(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[25/600 Canadian]
PW[tromp]PB[Zen19N]DT[2012-01-14]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Zen19N [-\]: GTP Engine for Zen19N (black): Zen version 8.7
PaperTiger [2k\]: 15 seconds early :)
wdom [12k\]: zen already froze ;)
palapiku [2d?\]: ooh, chinese rules
fluidistic [7k\]: with such settings zen will take lots of time for the first moves
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]BL[5360.595]C[fluidistic [7k\]: it's normal
Utraman1k [-\]: how strong is w?
thesirjay [11k\]: go human go
]
;W[dp]WL[5390.686]C[fluidistic [7k\]: he said 2d
speedchase [7k\]: strong EGF 2 dan
odnihs [-\]: 3-4d kgs ish i'd say
thesirjay [11k\]: hmm ouch
iju [2d\]: gogtogogog humans
speedchase [7k\]: almost 3d
odnihs [-\]: zen will win
fluidistic [7k\]: zen19N is approximately 4d KGS
thesirjay [11k\]: hummie needs a bit of luck
rjm [1d\]: go humans
kuronero [-\]: 3-4d only at 15s blitz. i think much weaker with so long settings. 2d sounds good.
thesirjay [11k\]: hope he has been playing some bots
]
;B[pp]BL[5334.344]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: egf 2d, right?
herissondu [15k\]: what is that?
palapiku [2d?\]: with that haircut, he doesn't need luck
]
;W[dd]WL[5382.513]C[yangshi [9k?\]: wow, how many Zen19s are there?
fluidistic [7k\]: Zen19 is 5 d or almost 6d in blitz games
blacklabel [1d\]: egf makes all the diffrence vs kgs
fluidistic [7k\]: and it's 4d in longer games
gogonuts [5d\]: first hundred kibitzes
AOA [-\]: he looks like the killer in Perfect Getaway
]
;B[pj]BL[5294.732]C[blacklabel [1d\]: well w play must be punished now :)
]
;W[nq]WL[5373.719]C[Drack [14k\]: ah, sanrensei
fluidistic [7k\]: bets guys?
fluidistic [7k\]: I bet on zen
Ukasuhs [3d\]: p5!
speedchase [7k\]: tromp 3-0
blacklabel [1d\]: im with w here
thesirjay [11k\]: actually he looks like the boy in meet the robinsons :)
jinayiku: a bot, not a chance..
slowdirect [7k\]: go w go
fluidistic [7k\]: ok
palapiku [2d?\]: really, sanrensei...
blacklabel [1d\]: its is a bet game
kuronero [-\]: w had anti-bot training
behelit: this dude is under so much pressure
]
;B[lc]BL[5260.123]C[waretsuyla [2k\]: how strong is Zen19?
fluidistic [7k\]: and bot has anti human training
neoncamo [-\]: No kidding behelit
fluidistic [7k\]: about 4d
hahaha364 [-\]: wat is tromp's rank?
wdom [12k\]: 2d
kuronero [-\]: no, bot has no training...
hahaha364 [-\]: k
Ukasuhs [3d\]: o5!
speedchase [7k\]: tromp is EGF 2d almost 3d
fluidistic [7k\]: w is 2d, b is 4d 
shyin [11k\]: betting on zen personally
gogonuts [5d\]: first slight slip
fluidistic [7k\]: ok
waretsuyla [2k\]: ok then 2d vs 4d here
harrimanez [1d\]: I for one do not welcome our computer overlords
fluidistic [7k\]: gogonuts, i want to hear your bet :)
]
;W[qn]WL[5337.709]C[skoj [-\]: 2d EGF is not 2d kgs. :)
speedchase [7k\]: you are comparing EGF and KGS
SexyShape [2k\]: can we bet real money ?
