(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[2700]OT[3x30 byo-yomi]
PW[Zen19X]PB[DGoB2]DT[2017-08-02]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Zen19X [-\]: GTP Engine for Zen19X (white): Zen version 15.2
DGoB2 [-\]: hi
]RE[W+7.50]
;B[pd]BL[2670.682]C[Koby [?\]: hi
]
;W[dd]WL[2694.741]C[Koby [?\]: Isn't 15.1 stronger than 15.2 on CGOS?
]
;B[pp]BL[2611.331]
;W[dp]WL[2671.188]C[ibd [5k?\]: hi, have fun
raspberry [7k\]: spaceman is black
gghideki [?\]: Hi, gg
pookpooi [?\]: will fan hui give a talk after this event
]
;B[cq]BL[2546.159]C[gghideki [?\]: Mimicking Master ;)
]
;W[cp]WL[2649.063]
;B[dq]BL[2538.755]
;W[eq]WL[2616.458]C[raspberry [7k\]: spaceman is using alphago tactics
]
;B[er]BL[2534.852]
;W[fq]WL[2607.901]
;B[fr]BL[2528.474]
;W[gq]WL[2602.323]C[ibd [5k?\]: why is black, again?
ibd [5k?\]: who*
]
;B[gr]BL[2486.049]C[raspberry [7k\]: Ohashi, Hirofumi 6p
Koby [?\]: who is spaceman
]
;W[hq]WL[2580.509]C[ibd [5k?\]: thank you
ecctom2 [3d\]:  3 3 dh alphago
raspberry [7k\]: spaceman is a his nickname
]
;B[cf]BL[2471.324]
;W[di]WL[2545.314]
;B[fc]BL[2461.348]
;W[df]WL[2517.744]
;B[dg]BL[2451.734]C[pookpooi [?\]: will this accompanied with zen's winrate?
]
;W[ef]WL[2495.658]
;B[cc]BL[2443.021]
;W[ce]WL[2488.239]
;B[dc]BL[2437.968]
;W[eg]WL[2457.91]
;B[dl]BL[2300.35]
;W[bp]WL[2418.611]C[hvk [-\]: Who plays against a robot?
]
;B[bq]BL[2286.91]
;W[fl]WL[2411.613]
;B[dj]BL[2278.144]
;W[cj]WL[2389.967]C[GCP [?\]: Ohashi Hirofumi (6p)
]
;B[ej]BL[2269.56]C[hvk [-\]: OK TX 
]
;W[ck]WL[2367.238]
;B[el]BL[2244.983]
;W[fm]WL[2358.541]
;B[ei]BL[2207.838]
;W[dh]WL[2352.27]
;B[hj]BL[2103.139]
;W[qf]WL[2323.182]
;B[nc]BL[2085.917]
;W[qn]WL[2302.547]C[raspberry [7k\]: sometimes, Zen consumes time more than 15 seconds, and, sometimes it doesn't. very interesting.
pookpooi [?\]: What is Zen thinking about B/W komi in Japanese rule
]
;B[nq]BL[1989.024]C[gghideki [?\]: Hu?  6.5 pts
]
;W[pj]WL[2295.976]C[pookpooi [?\]: yes, is it balance or favor b/w
GCP [?\]: he means winrate at opening :)
]
;B[ql]BL[1935.595]C[gghideki [?\]: ic, 52%
blackpete [1k\]: is there a winrate for the first move?
]
;W[pl]WL[2270.101]C[raspberry [7k\]: according to other gmaes so far, it thinks w is ahead by 1 or 2 %
gghideki [?\]: for W
]
;B[pk]BL[1928.261]C[pookpooi [?\]: thank you, pretty even to me
cohen [7k?\]: b is 6p?
