if fj is sober this time
wry [1d\]: jinroo: but then w gets g14 after cut
kmlck [2d\]: fj never sober
]
;B[ma]BL[476.119]C[Pandazilla [?\]: Thank you, Ootakamoku and KlausB
challenge [2d\]: lol
cjr [3d\]: ok, b losing...
First [2k\]: why not dual core?
]
;W[na]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: n19 looking good :-)
cjr [3d\]: s7 next i think
razornoir [5k\]: what about d13?
BreizhI [1k\]: 74+6.5 for w 80 for B pretty close
nhanh [3d\]: :)
agony [5k\]: uh oh, desperate bot
testgo1 [5k\]: b play time tesuji ?
DasWiesel [9k\]: n19 mc artifact as well?
kmlck [2d\]: s7 big
gogonuts [5d\]: s15 pretty big ko
spacetime [4d\]: i still count it veeery close, like 75 apiece
pollux1: not 80 for b
fluidistic [5k\]: bot making sure that if there's a ko, it will lose it due to less threats
]
;B[ee]BL[437.806]C[gogonuts [5d\]: lol, fluid
BOThater36 [4d\]: W + 3-5 pts
]
;W[fe]WL[40]OW[5]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: usually bots prepare for ko by using excess threats, so they have excacly the right number of threats to win the ko
Goselle [3k\]: the official term is timesuji
rs220675 [1d\]: I don't see a chance for black to win this barring a blunder from white
]
;B[ff]BL[418.365]C[oasthouse [-\]: f15 wrong?
gogonuts [5d\]: lol, oota
kmlck [2d\]: hm thats an interesting concept oota
fluidistic [5k\]: lol ootaka
BOThater36 [4d\]: E16? Game over
ViaLactea [5k\]: b11 
gogonuts [5d\]: excellent theory :-)
]
;W[rm]WL[40]OW[5]C[rs220675 [1d\]: b10
kmlck [2d\]: s7 obviously biger
fluidistic [5k\]: E16 now
Jazzman [1d\]: e16 d17 e17 f18 
]
;B[ms]BL[380.019]C[BreizhI [1k\]: Hm right B 70 not 80
]
;W[qm]WL[40]OW[5]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: w r7 here would be cool
kmlck [2d\]: wow
snowman [-\]: of course
]
;B[or]BL[360.653]C[BreizhI [1k\]: so +10 win for white
]
;W[pr]WL[40]OW[5]C[fluidistic [5k\]: double wow :D
ViaLactea [5k\]: overplay
kmlck [2d\]: r7 looks like overplay
BOThater36 [4d\]: Fj still care for 1 or 2 pts
gogonuts [5d\]: surprising trade
gogonuts [5d\]: bot wrong, imo
gogonuts [5d\]: back to q7 now :-)
First [2k\]: b rack disciprine
fluidistic [5k\]: now tenuki!
rsun [5d\]: p2 8 points
kmlck [2d\]: hm w q7 huge though
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: if b goes q7 now, then w gained
]
;B[pm]BL[322.063]C[oasthouse [-\]: bot will back down 
fluidistic [5k\]: LOL
oasthouse [-\]: hah
]
;W[os]WL[40]OW[5]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Easy for human to count the pts
snowman [-\]: :)
cjr [3d\]: yes, bot looks wrong, but why q2?
Penfold [5k\]: p7 even?
kmlck [2d\]: if not q2
rsun [5d\]: because b q2 sente
kmlck [2d\]: b will q2
kmlck [2d\]: then b would gain
rs220675 [1d\]: and white still has b10 or v11
BOThater36 [4d\]: Even on board now
kmlck [2d\]: but if w q2, q7 bigger than o1
cjr [3d\]: not clearly, because w also gets a big move
]
;B[sn]BL[283.762]C[kmlck [2d\]: so bot is probing in a botlike way
]
;W[sm]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: s15 last hotspot
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: this yose hurts
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: t8
rs220675 [1d\]: cs becomes angry^^
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: b gonna lay the ko to come back?
Yakami [1d\]: bot is just trying to create mistakes 
rsun [5d\]: remi has been speechless
DasWiesel [9k\]: maybe the aim of moves like n19 and T6 is to make white laugh so hard he will lose focus
kmlck [2d\]: w getting t9 would be huge
agony [5k\]: w+res
]
;B[ed]BL[245.224]C[tonberryto [6k\]: cs will resign soon, if it starts playing like t6
BOThater36 [4d\]: We won't see till end. Bot will resign
]
;W[dc]WL[40]OW[5]C[Ootakamoku [4d?\]: t6 was ligitimate move
rsun [5d\]: ton you missed n19
cjr [3d\]: no, t6 is correct with t8 follow-up
KlausB [?\]: SE again hugely off ...