RunningFox [2d\]: m17 is interesting
fluidistic [7k\]: only honor IMO
gogonuts [5d\]: winning would be a very fine achievement for w
jj [-\]: m17 is surely not the best move
gogonuts [5d\]: but its a long way
RickSako [8k?\]: 2d egf like 4-5d kgs
behelit: play solid tromp... the bot will own you at life/death
]
;B[oo]BL[5222.597]C[hahaha364 [-\]: wait are there legit bets goin on this game?
speedchase [7k\]: no
odnihs [-\]: not 4-5d
odnihs [-\]: 3-4d maybe
]
;W[qq]WL[5323.859]C[fluidistic [7k\]: no legit bet
kuronero [-\]: yes, gotta win in the opening. otherwise no chance
odnihs [-\]: as much as i would like humans to win, i have some respect for zen :)
Hernee [3d\]: behelit, don't these bots use that monte carlo algorithm?
jj [-\]: sure still a chance
Drack [14k\]: zen does use monte carlo
Ukasuhs [3d\]: not sure why people think zen is such a great fighter. this isnt a blits game
fluidistic [7k\]: they use MC algorithm
wdom [12k\]: yes monte carlo
jj [-\]: but it gets harder
]
;B[el]BL[5185.958]C[harrimanez [1d\]: this one does (monte carlo)
RickSako [8k?\]: no bets last year tromp bet 1000 dollars and won this is rematch for fun.
Hernee [3d\]: Meaning, they most likely fail at L&D
Slogger [1k\]: why is this game on the top list ?
palapiku [2d?\]: .....
gogonuts [5d\]: woooooooooooooooooooooh
RayTomes [2d\]: thats a zen move
rjm [1d\]: nice one...
afar [3d\]: Hernee: That doesn't follow at all
fluidistic [7k\]: deep move
wdom [12k\]: :DD
indyra [1d\]: hehehe
odnihs [-\]: w is baffled
palapiku [2d?\]: subtle and profound
fluidistic [7k\]: it's a deep move :)
TBN [?\]: ？？？
sprang [-\]: misclick
nopaci: I bet zen wins, why did nobody bother to put up a beßt
Juippi [1d\]: basic joseki shape
gogonuts [5d\]: zen in the house
yangshi [9k?\]: Slogger: because it is a special demo, I believe
tesuji [-\]: R4
waretsuyla [2k\]: missclick lol
fluidistic [7k\]: this move will be relevant 100 moves ahead
jj [-\]: R4?
q11 [2d\]: r4 
kuronero [-\]: maybe not great fighter, but endgame is absolutely top notch. if you go to counting you know you lost.
afar [3d\]: It seems zen often plays rubbish openings, but tends to make up for it later
Hernee [3d\]: Poor B, making a misclick at a game like this
gogonuts [5d\]: w must keep his cool
RunningFox [2d\]: fun to watch this game:)
fluidistic [7k\]: not true kuronero
Liisa [2d\]: that was sanrensei move! first, tenuki jouseki and then play this!
RayTomes [2d\]: "waretsuyla [2k\]: missclick lol" Funny
fluidistic [7k\]: zen has evolved
fluidistic [7k\]: you can beat it in the counting
yangshi [9k?\]: well, I think the opening is hard in general to teach bots
indyra [1d\]: i'd play g17 now
fluidistic [7k\]: happened yesterday, zen lost by more than 60 points
gogonuts [5d\]: many good moves - the simplest one is r4
fluidistic [7k\]: game went to counting
waretsuyla [2k\]: ray not me :sprang [-\]: misclick
Opheliac [6k\]: is this zen, the 4d bot?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: i might play g4 here
neoncamo [-\]: W really isn't sure what to do here it seems
Drack [14k\]: aim for the open spot
Slogger [1k\]: r4 looks great
AutoAtari [1k\]: how about s2?
bonobo03 [3k\]: in former times we called E 8 the ear reddening move !
blacklabel [1d\]: s2 has bad aji
gogonuts [5d\]: time to use some time
blacklabel [1d\]: and is sucky
jj [-\]: s2 is bad
Ukasuhs [3d\]: ya, i like g4
Hernee [3d\]: W can't afford to be overconcertrated in that one corner
AutoAtari [1k\]: it connects both sides
AOA [-\]: ultimately, when bots will get really strong, they will teach us now to play, so it's nice to see the bots playing their own game
AOA [-\]: how*
gogonuts [5d\]: no sense blitzing against an outrage like e8
h2s0 [1d\]: what game is this?
reprisal [4d?\]: e8, nice
Hernee [3d\]: Or, at least, its risky
armada [5d\]: e8 are you kidding me
slowdirect [7k\]: is b drunk?
waretsuyla [2k\]: c6 here is the best move -_-
reprisal [4d?\]: what a sweet move
uguryldz [-\]: whats tromp's level?