gghideki [?\]: 52% is the winrate for the first move of W
]
;W[ok]WL[2244.733]
;B[qk]BL[1922.79]C[gghideki [?\]: yes, Ohashi, Hirofumi 6p
ibd [5k?\]: that seems consistent with what every other strong bot has found
]
;W[pm]WL[2234.375]C[gghideki [?\]: I guess no
ibd [5k?\]: w has a very slight advantage with that komi
gghideki [?\]: it heavily depends on the playing style (agreesive or passive, for example) of the bot
shredderr [10k\]: i wanna zen's return to kgs (not on weaker setteing), kgs has not got really strong players, which is playing regular((
]
;B[qj]BL[1856.154]
;W[pi]WL[2227.184]
;B[rh]BL[1841.933]
;W[pg]WL[2219.98]C[gghideki [?\]: Zen is asked to play from many sites (Tygem, FoxGo, etc) and hardware resource is limited, sorry
]
;B[rm]BL[1823.454]
;W[jj]WL[2212.535]C[pookpooi [?\]: WIll you participate in computer go championship in China this august
pookpooi [?\]: Revenge match with FineArt?
]
;B[ih]BL[1753.428]C[shredderr [10k\]: good luck against Fine Art))
gghideki [?\]: yes, Leela as well.  The recent info is here http://www.intergofed.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1st-Waigo-notification.pdf
]
;W[md]WL[2157.888]C[pookpooi [?\]: DeepZen unluckily slide to number 3 position, hope it's returning to number 2 soon
ibd [5k?\]: I feel like b's invasion on the right is exactly what w has wanted
ibd [5k?\]: to launch an attack now
pookpooi [?\]: Meanwhile, Aja Huang is watching quietly
]
;B[nk]BL[1649.84]C[raspberry [7k\]: tricky move :)
]
;W[nl]WL[2107.256]C[gghideki [?\]: I don't mind the place, really.  More strong bots makes computer Go scene more exciting :)
]
;B[oj]BL[1639.938]
;W[ol]WL[2099.469]C[pookpooi [?\]: Just read the document, I miss CrazyStone already, can someone convice Remi? Or he move to mahjong AI now?
]
;B[ki]BL[1598.58]C[pookpooi [?\]: The MCT leading revolution shouldn't be leave in the dust
]
;W[ji]WL[2054.894]
;B[jh]BL[1594.303]C[gghideki [?\]: Remi is (or had been) trying to make CS stronger with another way than AlphaGo
]
;W[kh]WL[2040.173]C[pookpooi [?\]: interesting
]
;B[kg]BL[1550.636]C[GCP [?\]: he said on r/baduk it had a value net too now though
ibd [5k?\]: what happened with Rémi? he moved on from computer go?
lo [8k\]: m12 
]
;W[lh]WL[2010.549]
;B[lg]BL[1545.494]
;W[mh]WL[1998.636]C[pookpooi [?\]: I think he has many project, mahjong AI, and crazy sensei
]
;B[mg]BL[1542.108]
;W[nh]WL[1991.008]C[gghideki [?\]: still working on CS but also busy for other games on mobilephones.
ibd [5k?\]: BTW, do the mobile versions of these engines use the phone's GPUs for the NNs?
ibd [5k?\]: or is it all cpu-driven
]
;B[jk]BL[1476.898]
;W[kj]WL[1934.831]C[GCP [?\]: he's also working on a new database system
GCP [?\]: joedb
GCP [?\]: ibd, afaik it's all cpu driven
GCP [?\]: ibd, using the GPU is tricky as you have much more limited, older APIs on the vast majority of phones
pookpooi [?\]: Will Zen has commercial release? Or Nihon-Kiin concerning e-cheating?
Haigha [2k\]: isnt b known for his strange openings ?
]
;B[ij]BL[1341.703]C[ibd [5k?\]: yeah, I suspect there isn't a universal framework like cuda or openCL for phones, especially since there are the two main competitors qualcomm and mediatek
ibd [5k?\]: but I thought maybe there was :)
]
;W[mc]WL[1878.797]C[gghideki [?\]: Of course, Tehncho-no-igo 7 will be released (I guess in this year).
]
;B[nd]BL[1321.977]C[raspberry [7k\]: b, spaceman likes unusual opening.
