(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[3600]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
PW[miao]PB[Zen19X]WR[6d]DT[2016-09-18]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Zen19X [-\]: GTP Engine for Zen19X (black): Zen version 12.0
miao [6d\]: gg
gghideki [?\]: gg
]RE[B+4.50]
;B[pd]BL[3570.696]
;W[dp]WL[3596.675]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Go miao! We want a 2-2 before game 5!
GoIngo [?\]: Hello, Golden Bear!
]
;B[qp]BL[3518.496]C[GoldenBear [1d\]: Greetings from the sponsor:Visit go.codecentric.de
]
;W[dc]WL[3574.26]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Thanks to codecentric, for this year and the previous ones!
GoldenBear [1d\]: Hello Ingo! Hello Hideki!
GoIngo [?\]: Are you on your bus, Golden Bear?
]
;B[oq]BL[3467.817]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: with D17 w can split at r10
gghideki [?\]: hi
GoldenBear [1d\]: Yes. We are at Chemnitz now. On our way to Munich. 
]
;W[qf]WL[3541.316]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: but r14 also fine
GoldenBear [1d\]: And we are just praying the rosary :-)
GoIngo [?\]: For whom?
]
;B[nc]BL[3421.363]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: s16?
GoldenBear [1d\]: All who need it - so everybody.
GoIngo [?\]: thx
]
;W[qo]WL[3509.565]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: tricky
Amenophis [2d?\]: where????
gogonuts [3d?\]: lukas pumped up :-)
GoIngo [?\]: is this some modern opening?
Hannoskaj [?\]: I must say that I find the somewhat new r14 surprising. I would really have thought that r11 was too nice a reply, but pros think otherwise.
gogonuts [3d?\]: yes ingo
GoIngo [?\]: played by the pros?
]
;B[po]BL[3368.163]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: I seem to remember it, yes.
gogonuts [3d?\]: yes, this is also an alphago effect
asdewq [-\]: r6 q6 
gogonuts [3d?\]: not much choice here
]
;W[qn]WL[3466.227]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: b can push on the outside
]
;B[rp]BL[3341.807]
;W[pj]WL[3449.32]
;B[de]BL[3322.439]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: w fixes at q6?
Hannoskaj [?\]: Would that be sente?
gogonuts [3d?\]: not absolutely
gogonuts [3d?\]: but without it, the right side is still wide open
Hannoskaj [?\]: And b q6 is also almost sente…
gogonuts [3d?\]: and b can do worse
gogonuts [3d?\]: like q9
miao [6d\]: wanna play fast here
]
;W[cg]WL[3274.722]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Thanks gogonuts.
]
;B[cc]BL[3307.766]
;W[gc]WL[3270.948]C[summer100 [2d?\]: is miao pro?
GoIngo [?\]: no top german amateur
gogonuts [3d?\]: no
]
;B[dd]BL[3292.875]C[miao [6d\]: strange choice maybe
]
;W[db]WL[3265.848]C[GoIngo [?\]: German Champ 2013-2015
miao [6d\]: c15 was a bit mroe solid
summer100 [2d?\]: ok
]
;B[fd]BL[3278.144]C[miao [6d\]: *more
]
;W[gd]WL[3239.04]
;B[ge]BL[3277.608]
;W[he]WL[3237.447]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: lukas shouldn't worry for the bot :-)
]
;B[hf]BL[3262.838]C[miao [6d\]: iyama yuuta move
]
;W[ie]WL[3228.313]C[miao [6d\]: in general i like blacks idea heare
]
;B[if]BL[3233.994]C[miao [6d\]: o17 devalues the upper side 
gogonuts [3d?\]: good grief lukas
]
;W[je]WL[3206.556]C[miao [6d\]: so he pushes to make w overconcentrated
]
;B[dh]BL[3200.576]C[miao [6d\]: j14 was maybe one push too much
miao [6d\]: flexible idea
GoIngo [?\]: optimism in White's camp  :-)
miao [6d\]: never sa this move before witht he exchanges starting with f16
gogonuts [3d?\]: c6, maybe
miao [6d\]: i am tempted to play d10
]
;W[dj]WL[3096.105]C[miao [6d\]: r17 seems like an interesting move 
]
;B[ch]BL[3161.094]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: i don't see great value in d10
gogonuts [3d?\]: w has too many holes to fix
poirette [1k\]: D10 looks to me a bit like a thankyou move
]
;W[jq]WL[2968.022]C[miao [6d\]: k3 is a big point for both
miao [6d\]: i don´t wanna let whiet get it
gogonuts [3d?\]: that much is true :-)
Medieval [3d\]: force Zen to take territory, good
miao [6d\]: c6 is my next move in this area
trohde [?\]: guess miao means he doesn’t want to let BLACK get it
miao [6d\]: after r17 i weaken my left even more and also l17 will be annoying
]
;B[cn]BL[3112.982]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: zen parsed the chat
GoIngo [?\]: maybe
trohde [?\]: LOL
GoIngo [?\]: would technically be not so difficult
GoIngo [?\]: chat with typical chat grammar is easier than normal language
t3t [1d\]: c8  the only shape move?
MaLa [2k?\]: not via kgsgtp
]
;W[co]WL[2889.55]C[GoIngo [?\]: what do you means, MaLa?
miao [6d\]: now d10 get´s under pressure
MaLa [2k?\]: there is no command to read the chat in kgsgtp
miao [6d\]: that is the big drawback of k3
miao [6d\]: it was safer to play c6 instead
GoIngo [?\]: ok, I meant another level of "tecvhnical"
]
;B[dn]BL[3074.52]C[GoIngo [?\]: technical
miao [6d\]: but after b plays k3 i feel a bit cramped
]
;W[fp]WL[2878.021]C[miao [6d\]: d8 here is strong
]
;B[ek]BL[3044.445]
;W[bj]WL[2860.932]C[miao [6d\]: this is a doubble edged move by black
t3t [1d\]: now we will know if there is life after death
GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
]
;B[bi]BL[2996.605]C[GoIngo [?\]: When does life start? 
GoIngo [?\]: When the children are out and the dog  is dead  :-)
]
;W[ej]WL[2833.386]C[miao [6d\]: now black can peep
]
;B[fk]BL[2961.956]C[gonmf [-\]: very nice Ingo
GoIngo [?\]: it is not exactly new ...