RayTomes [2d\]: this is a 3 hour game!
fluidistic [7k\]: it's a Kasparov vs Deep blue like game
blacklabel [1d\]: r4 allows w to handle right side way easier
jj [-\]: not really
palapiku [2d?\]: if kasparov was 2d...
Slogger [1k\]: e8 is cool
jj [-\]: the kasparov part
gogonuts [5d\]: if this were a game between humans the scribe would apologize for the misclick :-)
iju [2d\]: lol
AutoAtari [1k\]: w is no Kasparov
Garen [8d?\]: if deep blue was 4d...
nopaci: F9
fluidistic [7k\]: F9??
qwazidan [2k?\]: zen seems to have a cosmic style
Hernee [3d\]: Garen, there are no stronger bots, but there are stronger players :/
]
;W[fp]WL[5113.721]C[Drack [14k\]: Hm!
Hernee [3d\]: W plays it safe
Garen [8d?\]: i could play the bot
Uberdude [2d?\]: yeah
Ukasuhs [3d\]: aww, not g4 :(
tesuji [-\]: yes, but Tromp is the de facto standard
megabeest [2k\]: what hardware runs Zen19N?
Garen [8d?\]: i beat his younger bro
katrinaK [-\]: i dont know if they let you
Uberdude [2d?\]: if i was b i would be aiming for f4 next
tesuji [-\]: until the bots can beat Tromp there's no point asking for a Kasparov
gogonuts [5d\]: will a second opportunity for r4 ever come?
Hernee [3d\]: I would probably have played this same move
afar [3d\]: megabeest: 'Zen will use a dual 6-core Xeon X5680, over-clocked to 4.2Ghz.'
flummox [2d\]: uberdude, you're behind the times!
jj [-\]: is zen thinking during w's time?
]
;B[pm]BL[5141.436]C[fluidistic [7k\]: yes
megabeest [2k\]: thank you
Uberdude [2d?\]: how?
jj [-\]: and is he considering how long w was thinking?
Hernee [3d\]: It is?
fluidistic [7k\]: yes it is
jj [-\]: or is it independant of w's thinking time
Hernee [3d\]: Thats pretty advanced
katrinaK [-\]: computer has a mind of it own 
Uberdude [2d?\]: i am saying w f4 is a nice move as it is a place b wants
afar [3d\]: More advanced than me
fluidistic [7k\]: i asked it to Hideki, he said yes
flummox [2d\]: ah
PaperTiger [2k\]: pondering isn't advanced, it's pretty simple
gogonuts [5d\]: q3 proper now
fluidistic [7k\]: it's independent JJ
skoj [-\]: Subtle hint that the move is thought through... or that the human went to the toilet. :)
fluidistic [7k\]: good thing the bot ponders
Hernee [3d\]: papertiger, not all that simple
gghideki [3k?\]: jj, Zen don't mind her opponent time
behelit: i see b's moyo play coming a mile away
Riitoken [11k\]: what is tromp's rank?
sunabukuro [2d\]: is this best of 5 or 10?
Opheliac [6k\]: what strength is tromp
jj [-\]: ok, thanks
afar [3d\]: tromp is EGF 2d
flummox [2d\]: bo5
Uberdude [2d?\]: maybe 3d kgs
qQQp [-\]: but this ponder uses telepathy to guess the move, that's advanced
Garen [8d?\]: the first pro bot will be created by a pro
Ukasuhs [3d\]: kgs 3d-5d
jj [-\]: well for an engine you could tweak it to spend more time if the opponent spent a long time
palapiku [2d?\]: i'm honestly excited to watch this game
jj [-\]: that would make sense
gogonuts [5d\]: i disagree garen
PaperTiger [2k\]: just think during your opponent's time, what is so hard about that?
inte [?\]: so what are the chances that the computer will overheat and go up in smoke?
palapiku [2d?\]: this is history in the making, however trivial
neoncamo [-\]: That would be irritating jj
katrinaK [-\]: is there a single bot that beat a pro?