]
;W[ne]WL[1859.598]C[Haigha [2k\]: b is ahead
gghideki [?\]: He declared, he will try to win (ie, do his best).
pookpooi [?\]: I think I see hybrid program between Zen and Leela from Chinese website
]
;B[kk]BL[1291.947]
;W[lj]WL[1851.27]C[gghideki [?\]: Oh?
pookpooi [?\]: Zen GTP that is use Leela evaluation
gghideki [?\]: The source code of both programs are not open
]
;B[lk]BL[1268.049]
;W[mk]WL[1835.498]C[gghideki [?\]: GTP version of Zen is not open, as well
]
;B[rd]BL[1223.545]C[pookpooi [?\]: I'll let the people in lifein19x19 webboard know
blackpete [1k\]: is there a winrate now?
gghideki [?\]: link?
pookpooi [?\]: https://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14430
]
;W[jf]WL[1803.067]C[gghideki [?\]: 64%
gghideki [?\]: thx
]
;B[jg]BL[1213.593]C[pookpooi [?\]: or you can post your statement youself, hideki
Haigha [2k\]: h17 and game is even
]
;W[gc]WL[1752.077]C[ibd [5k?\]: that seems like a pirated version of zen pookpooi, no?
]
;B[gb]BL[1162.755]C[gghideki [?\]: I can't copy the link, maybe due to Windows10 :(
]
;W[fb]WL[1727.414]C[ibd [5k?\]: gghideki, I can't click the link, but I can select, then copy-paste... doesn't work for you?
gghideki [?\]: no :(
pookpooi [?\]: search Google 'Zen has a GTP version'
pookpooi [?\]: should be the first result
]
;B[eb]BL[1047.23]
;W[hb]WL[1720.509]
;B[fa]BL[1043.118]
;W[nb]WL[1713.696]
;B[ob]BL[1039.239]
;W[mb]WL[1706.859]C[Haigha [2k\]: i think w might win this
GCP [?\]: looks like someone parsing output from zen's dll and mixing it up with leela's eval through a driver program
gghideki [?\]: Ok, worked. And I understand the cimera (hybrid).  That uses Leela's GUI and Zen's DLL (engine).
gghideki [?\]: *Chimera
]
;B[hc]BL[951.129]C[jlm [1k\]: sorry, i arrived late and can't see earlier comments. who is dgob2?
gghideki [?\]: Ohashi 6p
Haigha [2k\]: dgob1's brother
jlm [1k\]: thank you
]
;W[pb]WL[1663.503]C[pookpooi [?\]: The moment both Zen and Leela programmer just know their programs have illigitimate offspring
]
;B[pc]BL[946.941]
;W[oa]WL[1652.171]
;B[qb]BL[944.462]C[ibd [5k?\]: lol
]
;W[oc]WL[1645.53]
;B[od]BL[941.52]
;W[ic]WL[1638.923]C[GCP [?\]: I think it's a nudge to hideki that people want an update :P
]
;B[gd]BL[927.653]C[gghideki [?\]: Zen6-0.4b23.exe is a hacked version of Tencho 6... wow
]
;W[il]WL[1597.347]
;B[ik]BL[889.718]C[Haigha [2k\]: its already endgame
]
;W[lq]WL[1565.057]
;B[rp]BL[873.963]C[jlm [1k\]: s14 causes problems no?
Haigha [2k\]: feels like the whole game was endgame actually
]
;W[nr]WL[1544.576]
;B[or]BL[857.084]
;W[id]WL[1525.346]C[shredderr [10k\]: no
Haigha [2k\]: there's some aji in the corner, but just splitting wont threaten right side group and the ko makes it hard for w to make something happen in the corner
gghideki [?\]: no fights, so W should ahead
]
;B[hl]BL[799.477]
;W[hm]WL[1505.095]
;B[im]BL[795.636]C[cohen [7k?\]: b has 40p
]
;W[in]WL[1496.542]
;B[jl]BL[792.463]
;W[mr]WL[1485.349]C[cohen [7k?\]: w is ahead by 10p
aaaabo: 40p=10p
gghideki [?\]: Quick play of Zen suggests its ahead
]
;B[mp]BL[754.277]
;W[hr]WL[1443.313]C[Haigha [2k\]: game looks over
pookpooi [?\]: should play to the end if b has longer time
Haigha [2k\]: of course
]
;B[be]BL[641.776]
;W[bf]WL[1437.216]
;B[cd]BL[639.036]C[jlm [1k\]: i was thinking k6 now for b is pretty important
]
;W[cg]WL[1415.739]
;B[ib]BL[632.074]C[Haigha [2k\]: this is big
Fradoc [4k\]: C8 is also isn't it ?