]
;W[dl]WL[2819.588]C[miao [6d\]: now i will ask for consessions in w´s shape or in helping mine
GoIngo [?\]: It was the Rabbi's point in his discussion woith a bio-chemnist
]
;B[em]BL[2909.086]
;W[eh]WL[2792.216]C[miao [6d\]: dangerous
miao [6d\]: the critical move is g11
]
;B[eg]BL[2872.81]C[miao [6d\]: but blacks aji is bad
gogonuts [3d?\]: the w group is not happy
]
;W[fg]WL[2759.676]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: the bot won the fuseki for the 4th straight game
miao [6d\]: e13 helps my shape
]
;B[ei]BL[2830.926]
;W[fj]WL[2717.64]
;B[fh]BL[2830.476]
;W[gh]WL[2715.007]C[miao [6d\]: i wonder if i should have played b8 after e7
]
;B[gg]BL[2789.867]C[GoIngo [?\]: CrazyStone thinks this position is balanced
]
;W[bl]WL[2644.342]C[miao [6d\]: let´s still do it
Hannoskaj [?\]: Any peaks?
miao [6d\]: i saced some points on the leftto help my group
GoIngo [?\]: no bell-shape and around 50 +-1 %
]
;B[bm]BL[2743.762]C[GoIngo [?\]: I man: bell-shape
miao [6d\]: this move strikes me as really dangerous for blcak
GoIngo [?\]: mean
miao [6d\]: *black
Hannoskaj [?\]: Got it, thanks!
gogonuts [3d?\]: looks like w has to cut
GoIngo [?\]: CS does not understand b7 ...
gogonuts [3d?\]: b7 is the fighting move
gogonuts [3d?\]: i wonder how b will counter e8 - maybe at g4
Guest2d [1d\]: e8 f8?
gogonuts [3d?\]: possible, but then w cuts
]
;W[el]WL[2421.976]C[miao [6d\]: i will play it clear
Hannoskaj [?\]: We'll see right now.
]
;B[gm]BL[2704.049]C[miao [6d\]: f11 g7 might have been stronger though
]
;W[fl]WL[2399.856]C[miao [6d\]: good move
gogonuts [3d?\]: hm true - b g7 was the rational response
]
;B[bo]BL[2660.606]
;W[bp]WL[2389.495]
;B[go]BL[2643.311]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: b looks like finishing in sente on the left
pokamon [2k\]: if gote white is ahead?
gogonuts [3d?\]: well, not with what that gote would to to ws left :-)
Mneme [2k\]: if white live he will be good but will he live ?
gogonuts [3d?\]: w will live
Mneme [2k\]: even if he answer to this move ?
]
;W[ao]WL[2214.526]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: but i think b will do nicely, chosing how to pick apart the right
gogonuts [3d?\]: oh
miao [6d\]: on g4 i can play g3
gogonuts [3d?\]: ignoring g5 is really unexpected
]
;B[gp]BL[2603.759]
;W[gq]WL[2209.973]C[GoIngo [?\]: a5 was one of the top candidatesfor CS
miao [6d\]: still bllack got some nice play here
]
;B[hq]BL[2568.769]
;W[fq]WL[2207.11]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: bs position is becoming like a vice
gogonuts [3d?\]: it will get hard for w not to get pushed around
]
;B[iq]BL[2524.402]C[pokamon [2k\]: j3 looks not human
]
;W[jp]WL[2174.503]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: could have been me :-)
Entity [1d\]: I'd play j3 here
]
;B[io]BL[2509.594]
;W[pn]WL[2165.305]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: natural to disconnect
miao [6d\]: i don´t want black to profit while attacking there
asdewq [-\]: according to commercial version of Zen, a5 brought an end to a 50:50 game... now it's 57%
gogonuts [3d?\]: q6 is fighting spirit
]
;B[kn]BL[2461.872]C[GoIngo [?\]: @asde; CS thinks similar
asdewq [-\]: similar minds think alike
GoIngo [?\]: but it realized only after a5
]
;W[oo]WL[2139.869]C[miao [6d\]: n3?
miao [6d\]: what is black´s plan
gogonuts [3d?\]: uh oh
gogonuts [3d?\]: p5 seems too much
asdewq [-\]: and it's growing. 62%
gogonuts [3d?\]: the bottom can fall
]
;B[no]BL[2411.056]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: o5 looks natural
gogonuts [3d?\]: funny lukas didn't expect it
t3t [1d\]: take the stone
gogonuts [3d?\]: q4 for q3 helps b
t3t [1d\]: but w has to fix his shape
Souba [4d\]: o4 ?
Hench [3k\]: why, i never think of Zen as 'wrong'
]
;W[lo]WL[2028.957]C[miao [6d\]: good move
pokamon [2k\]: w has to give up k3 stones?
Zonked [3d\]: hench, because zen bluffs alot, but it takes rather strong players to catch the bluffs
gogonuts [3d?\]: is lukas praising zen or himself?
Zonked [3d\]: praising o5
gogonuts [3d?\]: i guess
]
;B[nn]BL[2360.724]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: but he really should have expected it
Hench [3k\]: logically, the right move is towards ko-evolution
]
;W[ln]WL[1994.632]C[miao [6d\]: fighting a little
gogonuts [3d?\]: :-)
t3t [1d\]: what does CS say
]
;B[ko]BL[2314.692]C[Hench [3k\]: confused, is there space?
miao [6d\]: asking b to fix his shape so i can fix mine
t3t [1d\]: by the way, what rank can CS reach on KGS?
GoIngo [?\]: now 56 % for Black; almost all moves expected
gogonuts [3d?\]: L5 is nasty
Zonked [3d\]: probably not the answer w wanted
gogonuts [3d?\]: cut above or below
Hench [3k\]: thru 'middle'? ;-)
Zonked [3d\]: b can hane at one end or another for a cut, regardless what w plays
Hench [3k\]: right
]
;W[lp]WL[1931.613]C[Zonked [3d\]: unless w uyses some very expensive o4 or some such aji
Hench [3k\]: natur of 'wall
Zonked [3d\]: w seriously claiminghe can live here?
gogonuts [3d?\]: lukas says: bring it on :-)
Hench [3k\]: funnily claiming it
]
;B[mq]BL[2276.64]C[Zonked [3d\]: b agreed it seems
Hench [3k\]: humour, vast unrating
]
;W[lm]WL[1898.941]C[Hench [3k\]: but seems lost
miao [6d\]: n3 is a nice way to do so
Hench [3k\]: ;-
gogonuts [3d?\]: n3 removed all chance of eyes
miao [6d\]: o4 remains as an aji though
]
;B[hk]BL[2232.634]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: o4 is expert aji :-)
gogonuts [3d?\]: uh
Hench [3k\]: here is the thing you mentioned
gogonuts [3d?\]: b still has a6 ...
asdewq [-\]: o7 the only move now
Hench [3k\]: so, b6 is b-listed?