Phelan [6k\]: Garen, i would expect a pro and programmer team
iju [2d\]: I choose you black!
gogonuts [5d\]: but surely pro input
fluidistic [7k\]: zen
speedchase [7k\]: not even
Hernee [3d\]: You have to later take into account that new move your opponent will make, so its difficult to figure out what sorta stuff can be processed during your opponents turn, papertiger
Uberdude [2d?\]: katrina, on 9x9, yes
fluidistic [7k\]: zen beat pro with 6 stones handicap, 9 p pro
Drack [14k\]: Bots are wicked at 9x9
jj [-\]: the goal of zen is not to be "non-irritating" but to win
murrmurr [4d\]: who is tromp?
Phelan [6k\]: doubt a pro would be a good programmer, with all the time devoted to go
behelit: i love to imagine the programmer watching and shouting "NO! What are you doing!"
Uberdude [2d?\]: a dutch guy
waretsuyla [2k\]: tromp is white -_-
Uberdude [2d?\]: who made beat in 1997 than no bot would beat him by 2010
Garen [8d?\]: some pros have degrees in computer programming
Uberdude [2d?\]: bet
neoncamo [-\]: jj- But taking more time just because your opponent does so doesn't make you win, it just annoys.
PaperTiger [2k\]: Hernee, simple answer is to just continue searching the tree as you wre the opponent
Opheliac [6k\]: a crazy guy you can see at the photo
]
;W[rr]WL[4963.656]C[palapiku [2d?\]: boo
skoj [-\]: Long thinking time is long. :)
Lotus [4d\]: haha
apetresc [1d?\]: Is this standard?
blacklabel [1d\]: oh no :=
inte [?\]: the pro may have been playing normally, not accounting for the bot's strength in endgame?
afar [3d\]: w thinking too hard
behelit: uh..
Drack [14k\]: あそこに？！
jj [-\]: it might make you win
Uberdude [2d?\]: hehe, this tesuji that is bad
Uberdude [2d?\]: too low
neoncamo [-\]: With humans yes, computers not likely
jj [-\]: S2 soo bad
waretsuyla [2k\]: looks like white wants the corner
Uberdude [2d?\]: too many b sente
blacklabel [1d\]: too yuck
Nyanjilla [-\]: interesting, though
sunabukuro [2d\]: Drack quit pretending to be Japanese
Alex88 [3k?\]: oh, it will be a long game
gogonuts [5d\]: too fancy for me, but cant be so bad
RayTomes [2d\]: haven't seen this before, but it makes sense
]
;B[hl]BL[5097.548]C[fluidistic [7k\]: lol
indyra [1d\]: hahaha
palapiku [2d?\]: zen the best
SexyShape [2k\]: rofl
Lotus [4d\]: i prefer q3. s2 has no continuation on the left side, there is too much aji
Uberdude [2d?\]: takemiya approves
Opheliac [6k\]: "never play on the second line, when the board is empty"
gogonuts [5d\]: next move is important
murrmurr [4d\]: it makes sense, you know
skoj [-\]: Forced to make E8 meaningful. :)
waretsuyla [2k\]: h8 looks small
jj [-\]: both are not so good at opening
blacklabel [1d\]: so eh g17 he
Ukasuhs [3d\]: g16
clydesdale [2k\]: cosmic zen
GralAnibal [5k\]: I only want to say 1 thing ...
GralAnibal [5k\]:  Go Tromp Go !!!