]
;W[jb]WL[1395.647]
;B[ha]BL[627.133]
;W[le]WL[1382.536]C[jlm [1k\]: i guess n4 and k6 are a sort of miai
redreoicy [4d\]: Maximum ponnuki
raspberry [7k\]: Zen knows it
redreoicy [4d\]: 90 points right there
]
;B[jn]BL[572.981]
;W[hn]WL[1359.304]
;B[jp]BL[566.636]
;W[jq]WL[1349.093]C[Haigha [2k\]: this is gonna end w+.5
]
;B[qi]BL[522.663]C[gghideki [?\]: maybe no
gghideki [?\]: :)
]
;W[ph]WL[1326.033]C[gghideki [?\]: SE can be used as Japanese rules are used
]
;B[ob]BL[505.484]C[Haigha [2k\]: se can be used like a rusted nail in the eye
]
;W[ro]WL[1295.95]C[gghideki [?\]: 22.5 is too many, I guess
gghideki [?\]: :)
raspberry [7k\]: is this ko threat?
Haigha [2k\]: endgame
]
;B[qo]BL[462.006]
;W[rn]WL[1282.872]C[gghideki [?\]: This ko is not so big
jlm [1k\]: c8 now
Fradoc [4k\]: Pretty big indeed
redreoicy [4d\]: After ko black group can die
]
;B[pa]BL[406.887]C[gghideki [?\]: B can watari
Abraxas [13k\]: smocaine
redreoicy [4d\]: But hard to kill without filling ko first
]
;W[sp]WL[1260.626]
;B[rq]BL[402.391]C[Haigha [2k\]: watari or not watari thats the question
gghideki [?\]: B can't die
]
;W[po]WL[1249.819]C[gghideki [?\]: watari or live :)
redreoicy [4d\]: I mean if w filled ko and b tenuki
]
;B[qp]BL[378.01]
;W[os]WL[1238.701]
;B[pr]BL[373.731]C[gghideki [?\]: I guess it's ok for B, no?
Haigha [2k\]: sure if you let your groups die on purpose
]
;W[bm]WL[1198.507]C[Haigha [2k\]: so big
ibd [5k?\]: b started out with a star point in the LR corner, now it's tiny
jlm [1k\]: a4
gghideki [?\]: >80%
]
;B[cm]BL[337.196]C[Haigha [2k\]: sounds reasonable
]
;W[dn]WL[1176.479]
;B[bn]BL[306.394]
;W[bl]WL[1171.134]C[redreoicy [4d\]: W plus Komi about
]
;B[cn]BL[294.535]
;W[ip]WL[1165.794]C[Haigha [2k\]: 4 corners + alive center and still behind
]
;B[kp]BL[273.069]
;W[bd]WL[1136.119]
;B[bc]BL[265.397]C[sh [4k\]: Is this some sort of tournament game?
]
;W[ae]WL[1126.053]C[Haigha [2k\]: just some special event
]
;B[if]BL[250.023]C[raspberry [7k\]: b is getting points back
qgo [4k\]: b can never make up in endgame now what he is behind
]
;W[je]WL[1101.808]C[qgo [4k\]: so end of game. not interesting anymore
Haigha [2k\]: this was endgame start to finish...
]
;B[ja]BL[183.745]C[gghideki [?\]: SE says B+0.5 :)
pookpooi [?\]: It's not like the result is set in the stone, sometimes Zen lose with 0.5 point
]
;W[kb]WL[1083.614]C[luffyCoser [2k\]: zen always lose in end game
pookpooi [?\]: should said 'rarely'
gghideki [?\]: possible but on some complex position.  This game is...
Haigha [2k\]: result is set in the stones, it's go afterall
luffyCoser [2k\]: it is because zen cannot handle "0.5"
]
;B[en]BL[104.53]
;W[eo]WL[1078.572]C[pookpooi [?\]: But I'm glad that Zen is a big part helping Japanese National team play on faster time setting
gghideki [?\]: DCNN is hard to compute the score with less than 1 pts error (in worst cases)
asdewq2 [?\]: gghideki, are Janapense rules problem for Zen, because I heard Zen was trained on chinese rules?
asdewq2 [?\]: *Japanese
gghideki [?\]: also possible
gghideki [?\]: but this game looks not so close...