]
;B[ec]BL[206.422]C[KlausB [?\]: b10
gogonuts [5d\]: 3 points in sente
]
;W[fb]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: still very close
fluidistic [5k\]: B10 or T9
rsun [5d\]: I have a brilliant idea - whenever se gives a wrong score we send wms an error report
KlausB [?\]: t9 is also huge
kmlck [2d\]: i have another idea
Pandazilla [?\]: rsun: lol
BOThater36 [4d\]: Gogo u r drunk
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: wonder if t9 bigger than f18
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: think it might have been
wry [1d\]: SE is never wrong
kmlck [2d\]: whenever se gives a false result we take a shot
gogonuts [5d\]: send him an error report when it gets the right score
]
;B[bj]BL[167.033]C[Jazzman [1d\]: lol gogo
spacetime [4d\]: t9t9t9t9t9
ViaLactea [5k\]: a13 ko
rsun [5d\]: but that's not harassing enough
kmlck [2d\]: t9 and win
First [2k\]: B+0.5
Ootakamoku [4d?\]: f18 was 6 points, t9 is worth.. 5 points without taking the ko into consideration
]
;W[sk]WL[40]OW[5]C[wry [1d\]: t9 seems enough to secure win
oasthouse [-\]: t9 to make zeroth line territory :)
KlausB [?\]: yes!!!
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I hav b down to 40%
Amoriel [1d\]: baam
gogonuts [5d\]: t9 is key
oasthouse [-\]: I know
gogonuts [5d\]: devalues s15
oasthouse [-\]: It's about 5 points
challenge [2d\]: bot res at 0
NiceGoAuth [-\]: nicego would have played t9 for b before:)
mmueller [1d?\]: Fuego thinks 54% for B
]
;B[ck]BL[128.61]C[kmlck [2d\]: t6 bad if you arent gonna play t8
NiceGoAuth [-\]: interesting
First [2k\]: w+1.5
fluidistic [5k\]: fuego include the komi?
gogonuts [5d\]: i bo with "close" :-)
spacetime [4d\]: t6 was really bad by b
]
;W[bl]WL[40]OW[5]C[mmueller [1d?\]: 6.5 komi, is it correct?
fluidistic [5k\]: A13
BreizhI [1k\]: yes
KlausB [?\]: MM: yes
gogonuts [5d\]: looks like cs somehow missed the value of s15
]
;B[fm]BL[92.55]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: W + 5-7 point after komi
]
;W[em]WL[40]OW[5]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: nicego playing in line with both players at the moment 42%
kmlck [2d\]: gogo bots cant calcute values of ko
oliolioli [2k\]: white loving the first line..
challenge [2d\]: a11
gogonuts [5d\]: ko does not compute?
]
;B[ag]BL[64.828]C[lepore [1d\]: w+3.5
rs220675 [1d\]: k3
kmlck [2d\]: since they cant get exact values, they either ignore the ko or just quickly win it ignoring big threats
mmueller [1d?\]: Fuego is confused about top left still
fluidistic [5k\]: cs might be too
]
;W[de]WL[40]OW[5]C[kmlck [2d\]: so we can say they are "scared" of ko s
replicator [2d\]: yes, this 1st line game show all of the proverbs are worthless
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 85% sure about top left here
]
;B[ak]BL[26.454]C[gogonuts [5d\]: very close for w i think, though that is the least probable result against a bot :_)
eww: a 18?
]
;W[al]WL[40]OW[5]C[rsun [5d\]: scared is close to sacred
mmueller [1d?\]: Fuego nly 74% sure there :(
]
;B[qj]BL[7.06]C[spacetime [4d\]: serious nail-biter here. I told u guys it was close
rsun [5d\]: 74% sure that b is dead or alive?
]
;W[sj]WL[40]OW[5]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Bot felt losing when he play c17
mmueller [1d?\]: 74% dead, 26% alive :)
kmlck [2d\]: mmueller are you author of fuego?
mmueller [1d?\]: yes
Penfold [5k\]: g5 profit for b
rsun [5d\]: sounds like quantum mechanics
gogonuts [5d\]: classic bot halfpointer not out of the question though
astralth [1k?\]: shrodinger's corner
mmueller [1d?\]: statistics over all playouts
First [2k\]: zen is the strongest right now?
]
;B[rl]BL[40]OB[5]C[Pandazilla [?\]: zenith5 sees it close
]
;W[sl]WL[40]OW[5]C[spacetime [4d\]: what's the zen-cs head to head record?
kmlck [2d\]: cs might be stronger then zen if its on a good hardware
rsun [5d\]: cs better recently
fluidistic [5k\]: zen leads I believe, but they played on different hardware
fluidistic [5k\]: unfair comparison.  
rsun [5d\]: cs won UEC cup twice
]
;B[aj]BL[40]OB[5]C[replicator [2d\]: Zenith5?  Can I get a free upgrade from Zenith 4?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: hmm mmueller: I have 73% white there but I calculated from -100% to +100% , so we have probably the same?!
guest19: seems cs would be at least one stone stronger if it's endgame wouldn't be so bad
]
;W[df]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i think you cant even get a discounted upgrade
KlausB [?\]: j14, k3
KlausB [?\]: sry: h14
rsun [5d\]: remi should give people in this room discounts
]
;B[dg]BL[40]OB[5]C[RemiCoulom [3k?\]: Was away for a while. CS is losing.