Uberdude [2d?\]: g16 or so feels important to me
blacklabel [1d\]: yeah g16
gogonuts [5d\]: minimum is g16
shyin [11k\]: weird game
Phelan [6k\]: Garen, really? could you provide a link to that? I would be very interested in reading about pros in programming
Ukasuhs [3d\]: have to stop b from getting approach in top left
tesuji [-\]: the move's ok, there's just some bad aji, there are joseki moves played on the second line all the time in the opening and nobody complains about that :)
Imagingo [17k\]: I'm cheering for the bot
neoncamo [-\]: Bots always play weird, why I hate playing them
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: wow
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: go tromp
waretsuyla [2k\]: c11!
neoncamo [-\]: Even the weak ones
Hernee [3d\]: papertiger, but how to take that into account when the move is made not by you, but by your opponent. Do you just save every path? When its gonna be your turn again, that search tree wouldnt be directly usable for anything, you gotta interpret it
RayTomes [2d\]: q14 will destry zen
AstaManana [8k\]: run run run 
fluidistic [7k\]: I'm rooting for bot too
skoj [-\]: I for one welcome our go bot overlords.
jj [-\]: S2 hurts my eyes
Hernee [3d\]: S2 is kinda bad, I think
Opheliac [6k\]: why does zen do move like that??
GralAnibal [5k\]: what kind of human are you rooting for the terminators?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: g16 please :)
murrmurr [4d\]: you enemies of human race
Hernee [3d\]: Its way too passive :/
Imagingo [17k\]: the lower right is surreal
fluidistic [7k\]: K4
Uberdude [2d?\]: Twi Meiko is pro and programmer
katrinaK [-\]: d16 seems trapped
RayTomes [2d\]: s2 saves both o3 and r6 doesn't it???
qQQp [-\]: Slow start for w. I voted 3-1 for zen in the website, now I would 3-0
PaperTiger [2k\]: Hernee, search the tree, save paths, and then when you get the actual turn, throw the rest away
SexyShape [2k\]: is this possible to get a sgf with the bot thoughts during the game ?
inte [?\]: it has so much moyo potential, how can you resist such a move? :)
h2s0 [1d\]: prepares f16
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: for more information about this game go to this site: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showdown-board-game-go/
fluidistic [7k\]: bot is biased toward center but i must say human is biased toward corner :)
blacklabel [1d\]: gotta do top
gogonuts [5d\]: maybe move right in
gogonuts [5d\]: like L14
Imagingo [17k\]: SexyShape - bot thoughts, wouldn't it just be a bunch of binary?
jj [-\]: go is not about saving stones but about having more territory in the end
blacklabel [1d\]: nah whats b move that would make int needed now?
katrinaK [-\]: how does s2 help?
RayTomes [2d\]: right jj
h2s0 [1d\]: dağlar gelir gelir geelir
quyx [4k\]: @sexyshape: guess it would be too large to be of any use
RayTomes [2d\]: s2 prevents both cuts
]
;W[gc]WL[4797.097]C[blacklabel [1d\]: w does have the submarine threat at s10 ish
Hernee [3d\]: I dislike W now
Uberdude [2d?\]: s2 connects both stones
mongol [?\]: too low
gogonuts [5d\]: looks slow here
jj [-\]: I dont get w
Hernee [3d\]: I think B is better off
Ootakamoku [3d\]: r17 or r14 instead of g17
Hernee [3d\]: W moves have been way too passive
jj [-\]: upper side seems not sooo important because M17 is low
gogonuts [5d\]: better off is saying too much, but w had an edge for a little while
tesuji [-\]: black H16 now?
Phelan [6k\]: thanks uberdude! *googlesTwi Meiko* 
Tom63 [16k?\]: looks to me like s2 lets w see which way b chooses, to go the other way
]
;B[hd]BL[5051.732]C[harrimanez [1d\]: H16 
indyra [1d\]: w kinda overconcentrated too
vliu12 [5k\]: how strong is tromp?
gogonuts [5d\]: w asked for it
wdom [12k\]: 2d
tesuji [-\]: ouch...
clydesdale [2k\]: these are extremely long time limits
wdom [12k\]: 2d
wdom [12k\]: 2d
wdom [12k\]: 2d
wdom [12k\]: ups
wdom [12k\]: lag
SexyShape [2k\]: Yswim, I wish a way to see if moves like E8 and H8 have any sense at all
murrmurr [4d\]: ...