]
;W[bn]WL[1835.941]C[Hench [3k\]: ah
miao [6d\]: this is big
gogonuts [3d?\]: not even a proper connection
]
;B[nl]BL[2201.388]C[miao [6d\]: also next i can use b++
Hench [3k\]: surely,..
miao [6d\]: b´s weaknesses to help my group
Hench [3k\]: but, m7 is a cemetary?
gogonuts [3d?\]: b is great at not making ws troubles his own
Hench [3k\]: gotcha
gogonuts [3d?\]: that's the mistake humans often make in good attacking positions
miao [6d\]: maybe
]
;W[lk]WL[1749.544]C[Hench [3k\]: zen makes plans, and they are real ones
gogonuts [3d?\]: the opposite - he has no plans :-)
Hench [3k\]: you reckon?
gogonuts [3d?\]: it just looks like it had perfect plans
]
;B[pk]BL[2161.16]
;W[qk]WL[1745.559]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: there is no "reason" behind the moves
Hench [3k\]: reaction, sure, it's in the moment, but the next reaction 'after' that? 
]
;B[ok]BL[2137.326]
;W[qj]WL[1734.844]C[t3t [1d\]: what is cs estimate
Hench [3k\]: it's like a moment of 'the future'
Hannoskaj [?\]: You could argue that all the statistical information used to shape the tree and playouts, like AMAF, are the equivalent of a plan. Not set in stone, of course.
Zonked [3d\]: zen does keep the part of the mcts tree that is is still valid, ie when w plays what zen predicts, zen doesnt have to recalculate everything
]
;B[kl]BL[2102.702]C[Hench [3k\]: like, w's assured death
asdewq [-\]: 63% right now
gogonuts [3d?\]: p9 cost b points if there is nop strong attack
]
;W[ll]WL[1710.632]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: so there probably is a strong attack :-)
GoIngo [?\]: my cs thinks 56-57 % for black
Zonked [3d\]: I dont think zen is negotiating here
miao [6d\]: maybe n7 here was better
Zonked [3d\]: this will end as do or die
Hench [3k\]: maybe, has secret #hostage
miao [6d\]: but seemed risky
gogonuts [3d?\]: boshi time?
]
;B[ql]BL[2053.57]
;W[rl]WL[1706.927]C[Zonked [3d\]: r8 is probably bad news for w
Hench [3k\]: w plays for no bounty
]
;B[pl]BL[2024.89]C[polubolaka: time for q4 for w
gogonuts [3d?\]: i don't see waht these b moves do
Zonked [3d\]: these exchanges are the type b makes, when it feels relatively confident it can kill, offering a trade instead
Guest2d [1d\]: b is happy with 63%
gogonuts [3d?\]: bots still like to indulge in inrelavant forcing moves now and then
Zonked [3d\]: just gives w a choice where to die
Hench [3k\]: yeah, which means like 'no real trade'
gogonuts [3d?\]: lol
]
;W[km]WL[1659.693]C[Zonked [3d\]: hench, thats the way humans would interpret it
ibd2 [?\]: Which groups are candidates for dying?
Hench [3k\]: i know, lol ;-)
Zonked [3d\]: but imo, I see zen and other strong bots offering those silly trades, when they are certain of their kill
polubolaka: q5
Zonked [3d\]: j7?
Hench [3k\]: its like language, 'oh you wnat to caryy on?'
]
;B[im]BL[1974.045]
;W[rm]WL[1654.785]C[miao [6d\]: maybe r17 was better
polubolaka: n10 
Hench [3k\]: hit the invisible eyes
]
;B[ni]BL[1936.554]
;W[li]WL[1644.739]C[Zonked [3d\]: r12?
Hench [3k\]: r12 predatory
]
;B[kj]BL[1894.768]
;W[lj]WL[1641.334]C[Zonked [3d\]: to get a bit more thicknesa and then play l13
Hench [3k\]: this, is omnivorous
miao [6d\]: black controling the game after a5 i think
Zonked [3d\]: r12 cant even live, its just to force w to give b forcing moves
Hench [3k\]: y
miao [6d\]: and white didn´t fight very hardly against that
Hench [3k\]: like spaghetti#
]
;B[oh]BL[1856.657]C[Hench [3k\]: even r12 is p12
Guest2d [1d\]: the thing is, w didn't make any point with M4 group
gogonuts [3d?\]: something sadistic about bs play
Hench [3k\]: ;00
Hench [3k\]: don't make me laugh, or cry
GoIngo [?\]: my interpretation of CS analysis is that white is on a good track
Zonked [3d\]: this feels like a landslide, in the literal sense, things keep moving forward with unstoppable force, while all arround you have collateral damage
]
;W[ij]WL[1562.996]C[Hench [3k\]: which is.. determined by the other playuer...
gogonuts [3d?\]: but zen showed in game 1 that it can also dilly dally away good positions
ibd2 [?\]: Woah, j10
Hench [3k\]: w attack
Zonked [3d\]: j10 is sort of shape point..
miao [6d\]: white needs some activity
gogonuts [3d?\]: he's right
]
;B[qh]BL[1805.038]
;W[rh]WL[1559.618]C[miao [6d\]: this is a little ugly though
Hench [3k\]:  at my level, i only just found out about these phantom lines up and down the board
Hench [3k\]: ;-)
]
;B[ik]BL[1751.347]C[ibd2 [?\]: Phantom lines?
Hench [3k\]: yes, as in 'without corners' as such
gogonuts [3d?\]: sticks
Hench [3k\]: i.e p12
maproomad [-\]: baguettes
Zonked [3d\]: I would love saying, someone pranked hench
Hench [3k\]: which is about the line, not r12
Hench [3k\]: ;-)
]
;W[jk]WL[1480.927]C[ibd2 [?\]: I don't understand
Hench [3k\]: board edge
Hench [3k\]: gives a bit of lib, which reflects on the moves
Hench [3k\]: imho
]
;B[gi]BL[1699.308]C[polubolaka: g11 was deep
gogonuts [3d?\]: g11 is almost like it's bored
GoIngo [?\]: g11 was second choice of CS
Zonked [3d\]: zen can be frustratingly pragmatic, my own playstyle doesnt work at all against zne, that is overplay until opponent falls for it.
gogonuts [3d?\]: lol, zonked
gogonuts [3d?\]: yes, excatly the wrong style
polubolaka: zonked play on tygem
Hench [3k\]: but, you adapt to the tree branch style
gogonuts [3d?\]: zonked preys on human frailty :-)
Hench [3k\]: ;y
]
;W[qg]WL[1357.942]C[Hench [3k\]: i am prey
miao [6d\]: my group is safer now
gogonuts [3d?\]: zonkprey?