]
;B[kq]BL[32.927]C[Haigha [2k\]: i heard alphago was trained on 7.5 chinese rules, and then it cant play handicap or another komi
]
;W[kr]WL[1061.344]C[pookpooi [?\]: 'was'
gghideki [?\]: yes
]
;B[jr]BL[17.512]
;W[iq]WL[1056.307]C[pookpooi [?\]: now it can play with no komi, according to David Silver
Haigha [2k\]: now its defunct so...
]
;B[lp]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: maybe AlphaGo has two VN (one is for 7.5 and the other is for 0.5 :)
]
;W[rg]WL[1030.339]C[pookpooi [?\]: 60 game Tygem/Fox series also play with 6.5 komi
]
;B[dm]BL[30]OB[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: but maybe it just so good that it can play
pookpooi [?\]: with different komi, despite training with 7.5
gghideki [?\]: really? played under Japanese rules?
]
;W[fn]WL[995.784]
;B[ns]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: AlphaGo doesn't manage Japanese rules, I believe
]
;W[mm]WL[961.004]C[pookpooi [?\]: We're still waiting for Aja Huang's comment ;)
]
;B[qh]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[re]WL[942.531]C[Haigha [2k\]: i heard alphago dated se, but they split up because se started taking drugs again
gghideki [?\]: Under Chinese rules, komi 7.5 and 6.5 are almost the same
]
;B[oo]BL[30]OB[3]C[Haigha [2k\]: yeah almost
Haigha [2k\]: 1 point i heard
]
;W[rc]WL[911.003]C[ajahuang [?\]: I think understand Chinese rules, 7.5 and 6.5 are equivalent.
]
;B[sd]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[qd]WL[905.647]C[x0000 [-\]: depends on who plays the last move
]
;B[qc]BL[30]OB[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: except in a very specific position that really super rarely occur
]
;W[qe]WL[901.077]
;B[rb]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[se]WL[881.706]C[gghideki [?\]: Sorry, under Chinese rules, the score is usually odd.  So, 5.5 and 6.5 are almost the same
]
;B[sc]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[sh]WL[871.743]
;B[si]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[sg]WL[867.26]C[gghideki [?\]: if A + B is odd, then A - B is also odd
]
;B[sk]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: A + B is 361 on 19x19
x0000 [-\]: usually
]
;W[aq]WL[851.348]C[gghideki [?\]: yes
]
;B[ar]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: no seki etc.
]
;W[ap]WL[846.956]
;B[cr]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[em]WL[825.372]C[Haigha [2k\]: what about making one rule to bring them all ?
]
;B[ac]BL[30]OB[3]C[pookpooi [?\]: The new AlphaGo paper should reveal on how to handle different rulesets too
gghideki [?\]: now SE says W+10.5
]
;W[fh]WL[792.98]C[x0000 [-\]: no, now w + 51 apparently
]
;B[ed]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gj]WL[762.19]C[Clavicule [4d\]: @haigha aga and egf rules are more or less that
]
;B[gi]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gk]WL[741.174]
;B[fi]BL[30]OB[3]C[ajahuang [?\]: Under Chinese rules, 6.5 point  = 2.75 stone, 180.5 + 2.75 = 183.25, still less than 184.
pookpooi [?\]: Hideki, according to DeepMind website, the 60 game master series is in Japanese rule
pookpooi [?\]: https://deepmind.com/research/alphago/match-archive/master/
]
;W[ll]WL[711.888]C[gghideki [?\]: Oh, THX
pookpooi [?\]: "Rules	Japanese Komi	6.5"
]
;B[ii]BL[30]OB[3]C[ajahuang [?\]: Because Chinese rules say Black 184 wins.