PaperTiger [2k\]: gogo, what did you prefer instead of G17?
BigDoug [-\]: no more please wdom
jj [-\]: has to H17?
Hernee [3d\]: tom63, nope, S2 prevents both cuts
Phelan [6k\]: hmm. i like zen more now.
blacklabel [1d\]: hehe zen enjoys this
flakeman2 [9k\]: the bot definitely wants the center :)
]
;W[gd]WL[4760.302]C[fluidistic [7k\]: and human corner
fluidistic [7k\]: let's see what is bigger
GralAnibal [5k\]: bots want nothing
gogonuts [5d\]: g16 is needed
RayTomes [2d\]: hey, I just discovered that Tromp is author, with Taylor, of go rules derived from my ones (NZ rules)
armada [5d\]: takemiya in the house
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: wow Zen plays so good
murrmurr [4d\]: problem for white is that all black stones work together
GralAnibal [5k\]: desire is a human emotion
clydesdale [2k\]: i definitely prefer b
palapiku [2d?\]: the bot doesn't want anything, it just plays the best move to the best of its ability
RayTomes [2d\]: but it will look different after W invasion
Tom63 [16k?\]: maybe the center is easier to code strategy for
harrimanez [1d\]: bots want to understand love
]
;B[hf]BL[5007.59]C[blacklabel [1d\]: when can i r17 when can i r17 ^^
Imagingo [17k\]: Bots want nothing. They know only victory, and grind out whatever moves approach it
Slogger [1k\]: strong bots r always looking for the center   they r takemiya's no1 fans
Nyanjilla [-\]: that's Tei Meiko, BTW
Hernee [3d\]: W messed up the opening. S2 could very well have been the losing move
RayTomes [2d\]: q14 q14!
neophyte [5k\]: bots know nothing
armada [5d\]: does zen often play moyo?
bolbi [-\]: there's no centre strategy coded
fluidistic [7k\]: losing move that early? lol
afar [3d\]: I don't think S2 is a 2d level losing move
Imagingo [17k\]: only tennis bots want to understand love
ToDie [2d\]: i dont think s2 can be a losing move at this level
gogonuts [5d\]: come in at r14
murrmurr [4d\]: s2 hardly a losing move imo
jj [-\]: yeah better not play S2 at all, what's b's next move?
fluidistic [7k\]: it isn't
clydesdale [2k\]: time to invade
BigDoug [-\]: imagingo and harrimenez, please keep the comments about the game
Tom63 [16k?\]: still time for an invasion @ R14 or so
quyx [4k\]: kibitz hard work at this pace
afar [3d\]: J8 next
SexyShape [2k\]: invading now can't be that difficult
Riitoken [11k\]: ok so where is the invasion point(s) in the upper right?
mongol [?\]: take the plunge
RayTomes [2d\]: on average 20 kibitz per move
fluidistic [7k\]: D13
Hernee [3d\]: See, now W wants to take moves like N5
Hernee [3d\]: But N5 is bad now because of S2 :/
gogonuts [5d\]: no time for h15, sadly
gogonuts [5d\]: just go in
fluidistic [7k\]: w D13 is ok?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: p14
indyra [1d\]: q14
palapiku [2d?\]: d13 not okay
fluidistic [7k\]: ok
Hernee [3d\]: D13 is too slow
fluidistic [7k\]: thx
ToDie [2d\]: just r14 ?
Riitoken [11k\]: B + 60
RayTomes [2d\]: d13 can still be invaded
Hernee [3d\]: B moyo is now really important, W has to do something about it
gogonuts [5d\]: d13 would be terrible
Opheliac [6k\]: game over, zen wins
jj [-\]: R14?
gogonuts [5d\]: ignoring the b moyo, not securing the corner
yangshi [9k?\]: white should make some crazy invasion in the middle of b's moyo?
GralAnibal [5k\]: * writes down, never play d13
jj [-\]: simple invasion?