miao [6d\]: while i still look at o4 with half an eye
]
;B[kg]BL[1655.734]C[Hench [3k\]: i know i know
Zonked [3d\]: zen says the attack isnt over
disu [4k\]: game over,white wins 20points
Hench [3k\]: hh
gosei [2d\]: disu,ineteresting judgement:)
disu [4k\]: black wins 20 points
gogonuts [3d?\]: w has some eye potential so zen isn't going for the kill
gogonuts [3d?\]: more like a bridge troll
]
;W[mh]WL[1298.583]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: "pay me with your top territory"
Hench [3k\]: zen is counting on b8 death
]
;B[of]BL[1628.283]C[Zonked [3d\]: w should take local life
asdewq [-\]: zen finally moved from 63 to 65%
]
;W[lf]WL[1263.405]C[Zonked [3d\]: and if w cant find local life, the position is real bad cause all this running wont do him much good
gogonuts [3d?\]: this will not be accepted
Hench [3k\]: seems afriad to put foot down
miao [6d\]: l27 looks huge
Zonked [3d\]: m14 looks dead
gogonuts [3d?\]: l27 is indeed a monster
Hench [3k\]: themn make n10 eye
]
;B[kf]BL[1578.75]
;W[ke]WL[1255.857]C[miao [6d\]: this is a tough move
Zonked [3d\]: m14 looks like it ends up asa  sacrifice, just very expensive sacrifice
miao [6d\]: i feel alive already
gogonuts [3d?\]: lol
miao [6d\]: and he is helping my shape
]
;B[le]BL[1528.995]C[Hench [3k\]: such a great fish, shame to see it swim so far...
Zonked [3d\]: m15 looks like zen is serious about kill
polubolaka: ko
gosei [2d\]: lukas,so confident
]
;W[nf]WL[1214.093]C[polubolaka: g11 must have meant sth after all
GoRoGoRo [?\]: m15 = ajissimo
Hench [3k\]: 'dimensionality' - you forgot
Zonked [3d\]: o13 would be funny
Guest2d [1d\]: w need more cash can't affort expensive things
Zonked [3d\]: o13 n13 o15 n15 n14 ko.. or o13 n14 m12 cut
]
;B[mf]BL[1479.782]C[Hench [3k\]: you know it will be...
]
;W[ng]WL[1200.263]C[Zonked [3d\]: oh, look, m14 died!
GoldenBear [1d\]: Ingo, I have lost track - what is the evaluation of CS?
GoIngo [?\]: CS more or less supports Lukas' optimism
]
;B[pf]BL[1448.487]C[Zonked [3d\]: scary ko
GoIngo [?\]: it was 55 % a few moves ago
Zonked [3d\]: w should have lots of threats tho
groobiest: r12 makes itself felt
GoIngo [?\]: now it slided up to 59 forblack
GoIngo [?\]: but the curve in the histogram becomes interesting
gogonuts [3d?\]: cs is not as good in fighting as zen
asdewq [-\]: what does histogram show right now?
asdewq [-\]: 65% is zen's wr
Zonked [3d\]: hmm, actually, n15 isnt even ko
GoIngo [?\]: a growing extra peak for Black
GoldenBear [1d\]: For sure there are outcomes where the white dragom dies...
gogonuts [3d?\]: lol, ingo
Zonked [3d\]: or maybe it is
t3t [1d\]: could commercial CS reach 6d on kgs?
Zonked [3d\]: t3t, sure
gogonuts [3d?\]: that peak is the w center group croaking
GoldenBear [1d\]: That may be a chance for Lukas.
GoIngo [?\]: the central peak is at 0 the side peak at +70
Zonked [3d\]: :)
GoldenBear [1d\]: That is good news for Miao.
asdewq [-\]: yep, that must be it :)
Zonked [3d\]: easy enough to rationalize that one
GoIngo [?\]: I think so
gogonuts [3d?\]: maybe you're right GB, sell zen a false hope :-)
]
;W[ld]WL[984.609]C[Zonked [3d\]: doesnt helkp much that the center peak is at 0..
gogonuts [3d?\]: but the times that zen overattacked are really in the past
t3t [1d\]: w could not win in yose if its even now
]
;B[me]BL[1406.474]C[t3t [1d\]: so w'd better winning
]
;W[ne]WL[981.066]C[gosei [2d\]: sure,he can just make ko;)
GoIngo [?\]: a pity that I cannot insert the histogram here in chat
Zonked [3d\]: I honestly think zens yose is better than miaos, zen is is just overconfident in its own counting.
gogonuts [3d?\]: lukas has done well in the endgames
gogonuts [3d?\]: it's all turned on it's head in this series
GoldenBear [1d\]: Ican write some lines, as our bus is stopped right now. We will go on soon - and then my connectiom will be sloppy again.
]
;B[nd]BL[1360.858]
;W[md]WL[976.653]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: bots are supposed to get stronger as the game progresses
Zonked [3d\]: ya, but thats because zen is throwing points away left and right, since it thinks it will win by 0.5 opint anywaysy, and then miao pulls suprise 1-2 points from somewher and zen loses
]
;B[lg]BL[1340.051]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Does miao think he can live locally and just forced to help top territory?
Zonked [3d\]: he will try to live locally
Zonked [3d\]: he is zilion points behind if he doesnt
gogonuts [3d?\]: but that last 1 or 2 points that zen wants to keep is a tough job :-)
Zonked [3d\]: top is no copensation
GoIngo [?\]: CS: 55 % for Black
GoIngo [?\]: central peak in White's favour
NiceGoAuth [-\]: NiceGo 51% for B
Hannoskaj [?\]: Sure, I was just wondering if I was misssing some strange connection idea.
]
;W[ih]WL[910.688]C[GoldenBear [1d\]: That is the plan. When Zen thinks the black dragon is dead and starts throwing oints away, Zen will lose when it cannot kill the group.
Guest2d [1d\]: strong move!
gogonuts [3d?\]: right
asdewq [-\]: p15 q15 p16 p17 n18 was the best for w
polubolaka: is this a sponsored human-bot challenge?
asdewq [-\]: securing top teritory in sente
]
;B[ig]BL[1296.925]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Like that…
GoIngo [?\]: yes
GoIngo [?\]: sponsored by codecentric company
polubolaka: fj dickhut got exchanged?
GoIngo [?\]: upgraded, so to say
polubolaka: hehe
GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
MaLa [2k?\]: call it updated ;)
gogonuts [3d?\]: lol, mala
fj [4d?\]: I would like to have an upgrade... :(
gogonuts [3d?\]: you are the better diplomat
GoIngo [?\]: you have my paypal account fj?
GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
]
;W[mb]WL[793.456]C[MaLa [2k?\]: uhm, an upgrade makes it sound like an improvement ;) that would not be just, when we compare the older days F to miao
]
;B[nb]BL[1270.902]C[Loop [3k\]: somehing at p15  p11 ?
GoIngo [?\]: Zen is also upgradated
gogonuts [3d?\]: asd timing was better
Hench [3k\]: 'upgraduated'
]
;W[ki]WL[735.762]C[polubolaka: q4
GoIngo [?\]: postupgraduated
]
;B[jl]BL[1220.497]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: how is the side peak doing, ingo?
Zonked [3d\]: wonder how many handi in next years challenge
gosei [2d\]: why i cant see white second eye?
Zonked [3d\]: cause there aint noone in germany that stands a chance against zen19k
]
;W[lq]WL[684.553]C[GoIngo [?\]: it is expressed, vbut still smaller than the "white" peak
]
;B[kk]BL[1184.279]C[asdewq [-\]: m3 is bad it seems. wr jumped from 65 to 70
asdewq [-\]: should've played at L9
GoIngo [?\]: cs also with doubts about m3
]
;W[mr]WL[645.559]
;B[nr]BL[1169.383]
;W[mp]WL[640.629]
;B[np]BL[1168.927]C[fj [4d?\]: and here we ko
Guest2d [1d\]: several ko's
]
;W[nq]WL[613.515]C[eatramen [?\]: MIAO
GoIngo [?\]: go for ko!
gogonuts [3d?\]: wow, that was a quick bot answer for a not so easy choice
gogonuts [3d?\]: I mean O4
GoIngo [?\]: perhaps they implemented a ko routine: play quick
]
;B[fc]BL[1132.249]C[gosei [2d\]: its just dead?
Zonked [3d\]: looks like a ko to me
]
;W[or]WL[585.319]C[Hench [3k\]: ko evolutionary inevitability
gogonuts [3d?\]: desperado
gosei [2d\]: i probably miss sth,what does white if connnect?
Hench [3k\]: y
Zonked [3d\]: gosen, j2 h2 l2 , and another ko
GoIngo [?\]: p2-esc
gogonuts [3d?\]: connect still ko after b connects too
]
;B[mq]BL[1094.006]
;W[mg]WL[582.008]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: if M3 lives without to much loss of points, I think zen will have miscalculated it ...
gogonuts [3d?\]: b can let w go
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I have it only 80% alive
Zonked [3d\]: nicegoauth, b can kill topside already
GoIngo [?\]: the black side peak is vanishing
gogonuts [3d?\]: just o3
gogonuts [3d?\]: then cash in at the top
Hannoskaj [?\]: I do not undersand l11 then m3.
Guest2d [1d\]: miao still tends to make simple life, but that's not enough to win
]
;B[lf]BL[1045.533]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: oh
]
;W[nq]WL[576.617]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: hard core
Zonked [3d\]: if b has a big enough threat..
Zonked [3d\]: w will have to ask for smaller comepsnation
joachim [?\]: c7
Zonked [3d\]: maybe kkill left side
Guest2d [1d\]: g18
polubolaka: r11 
]
;B[gb]BL[998.672]C[GoIngo [?\]: 57 % for black, but peak in white
Guest2d [1d\]: yeah
]
;W[hb]WL[570.827]C[Zonked [3d\]: so pain for w
gogonuts [3d?\]: you guest it
gosei [2d\]: zonked,your sequenze doesnt work like this
Zonked [3d\]: b take back ko
]
;B[fb]BL[973.792]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: Can corner die after o1 and q4?
]
;W[ns]WL[556.94]C[bert [?\]: q3 rather
]
;B[op]BL[930.656]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: yup
GoIngo [?\]: o1 error yccording to CS
Hannoskaj [?\]: I guess p4 is a yes.
gogonuts [3d?\]: m14 was for pressure against the top not against the center ...
gosei [2d\]: after white playey l2 black seem able to kill with m1?
gosei [2d\]: so dont really understand black moves...
Zonked [3d\]: wonder if b tenukies if w plays q4
Zonked [3d\]: b can reduce topside alot in sente
gogonuts [3d?\]: wont
]
;W[qc]WL[489.653]C[GoIngo [?\]: wow all board strategy by white
Zonked [3d\]: I so want to see b attack the topside rather than defend here
Guest2d [1d\]: not sure if top w is alive
]
;B[lb]BL[893.595]C[fghsfgh: w is aiming at p15?
]
;W[kb]WL[482.342]C[GoIngo [?\]: cs confused now
bert [?\]: p11 
Hench [3k\]: advanced class: eyes
gogonuts [3d?\]: n18 capture must be sente
]
;B[lc]BL[868.008]C[Zonked [3d\]: odd choice by b
gosei [2d\]: im pretty sure black could kill 
gogonuts [3d?\]: oh
macaroni: what is "cs"? 
]
;W[kd]WL[465.417]C[Zonked [3d\]: b doesnt want an eye
Zonked [3d\]: oh, right.. ya, m17 obviously, duh
Zonked [3d\]: just works
gogonuts [3d?\]: a shiver going through the w group
]
;B[mc]BL[846.601]C[Zonked [3d\]: CS = CrazyStone, antoehr bot
macaroni: thx
Hench [3k\]: if you are not usre how many, you have one
Hench [3k\]: sure*
gogonuts [3d?\]: r17 failed badly
GoIngo [?\]: seems so
Zonked [3d\]: w was behind in points tho
GoIngo [?\]: o1 to defensive
Zonked [3d\]: badly behind in points
Hench [3k\]: j19 maybe eye
WinPoohM [1k\]: Why Zen is unrated?
gogonuts [3d?\]: off the charts
]
;W[ib]WL[354.542]C[GoIngo [?\]: now two peaks again, with the black one higher
gogonuts [3d?\]: it's unrated because this time is not it's notrmal time
]
;B[kc]BL[831.843]
;W[jc]WL[352.227]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: accounts have to be consistent
]
;B[re]BL[802.648]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: bad boy
Zonked [3d\]: wouldnt be suprised by a resign here
]
;W[pc]WL[312.741]
;B[oe]BL[773.51]C[fghsfgh: well, p15 aji is there
fghsfgh: ok, not anymore
]
;W[rd]WL[305.546]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: q12?
]
;B[ka]BL[730.072]C[polubolaka: so w wins?
]
;W[id]WL[296.646]C[Zonked [3d\]: now p17 no longer sente
gosei [2d\]: am i the only one who thinks m3 could have been killed?