Asmodien [?\]: w win?
]
;W[fk]WL[40]OW[5]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Next show case: rsun vs gin
ViaLactea [5k\]: h14 
testgo1 [5k\]: nice game
rsun [5d\]: that's much lower quality
cjr [3d\]: how much stronger would CS be on better hardware?
kmlck [2d\]: at least 1 stone
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: win rate around 40%, but it overestimates chances in the top left.
oasthouse [-\]: w+4.5
Pandazilla [?\]: game should be over
]
;B[fj]BL[40]OB[5]C[rsun [5d\]: L10 followed by 2 33's was the spotlight of this game
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I have 30%
]
;W[lo]WL[40]OW[5]C[mmueller [1d?\]: If I add two stones to kill top left for Fuego, then B is down to 45% here
fluidistic [5k\]: so cs has same problem as fuego and nicego
gogonuts [5d\]: funny how bots stumble over basic L-shape corner
snowman [-\]: i have a 100% white win
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: NiceGo is stronger than CS :-)
ViaLactea [5k\]: h14 first
cjr [3d\]: no, H12 is my key point in this game
]
;B[lp]BL[40]OB[5]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: :) dream dream dream
rsun [5d\]: is nicego ranked bot?
]
;W[jq]WL[40]OW[5]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: 1k
fluidistic [5k\]: is nicego open source?
PinotNoir [1d\]: w win 0.5?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: yes
fluidistic [5k\]: nice
spacetime [4d\]: yeah i think h12 was the losing move. if h12 @ s13, bot looks very good
gogonuts [5d\]: about 2.5 w?
joachim [?\]: yes gogo
fluidistic [5k\]: did you use pachi and or fuego's code to  help you?
]
;B[jr]BL[40]OB[5]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: To me 42% is pretty low. If bot says 60% I feel 50/50 :)
rsun [5d\]: why is there a 3d+ gap between open source and commerical?
]
;W[ql]WL[40]OW[5]C[First [2k\]: W+1.5
mmueller [1d?\]: 37%
rsun [5d\]: it's not like they have some new algorithm that is not published
fluidistic [5k\]: good question rsun
cjr [3d\]: commercial authors have more time to spend on their products?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I we'd know we would close it :)
Koons [1k\]: was the second game close too?
mmueller [1d?\]: Big patterns is missing for Fuego
kmlck [2d\]: rsun played bots so much he can write a bot
Donker [9k\]: who is fj?
]
;B[go]BL[40]OB[5]C[Koons [1k\]: i know first wa
mmueller [1d?\]: Also, stronger playouts, and lots of details
]
;W[pl]WL[40]OW[5]C[fluidistic [5k\]: open source programmers should team up like Stockfish's programmers and steal number 1 stop in a few months
gogonuts [5d\]: done
wry [1d\]: ouch
Leonidas [2k\]: over
NiceGoAuth [-\]: we have other problems, big patterns are working fine
MrMoto [1d\]: hmmm
mommom [2k\]: ?
fluidistic [5k\]: spot*
nhanh [3d\]: omg
spacetime [4d\]: gg
rsun [5d\]: kmlck I actually thought about that, but I couldn't even understand the code of idiotbot, so I gave up
Leonidas [2k\]: black ran out of battery
kmlck [2d\]: lol
spacetime [4d\]: HUMANITY
kmlck [2d\]: idiot bot is complex coding
Koons [1k\]: eh?
kmlck [2d\]: hard to make a bot play so bad
]
;B[ok]BL[40]OB[5]C[GoldenBear [2d\]: yes, that's cs way of saying "I resign"
]
;W[ol]WL[40]OW[5]C[fluidistic [5k\]: there is randombot
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 20%
kmlck [2d\]: 4 letters PAIN
rsun [5d\]: it was either randombot or idiotbot I don't remember
MrMoto [1d\]: это катастроф
testgo1 [5k\]: what a move
BOThater36 [4d\]: NiceGo. I WANT to get a bot win percentage tool like u have :)
]
;B[hp]BL[40]OB[5]C[challenge [2d\]: p8 must be p7
Koons [1k\]: black better get sente to eat g :)
]
;W[jo]WL[40]OW[5]C[mmueller [1d?\]: Fuego resigns :)
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
fluidistic [5k\]: BH, download pachi or nicego or fuego i guess
rs220675 [1d\]: @remi: will you publish a rating chart like for the first game, again?