MrEmDash [2k\]: HEH, LOVE HOW OPH CAN TELL THAT AFTER 19 MOVES
MrEmDash [2k\]: oops
MrEmDash [2k\]: sorry for the caps =(
blacklabel [1d\]: q13 just do or die
Uberdude [2d?\]: l8 !
]
;W[id]WL[4582.262]C[katrinaK [-\]: when you someone to know what your saying that is when you use CAPS
GralAnibal [5k\]: s16 
indyra [1d\]: cat be good
gogonuts [5d\]: greedy
flummox [2d\]: too bad you can't query zen about his winning percentage
jj [-\]: it works
jj [-\]: seems ok
Hernee [3d\]: Q13 is not do or die. W would live, but B would win the game
fluidistic [7k\]: so far I'm surprised about w's moves, not b
murrmurr [4d\]: j15 j17 l15 
gogonuts [5d\]: taking points makes the invasion that must follow even more dangerous
afar [3d\]: I feel like if I played this at the london open and guo juan looked at it, she would tell w off for being too bookish
armada [5d\]: this is Awesome!  at first b's moves seemed terrible, but suddenly they seem all to work together!  
armada [5d\]: robot thinking
MrEmDash [2k\]: robot smart :P
]
;B[ie]BL[4967.627]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: works or not doesnt matter. you help zen complete the moyo
blacklabel [1d\]: well w has to stretch his livng :=
PaperTiger [2k\]: guys, if you want a dan-only commentary join my game, and I will allow only dans to chat
yangshi [9k?\]: flummox: you can look it up on http://kgs.gosquares.net/, can't you?
jj [-\]: J17 -> b will need another move
fluidistic [7k\]: ok paper
fluidistic [7k\]: let's go there
Phelan [6k\]: flummox, would definitely be interesting to look at win percentage throughout the game :)
Ukasuhs [3d\]: lol cause dans never troll the kibitz...
Riitoken [11k\]: B+50 here
RayTomes [2d\]: just making moyo stronger
gogonuts [5d\]: h17 is amust now
flummox [2d\]: yangshi, i mean it's internal live evaluation.
h2s0 [1d\]: i am dan and gone
jj [-\]: b has no territory at all yet
gogonuts [5d\]: take time to regret later :-)
jj [-\]: w already has 3 corners
yangshi [9k?\]: sorry, I misunderstood
Zarkin [2k\]: how strong is tromp?
MrEmDash [2k\]: Rii, you can't trust SE at move 21
MrEmDash [2k\]: he's 2d
jj [-\]: +komi
GralAnibal [5k\]: stronger than 2dan
Slogger [1k\]: he's kgs 4d
blacklabel [1d\]: w defacto has s2 :)
fluidistic [7k\]: thx papertiger
neophyte [5k\]: w corners not invadable?
GralAnibal [5k\]: around 4d i think
MrEmDash [2k\]: ok erm.. 2d EGF? i think
Riitoken [11k\]: MrEm.  I do not use the KGS SE
RayTomes [2d\]: SE vastly over-estimates influence value
Slogger [1k\]: 2d egf   4d kgs
PaperTiger [2k\]: need dans in my clone to review
gogonuts [5d\]: calls himself 2d, but from what i've seen thats too modest
afar [3d\]: Sounds like this 4d KGS number is pulled out of a magic hat
blacklabel [1d\]: go all 1ds
wdom [12k\]: paperTiger: now we only need dans
Imagingo [17k\]: What's Tromp's strength?
fluidistic [7k\]: we need dans to talk there papertiger
MrEmDash [2k\]: 4d KGS
palapiku [2d?\]: papertiger, w should play c1 now
h2s0 [1d\]: who said this works?!
MrEmDash [2k\]: hm?
RayTomes [2d\]: go back to after move 1 and use SE - the error of its influence calculation is obvious
gogonuts [5d\]: he took many faces apart in fighting, but thats not so wise against zen
]
;W[ic]WL[4444.915]C[blacklabel [1d\]: make walls
Nyanjilla [-\]: the SE can't do Chinese scoring anyway
MrEmDash [2k\]: Many Faces is weak
BOThater36 [5d\]: who is white?
blacklabel [1d\]: then zen will overheat
]
;B[ke]BL[4954.726]C[gogonuts [5d\]: L15 
gogonuts [5d\]: such a nice points
flummox [2d\]: yes many faces has 4k l&d
clydesdale [2k\]: q14 now!
gogonuts [5d\]: now b leads
spacetree [26k?\]: the webpage said the bet ended in 2011, is this a continuation of the bet or just for fun?