Zonked [3d\]: so w looks dead
fghsfgh: surprised b did not l19 earlier, p15 was not required after l19, no?
]
;B[qd]BL[690.266]
;W[sd]WL[291.897]C[Zonked [3d\]: does b really need to play the ko here?
gogonuts [3d?\]: r16 is bad style
Guest2d [1d\]: hard to kill
]
;B[qe]BL[656.732]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: r16 for t16 is now silly
]
;W[rb]WL[266.728]C[Zonked [3d\]: ya, became alive because of it
fghsfgh: could anyone try p15 at l19 and see the WR?
]
;B[ph]BL[626.952]
;W[rg]WL[260.367]C[asdewq [-\]: w would cut at p16
asdewq [-\]: 58 for black that way
asdewq [-\]: it's 75% now
]
;B[cm]BL[593.743]
;W[am]WL[257.671]C[fghsfgh: thx
NiceGoAuth [-\]:  nicego would have played l19 instead of p15, but only very little change in winrate
GoIngo [?\]: now both cs-peakls in black
gogonuts [3d?\]: g9?
Hannoskaj [?\]: b 40 in the top left…
]
;B[ji]BL[546.758]C[fghsfgh: thx
]
;W[qr]WL[248.719]C[Zonked [3d\]: zen gettin glazy again
gogonuts [3d?\]: k11 look weak
Zonked [3d\]: k11 should alcmost certainly be q2
]
;B[on]BL[514.762]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: zen in happy mode
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I have 67% for b now
Guest2d [1d\]: zen just likes to keep 6.5 pts ahead
]
;W[fe]WL[198.676]C[gosei [2d\]: he even avoided to kill m3
disu [4k\]: 20 points black
]
;B[gf]BL[482.308]
;W[jh]WL[176.433]
;B[ii]BL[439.787]
;W[hi]WL[169.653]C[USSRMan [3d\]: wheres zen19k2
]
;B[jj]BL[424.592]C[USSRMan [3d\]: why back to 19x
]
;W[hh]WL[162.934]
;B[gj]BL[399.448]C[Entity [1d\]: to have the challenge part in codecentric challenge
]
;W[ff]WL[140.716]C[USSRMan [3d\]: has zen19x been upgraded to 9d level
GoIngo [?\]: no
Entity [1d\]: no
USSRMan [3d\]: then whats the point, bring back the new zen
]
;B[ef]BL[353.561]
;W[kh]WL[124.941]C[Entity [1d\]: new zen is busy
USSRMan [3d\]: its like watching terminator, but they brought back arnold instead of a t-1000
Entity [1d\]: keeps studying
]
;B[gr]BL[319.404]
;W[fr]WL[122.172]C[USSRMan [3d\]: oh, so they want to experiment with slow zen
fj [4d?\]: it's like watching 2016 and bringing back the USSR, u should understand ;-)
GoIngo [?\]: ;-)
Guest2d [1d\]: challenge, instead of experiment
]
;B[ir]BL[273.168]
;W[gl]WL[110.758]C[GoIngo [?\]: CS confused - maybe Zen too
USSRMan [3d\]: Nolonger the SU, but the SR
asdewq [-\]: 82%
USSRMan [3d\]: from soviet union to soviet reunion
Entity [1d\]: is there anything confusing in this position?
]
;B[fs]BL[225.401]
;W[es]WL[108.485]C[Guest2d [1d\]: b needs two eyes
USSRMan [3d\]: b has 2 eyes easily
]
;B[gs]BL[200.111]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: by what is cs confused?
Guest2d [1d\]: to maximize profit is not easy
GoIngo [?\]: 2-peak confusion
USSRMan [3d\]: zen19k2 is a bot, it can train and play on kgs at same time
MaLa [2k?\]: you have to know
Entity [1d\]: only if you have 2 machines
Hannoskaj [?\]: Do you have a workstation with powerful GPUs to lend?
IonutC [5k?\]: Zen is like alpha?
USSRMan [3d\]: terminators dont maximize territory, it maximizes win percentage
readytogo [4k\]: hey wh  zen have no rank ????
readytogo [4k\]: why
Entity [1d\]: and even then, it's probably better to use both machines for training
]
;W[fm]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[fn]BL[199.671]
;W[hm]WL[60]OW[3]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: @Ingo, I do have all fairly stable at the moment, 68%
]
;B[hn]BL[167.167]C[USSRMan [3d\]: wait, so zen is an actual machine, not in the cloud?
GoIngo [?\]: % of CS are similar, but still strange histogram
Zonked [3d\]:  ussrman, weird question, it does run on one machine yes, but any pc will do
GodofGo [6d\]: b should win this
USSRMan [3d\]: alphago is in google cloud
readytogo [4k\]: but it wont run on ios
]
;W[gn]WL[60]OW[3]C[USSRMan [3d\]: it played against lee sedol from california through a human proxy
GoIngo [?\]: miao in byo
Zonked [3d\]: ussrman, sure, but they did provide the results for the version that runs on one machine
]
;B[fo]BL[152.308]C[readytogo [4k\]: i think apple should sue
]
;W[eq]WL[60]OW[3]C[readytogo [4k\]: i have never been so insulted
readytogo [4k\]: well almost never
IonutC [5k?\]: K6 sente
]
;B[ck]BL[104.648]C[USSRMan [3d\]: what
]
;W[fi]WL[60]OW[3]C[Hannoskaj [?\]: And yes, it was actual dedicated machines, not Google Cloud. A farm for Alphago.
Zonked [3d\]: current zen is equivalent to the alphago version that won against fan hui, assuming similar hardware
Guest2d [1d\]: sente
gosei [2d\]: godlike misread:)
]
;B[ee]BL[66.717]C[USSRMan [3d\]: how powerful would zen be if it had access to more computational power?
Zonked [3d\]: it already has access to about as much as you can get
Entity [1d\]: for training or for playing?
Zonked [3d\]: 4x the best graphics card money can buy and two very good cpus
USSRMan [3d\]: both
]
;W[gk]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[hj]BL[66.323]
;W[cl]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[cj]BL[51.401]C[USSRMan [3d\]: if zen had access to the computational power of google
]
;W[bk]WL[60]OW[3]C[Entity [1d\]: good question, and only google knows the answer :)
Zonked [3d\]: its a bit weird question tho, since I dont think zen would scale, not atleast current version, tho Im not sure
Medieval [3d\]: Score Estimator says W+7.5
Hannoskaj [?\]: Even for playing, easily pro level at long time controls. If there is multi-machine code, which is not sure.