]
;W[nj]WL[692.068]C[gghideki [?\]: Hi Aja, you are watching
]
;B[gl]BL[30]OB[3]C[Clavicule [4d\]: 6.5 points = 3.25 stones or my math is really deficient
]
;W[fk]WL[680.732]
;B[km]BL[30]OB[3]C[ajahuang [?\]: Hi, gg. Yes, Interesting games. :)
]
;W[hg]WL[655.744]C[gghideki [?\]: thx
]
;B[ad]BL[30]OB[3]C[Clavicule [4d\]: 184 stones white wins by half a point
gghideki [?\]: This Zen is running on a desktop pc with a GPU
Clavicule [4d\]: with 7.5 komi
]
;W[be]WL[637.642]
;B[gf]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[hh]WL[624.056]
;B[hi]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[lr]WL[595.728]C[gghideki [?\]: B 184 = W 177 so B minus W is 7... This is B's win?
]
;B[am]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[al]WL[580.796]C[gghideki [?\]: under Chinese rules
Clavicule [4d\]: if 7.5 komi it's w win under chinese rules
]
;B[ie]BL[30]OB[3]C[x0000 [-\]: With 7.5 komi W wins
gghideki [?\]: Ok, I see
]
;W[ff]WL[552.561]
;B[jd]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[kd]WL[535.396]
;B[kf]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ke]WL[521.644]C[x0000 [-\]: my rough counting says the game is beyond saving for b at this point. But I really want to see pro's magic in yose
]
;B[ps]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[sq]WL[506.019]
;B[sr]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[so]WL[502.25]
;B[rr]BL[30]OB[3]C[Timk [-\]: Вить, а кто в роли Дгоба играет ?
]
;W[sm]WL[484.384]
;B[qm]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[pn]WL[475.951]
;B[sl]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[no]WL[468.081]C[Gonzalate [?\]: Hirofumi Ohashi 6p
x0000 [-\]: Ohashi 6p вроде
]
;B[op]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[on]WL[454.922]C[Timk [-\]: ох
]
;B[ms]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ls]WL[429.74]
;B[os]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[js]WL[421.057]
;B[an]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ln]WL[406.774]
;B[mo]BL[30]OB[3]C[ajahuang [?\]: if komi is 7.5, Black 185 wins, if komi is 5.5, Black 184 wins, but it's hard to decide Black's threshold for komi 6.5. That's the problem.
]
;W[mn]WL[392.483]
;B[cl]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[bk]WL[384.314]C[pookpooi [?\]: I kinda sense that Aja Huang already solve this problem
Terrapene [1k\]: so black is 6p?
]
;B[hd]BL[30]OB[3]C[boshy [1k\]: yes
]
;W[jc]WL[372.272]C[maproomad [-\]: B is Ohashi Hirofumi 6p 
]
;B[gg]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: Ya, depend on if B plays final move (filling a dame).
pookpooi [?\]: other room (Leela room) has reach its conclusion
]
;W[gh]WL[358.489]
;B[na]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[hf]WL[344.211]
;B[ge]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ka]WL[329.968]C[gghideki [?\]: now 99%
Clavicule [4d\]: wait how is it hard to decide black's threshold with 6.5 komi ? it's 183.75
]
;B[og]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[of]WL[315.694]
;B[ng]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ia]WL[301.494]C[Clavicule [4d\]: am i missing smth here ?
]
;B[oh]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[oi]WL[290.799]
;B[ja]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[sb]WL[276.547]
;B[sa]BL[30]OB[3]C[ghaele [4d?\]: w seems leading by 3 points
gghideki [?\]: As I wrote above, usually the final score is odd but merely even.  This is the problem
]
;W[ia]WL[270.618]
;B[eh]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[fg]WL[256.895]
;B[ja]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[jo]WL[242.645]
;B[ko]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[io]WL[233.602]
;B[pe]BL[30]OB[3]C[Clavicule [4d\]: in chinese rules it's not a problem, calculate the threshold (depends on komi) then compare the score to it
]
;W[pf]WL[219.323]
;B[kn]BL[30]OB[3]C[ilansk [14k\]: Zen win 
autom00v [?\]: are there any plans to release DeepZen for the Mac? or is the market too small?
]
;W[ia]WL[205.09]
;B[ci]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[bi]WL[191.508]
;B[ja]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ma]WL[177.25]
;B[ia]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: Yoji Ojima is a dedicated Windows commercial programmer.  So, the problem is there is no Mac programmer in our team 
x0000 [-\]: what would happen if w l6 instead of q14?..