First [2k\]: w+7.5 now
]
;B[jf]BL[40]OB[5]C[rs220675 [1d\]: a crazystone analysis
challenge [2d\]: lol
mmueller [1d?\]: Yes I loved seeing the Crazy analysis
Mneme [2k\]: It was less fun than previous game
spacetime [4d\]: p11
oasthouse [-\]: o9
Jazzman [1d\]: ?
gogonuts [5d\]: hater will say: 2i said it all the time" :-)
]
;W[nk]WL[40]OW[5]C[gogonuts [5d\]: cmon
snowman [-\]: why not P10
First [2k\]: w+ 9.5 now
BOThater36 [4d\]:  I just need a pair of dice and throw them 20 million times
rsun [5d\]: mmueller is it hard to get funding nowadays?
kmlck [2d\]: pre resign sequence
Donker [9k\]: what is cs doing?  Kamakaziing?
]
;B[ab]BL[40]OB[5]C[PinotNoir [1d\]: CS's yose is horrible...
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 2%
]
;W[ba]WL[40]OW[5]C[fluidistic [5k\]: lol 2%
spacetime [4d\]: ooh yeah p10 woulda been it
gogonuts [5d\]: lol w
gogonuts [5d\]: ah i see
NiceGoAuth [-\]: ok, cs also trouble with top left
rsun [5d\]: cs wants us to feel we are all better than itself
gogonuts [5d\]: b played there
GoldenBear [2d\]: cs has already resigned. It just doesn't realize it yet :-)
oliolioli [2k\]: bots supposed to be good at yose?
rs220675 [1d\]: Se says, black by 10 :P
mmueller [1d?\]: rsun- always hard to get funding...
fluidistic [5k\]: corners
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: Thanks
spacetime [4d\]: congrats!
Hannoskaj [?\]: Congrats fj
Penfold [5k\]: I predicted the worst  move of he game :)
gogonuts [5d\]: glückwunsch
Donker [9k\]: great game
RemiCoulom [3k?\]: congratulations.
challenge [2d\]: gg
Mneme [2k\]: nice game
Leonidas [2k\]: well done fj!
fj [6d\]: thanks
snowman [-\]: gg
Mneme [2k\]: congrats
gogonuts [5d\]: hard work
chella [1k\]: congrats fj
NiceGoAuth [-\]: thanks a lot!
Schachus12 [10k\]: grats
keiler [?\]: Schönes Spiel :-)
Jazzman [1d\]: Glückwunsh
BOThater36 [4d\]: Very entertaining thx
Idn [3d\]: JayJay
fj [6d\]: indeed... tough game
mmueller [1d?\]: Congratulations FJ
rsun [5d\]: fj, you found the "simple and clean" way to beat bots
testgo1 [5k\]: terrible black yose
joachim [?\]: feinfein
Amenophis [5k?\]: thanks fj and remi
PinotNoir [1d\]: well done, FJ, tough game
fj [6d\]: haga
fj [6d\]: haha
oasthouse [-\]: black yose was OK
GoldenBear [2d\]: Congratulations to FJ!
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: Impressed... 
agony [5k\]: thanks fj
rsun [5d\]: see, fights are not necessary at all :)
Donker [9k\]: Amazing programming Remi
LinuxGooo [5k?\]: congrats to Franz-Josef 
Falcon89 [5k\]:   gg    fj
Penfold [5k\]: congrats fj
First [2k\]: fj should be 7d'
NiceGoAuth [-\]: congrats, even if I feel with the bots:)
fj [6d\]: rsun, don't make fun of me
Zweistein [7k\]: gratulations fj
gogonuts [5d\]: opening still problematic, but b won on his own strength, not bot mistakes
rsun [5d\]: I'm not making fun of you :o
challenge [2d\]: gogo so b won?
gogonuts [5d\]: sry
agony [5k\]: w won.
fj [6d\]: actually I was sure I lost when the center ko was settled
gogonuts [5d\]: i mean w
gogonuts [5d\]: i can never tell b and w apart
gogonuts [5d\]: same problem with left and right :-)
gogonuts [5d\]: top bottom is a little better :-)
oliolioli [2k\]: common problem amongst go player..
agony [5k\]: why didn't you play more ko threats around q11 p12?
BOThater36 [4d\]: You don't need to play ko to win fj
wry [1d\]: easy to remember, w is the left one :)
GoldenBear [2d\]: And a final word from the sponsor: Thanks for watching and please visit us at go.codecentric.de!
NiceGoAuth [-\]: will we get a cs analysis?
fj [6d\]: thanks GoldenBear
cjr [3d\]: is there a prize?
Hannoskaj [?\]: Thanks to the sponsor, too :)
NiceGoAuth [-\]: thanks
])