]
;B[jr]BL[0.719]C[USSRMan [3d\]: i'm not sure what is the algorithm for SE, but it is pretty awful
USSRMan [3d\]: no accuracy at all
IonutC [5k?\]: Miao is good!
GoIngo [?\]: he has fighting spirit
asdewq [-\]: miao is actually very strong
Zonked [3d\]: t15 worth playing pretty soon..
]
;W[rr]WL[60]OW[3]C[Zonked [3d\]: sente against corner
IonutC [5k?\]: Hey dont speak like this about Se! Se is better than Alpha! It can kill even living groups!
Hannoskaj [?\]: With two eyes!
]
;B[pb]BL[60]OB[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: now zen also in byo
]
;W[qb]WL[60]OW[3]C[Zonked [3d\]: q18 looks wrong..
USSRMan [3d\]: zen definitely stronger in blitz time settings
Zonked [3d\]: now t15 wont work anymore
]
;B[ob]BL[60]OB[3]C[Zonked [3d\]: w probably plays t5 now
]
;W[se]WL[60]OW[3]C[Zonked [3d\]: t15*
Zonked [3d\]: l2 for b
]
;B[rf]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[sf]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[pq]BL[60]OB[3]C[USSRMan [3d\]: what
]
;W[kr]WL[60]OW[3]C[USSRMan [3d\]: q3 because it maximizes win% not points
]
;B[pr]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[ps]WL[60]OW[3]C[Guest2d [1d\]: it's really close
asdewq [-\]: it's really close, but sill over 80
]
;B[jb]BL[60]OB[3]C[gosei [2d\]: really,strange endgame from zen,could have in very simple way
polubolaka: b wins
]
;W[ip]WL[60]OW[3]C[Guest2d [1d\]: ok
IonutC [5k?\]: S5
]
;B[hp]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[jn]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[jo]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[jm]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[in]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[hl]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[il]BL[60]OB[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: bots should invest more in plausible endgame
GoIngo [?\]: +1
]
;W[ro]WL[60]OW[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: the endgame is from the bad old days
USSRMan [3d\]: i feel the whole maximizing win% thing is not very accurate during endgame
USSRMan [3d\]: spewing points left and right is how you lose close games
]
;B[qi]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[ri]WL[60]OW[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: winning by a point, or maybe losing because of japanese rule miscount, is just a joke
gosei [2d\]: d11 forwhite might be tricky..
Hench [3k\]: becuz u only talkin about minimal point difference
]
;B[kp]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[kq]WL[60]OW[3]C[asdewq [-\]: 4.5 pts for black
fuchur [1k\]: t2
asdewq [-\]: 90%
]
;B[sr]BL[60]OB[3]C[mmueller [?\]: I think B played a strong endgame, and W lost a bit
GoIngo [?\]: hi martin
gosei [2d\]: black played horrible
mmueller [?\]: Hi GoINgo
gosei [2d\]: in my opinion
mmueller [?\]: L19 was big capture
USSRMan [3d\]: t2 is strong though
]
;W[sp]WL[60]OW[3]C[mmueller [?\]: Q3 was surprising but good gyaku yose
]
;B[sq]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[so]WL[60]OW[3]C[yoyoma [1d\]: ok what is gyaku
gosei [2d\]: i mean losing two black stones in the center was very bad
]
;B[rq]BL[60]OB[3]C[gosei [2d\]: minus 7 points at least
mmueller [?\]: yes but I think that was a reading problem, not endgame 
]
;W[di]WL[60]OW[3]C[gosei [2d\]: ahh,ok
IonutC [5k?\]: A10
gosei [2d\]: d11:)
Guest2d [1d\]: c11
Entity [1d\]: e12 
fj [4d?\]: no it wasn't, gosei
gosei [2d\]: what?
Guest2d [1d\]: e12
fj [4d?\]: he got f1 endgame + sente for it
]
;B[ci]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[dk]WL[60]OW[3]C[Guest2d [1d\]: e12 better
fj [4d?\]: didn't lose much, if any<
asdewq [-\]: those two black stones arent captured yet
gosei [2d\]: he could have connected in sente
]
;B[eh]BL[60]OB[3]C[gosei [2d\]: and get both
]
;W[oc]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[od]BL[60]OB[3]C[gosei [2d\]: fj,i mean c9  sequenze
gosei [2d\]: was huge desaster
gogonuts [3d?\]: b winning by more than komi?
]
;W[ai]WL[60]OW[3]C[mmueller [?\]: I did not understand how to play bottom right but this result looks bad for W, losing the corner pointd
]
;B[ah]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[aj]WL[60]OW[3]C[Guest2d [1d\]: 3:1 for zen
gogonuts [3d?\]: the human winning the first and then losing 3 is pretty strange
]
;B[qa]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[ra]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[pa]BL[60]OB[3]C[joachim [?\]: but s5 also 4 points
]
;W[js]WL[60]OW[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: maybe we should concentrate on congratulating Lukas for that win ...
gghideki [?\]: muller, T2 instead of S2?
]
;B[is]BL[60]OB[3]C[Amenophis [2d?\]: so the "rule" continues: who wins the first game loses the series...
]
;W[ks]WL[60]OW[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: it seems Hideki's prediction was rightr
Guest2d [1d\]: yep
mmueller [?\]: Or S3 even?
GoRoGoRo [?\]: what did Hideki predict?
pookpooi [?\]: he predicted 2 outcomes, not fair
gogonuts [3d?\]: I'm not happy though, that the bot got the better opening 4 out of 4
mmueller [?\]: Or play Q3 before Zen does..
pookpooi [?\]: 3-0 or 3-1
]
;B[pm]BL[60]OB[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: 3-0 or 3-1 for zen
]
;W[mm]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[nm]BL[60]OB[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: my impression is that the situation is reversed from 2015 and 2014 when 3-1 was go to human, not bot
gogonuts [3d?\]: and the fact that Lukas won the first, but that didn't help him, shows that 3:0 was a solid prognosis
IonutC [5k?\]: Miao beat zen in the first round right?
GoIngo [?\]: cs saw the turning point at 144.o1
gogonuts [3d?\]: right
gghideki [?\]: I really expected 3-2 or 2-3 but predicted 3-0 or 3-1
]
;W[ga]WL[60]OW[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: :-)
GoIngo [?\]: ???
GoIngo [?\]: Japanese humor?
gogonuts [3d?\]: ah, home team prediction :-)
gghideki [?\]: I hoped closer games
]
;B[fa]BL[60]OB[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: but the way this went, I think Lukas can be happy with one win
Krama [?\]: where iz zen19k2
GoIngo [?\]: this round was close in a sense
gghideki [?\]: just a hope
IonutC [5k?\]: Is there a beting system to this game?