]
;W[gs]WL[162.945]
;B[fs]BL[30]OB[3]C[autom00v [?\]: oh
]
;W[hs]WL[155.247]
;B[hk]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: also, Yoji or I don't know smartphones well :)
]
;W[gm]WL[140.994]C[egowrap: Is DeepZen's console debugging output similar to Zen6 dll's output?
]
;B[co]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[do]WL[132.642]
;B[de]BL[30]OB[3]C[autom00v [?\]: i meant the desktop Macs, not iOS. But the APIs are similar
]
;W[ee]WL[122.188]C[ibd [5k?\]: a convincing win by zen, congratulations!
gghideki [?\]: I haven't watched Zen6's logging output :)
]
;B[fe]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[lm]WL[107.92]C[egowrap: Aren't you seeing on every games?
pookpooi [?\]: W+4.5?
]
;B[dd]BL[30]OB[3]C[egowrap: I meant GTP output
crazyeight [8d\]: macs run on linux, right?
gghideki [?\]: Could you send the request to MyNavi (the publisher of Zen)
]
;W[oa]WL[93.604]C[x0000 [-\]: crazyeight, no
]
;B[np]BL[30]OB[3]C[autom00v [?\]: MacOS is a FreeBSD variant
DGoB1 [-\]: Ohashi Hirofumi still trying to squeeze out some point(s)
]
;W[nn]WL[80.181]
;B[sn]BL[30]OB[3]C[crazyeight [8d\]: shows how much I know about computers :\\
]
;W[ds]WL[65.946]
;B[cs]BL[30]OB[3]C[egowrap: I think porting to Mac is not difficult much
gghideki [?\]: Linux version 's log contains more info than GTP
ghaele [4d?\]: w+7.5
]
;W[sm]WL[53.259]C[autom00v [?\]: gghideki: i will, but have no hopes :)
]
;B[na]BL[30]OB[3]C[ilansk [14k\]: Zen winner
ibd [5k?\]: crazyeight, that's a slight confusion. mac uses a modified unix kernel, so linux and mac os are much more similar than linux and windows
]
;W[sn]WL[38.957]C[autom00v [?\]: Zen runs on Linux? I thought it was a Windows product. Or do you mean Wine?
ajahuang [?\]: gg, if Black is 7 point ahead, White must get the last stone. If Black is 6 point ahead, Black must get the last.
]
;B[oa]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[mf]WL[24.876]C[egowrap: It seems Zen team has linux version and also has ported windows version
]
;B[nf]BL[30]OB[3]C[ajahuang [?\]: because there are totally 361 points on the board.
]
;W[oe]WL[10.622]
;B[lf]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[me]WL[5.543]
;B[mq]BL[30]OB[3]C[gghideki [?\]: Zen hasbeen developed on Linux :).  Windows version and Linux ones share the same source code
DGoB1 [-\]: hi aja, why not in Oberhof?
egowrap: I think this is why commercial Zen uses engine dll
crazyeight [8d\]: the ruleset for this game is japanese
]
;W[ir]WL[30]OW[3]C[egowrap: Compiling engine code to dll is pretty easy
gghideki [?\]: yes, egowrap
]
;B[]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[]WL[30]OW[3]TW[la][lb][kc][lc][jd][ld][af][cf][rf][sf][ag][bg][dg][ah][bh][ch][ai][ci][ki][li][mi][ni][aj][bj][mj][oj][ak][nk][ml][nm][om][en][gn][fo][go][ho][ep][fp][gp][hp][jr][is][ks]TB[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][ga][qa][ra][ab][bb][cb][db][fb][hb][pb][sb][ec][gc][oc][rc][fd][ri][rj][sj][rk][il][rl][jm][oq][pq][qq][br][dr][qr][as][bs][ds][es][qs][rs][ss]C[ajahuang [?\]: I was in Oberhof, DGoB1, just back yesterday.
ibd [5k?\]: if zen was released as a GTP engine, people on mac could use it easily
ghaele [4d?\]: w win without komi
ajahuang [?\]: Good luck to Zen in China, gg. :)
pookpooi [?\]: good game
egowrap: But GTP engine is complicated to use for the people
ibd [5k?\]: gg
gghideki [?\]: thanks
raspberry [7k\]: good game
Ataraxia [2k?\]: gg
])