]
;W[ha]WL[60]OW[3]C[pyramids2 [1k\]: mmueller: due to damezumari, the capture wasn't good. instead, w chose to get one point (t5) in sente. I suppose that was the best way w could play the corner.
GoIngo [?\]: only behind curtains
]
;B[ja]BL[60]OB[3]C[GodofGo [6d\]: one more point in p10 area
pookpooi [?\]: will zen play an even game with pro soon, not online game
]
;W[eo]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[do]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[gm]WL[60]OW[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: can zen win against iyama yuta within this year?
IonutC [5k?\]: I think zen played with pro in russia
gghideki [?\]: probabaly but I have no idea.  All depend on dwango
IonutC [5k?\]: And he beat the 9p women
]
;B[en]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[ep]WL[60]OW[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: but with handicap
GodofGo [6d\]: n11 
GoIngo [?\]: h2
USSRMan [3d\]: zen can be atleast as strong as alphago when it played vs fan hui
IonutC [5k?\]: Who did the training there
GodofGo [6d\]: am i missing something or is there a point there
quasimoyo [?\]: lower right corner?
IonutC [5k?\]: Dunno if they played with handicap
gghideki [?\]: pookpooi, I hope so but all depend on Yamato :)
]
;B[qq]BL[60]OB[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: hideki, thank you very much for your effort - it's incredible that you're staying up so late into the night
]
;W[os]WL[60]OW[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: yes, very much appreciated
trohde [?\]: ditto to that!
Hannoskaj [?\]: Thank you Hideki!
gghideki [?\]: I have on Mixed tournament :)  which starts in 40 min
]
;B[mi]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[lh]WL[60]OW[3]C[gogonuts [3d?\]: oh man :-)
Zonked [3d\]: crushes the competition there tho
GoIngo [?\]: mixed: human+bot in team?
GoRoGoRo [?\]: Zen-taur
gghideki [?\]: no, either can enter
Zonked [3d\]: mixed as in both humans and bots, no teams
pookpooi [?\]: mixed tournament = first step of robot's equal right
GoIngo [?\]: nice word joke
gogonuts [3d?\]: lool
GoIngo [?\]: I see
]
;B[oj]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[pi]WL[60]OW[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: on KGS
USSRMan [3d\]: robots dont have souls
Hannoskaj [?\]: Best of luck!
gghideki [?\]: Ingo, you've asked Nick about that.  What was the answer?
GoIngo [?\]: no reply
pookpooi [?\]: hideki, it's 3 AM in Japan!
gogonuts [3d?\]: top amateurs or also pros?
]
;B[cd]BL[60]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: I see.  Maybe too early
]
;W[mj]WL[60]OW[3]C[GodofGo [6d\]: lmao
ChtiGo [2k?\]: I s there a publication explanig how current zen works ?
Bladavia: lolwut
GodofGo [6d\]: c16 is declaration of win
Guest2d [1d\]: zen just wants SE to give the right answer
Bladavia: Equivalent of manner mules in SC2
]
;B[nj]BL[60]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: possibly soon
ChtiGo [2k?\]: how you have implemented neural netwok
Zonked [3d\]: chtigo, afaik its almost excacly the same as alphago explained in nature paper, except maybe that the rollout policy is different
]
;W[mk]WL[60]OW[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: Before AlphaGo, zen always refer to remi when someone ask for publication, now zen is refer to alphago's nature paper
ChtiGo [2k?\]: the architecture choice of the CNN could be different.
gghideki [?\]: how?  Using C++ and Cuda
ChtiGo [2k?\]: or the ttraini g pipeline
kis [6k\]: s1?
]
;B[hg]BL[60]OB[3]C[ChtiGo [2k?\]: ok'
]
;W[hc]WL[60]OW[3]C[Zonked [3d\]: kis, what about s1?
ChtiGo [2k?\]: thank Hideki. and congratulation
gghideki [?\]: The architecure is designed by Yamato
gghideki [?\]: I know little
ChtiGo [2k?\]: Any paper from Yamato?
]
;B[ss]BL[60]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: I believe NO
]
;W[qs]WL[60]OW[3]C[ChtiGo [2k?\]: Shale
ChtiGo [2k?\]: m
gghideki [?\]: He is an independent programmer, not a researcher
GoIngo [?\]: no
GoIngo [?\]: right
Guest2d [1d\]: oh really independent?
USSRMan [3d\]: can some zen vs zen self played games be released
GoIngo [?\]: there is a saying in programmers circles:
USSRMan [3d\]: i want to see the style vs alphago
ChtiGo [2k?\]: Shame! It would have been interesting to dive into its work
GoIngo [?\]: those who write do not know
GoIngo [?\]: and those whp know do not write
]
;B[rs]BL[60]OB[3]C[GoIngo [?\]: who
]
;W[]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[]BL[60]OB[3]TW[sa][sb][ic][rc][sc][hd][jd][sg][sh][si][rj][sj][ak][ek][fk][rk][sk][al][sl][sm][an][rn][sn][bo][ap][cp][aq][bq][cq][dq][mq][ar][br][cr][dr][er][lr][nr][as][bs][cs][ds][ls][ms]TB[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][la][ma][na][oa][ab][bb][cb][db][eb][kb][mb][ac][bc][dc][ec][ad][bd][ed][ae][be][ce][fe][pe][af][bf][cf][df][ff][ag][bg][cg][dg][fg][bh][ij][jk][ol][om][ho][oo][pp][hr][hs]C[pookpooi [?\]: gg
miao [6d\]: thx
miao [6d\]: :)
gghideki [?\]: Thanks!
GoIngo [?\]: congrats to theZen team
pookpooi [?\]: hope for next year challenge ;)
GoldenBear [1d\]: Thanks a lot to Hideki and Lukas for an interesting codecentric go challenge 2016! And one last time: Visit go.codecentric.de. 
trohde [?\]: Congrats!
Hannoskaj [?\]: Thank you Miao!
GoIngo [?\]: great fight
Amenophis [2d?\]: Thanks fpr the game.
GoIngo [?\]: Thx, Miao
miao [6d\]: good game by zen :)
Hannoskaj [?\]: Congrats to Hideki and Yamato!
trohde [?\]: And thanks to everybody involved, as usual :-)
pookpooi [?\]: next year hardware limit is mobile phone, take my idea please ;)
GodofGo [6d\]: all hail robot overlords
gghideki [?\]: Thank you miao and GoIngo for this match
Amenophis [2d?\]: And thanks to all who made this challenge possible.
GoIngo [?\]: we will think about it
])