Riitoken [11k\]: B+48 here
h2s0 [1d\]: i bet on w
palapiku [2d?\]: invade invade invade
yangshi [9k?\]: well, if it had accurate Chinese scoring, it would only be off by a point or so
afar [3d\]: spacetree: A continuation for fun
afar [3d\]: No money this time
yangshi [9k?\]: in reality, it is off by a whole lot more than that
spacetree [26k?\]: ah
afar [3d\]: At least, not from the players
RayTomes [2d\]: W just helped B make moyo much stronger
blacklabel [1d\]: accurate ch. scoring:
blacklabel [1d\]: view offline
murrmurr [4d\]: see, i predicted 3 moves ahead, muahaha
MrEmDash [2k\]: :O
GriGriGo [2k\]: rii, everybody can use SE
blacklabel [1d\]: change rules to japanese
gogonuts [5d\]: ofcourse w can still invade and live, but the harrassment will be painful
Uberdude [2d?\]: lkook at m17, it's almost like b planned this!
Slogger [1k\]: murrmurr  good guess 
blacklabel [1d\]: then use se
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo sacrefyce his sleep for this game
jj [-\]: what about J9 ^^
Riitoken [11k\]: Gri I am not quoting the KGS SE
MrEmDash [2k\]: Uber, he did ^^
gogonuts [5d\]: now it looks more like k8
mongol [?\]: m8
jj [-\]: J9 directly challange b's plan
yangshi [9k?\]: some people can't use SE, if they don't have the client
RayTomes [2d\]: time that SE counting was fixed for other than Japanese rules - I know exactly the error, and it is easy to fix
qQQp [-\]: using SE in move 23 is a misconception about what SE is about
Uberdude [2d?\]: heh i was thinking l8
Riitoken [11k\]: the fact that the KGS SE happens to agree with mine is just a coincidence
MrEmDash [2k\]: you cannot predict a game like this this early
Slogger [1k\]: so......b won
]
;W[fg]WL[4352.63]C[Slogger [1k\]: omg
Slogger [1k\]: this looks bad
MrEmDash [2k\]: lol
gogonuts [5d\]: thats downright bad
murrmurr [4d\]: mremdash, kinda can
jj [-\]: I just wonder what b would play after J9
afar [3d\]: F13 seems like not the easy way into the moyo
blacklabel [1d\]: you can predictz game before it started
yangshi [9k?\]: b didn't win yet...
blade90 [5k\]: then something is wrong with your counting^^
Zarkin [2k\]: why does the bot sticks to moyo? shouldnt be moyo more difficult for it than territory play?
MrEmDash [2k\]: murrmurr, i mean, down to points
RayTomes [2d\]: Tromp is trying to out-Zen Zen
MrEmDash [2k\]: lol Ray
indyra [1d\]: should have invade inside the moyo i think
Slogger [1k\]: maybe he's not even 2d afterall
jj [-\]: doesnt seem too bad
Riitoken [11k\]: B+25 here
gogonuts [5d\]: counter expanding is hopeless here
]
;B[lo]BL[4906.98]C[megabeest [2k\]: why does tromp play 2:20 in the morning?
indyra [1d\]: h12
vliu12 [5k\]: wait for his heroic invasion later
gogonuts [5d\]: hes in new york
mongol [?\]: h12 for w now
blacklabel [1d\]: f13 has bad aji
Riitoken [11k\]: B+42
gogonuts [5d\]: nice
GralAnibal [5k\]: 2 am is perfect hour for GO
iju [2d\]: poke in soon
]
;W[qm]WL[4319.824]C[Slogger [1k\]: not really
palapiku [2d?\]: what else would you do at 2am
Highwayman [3d\]: because it's 20 pm in new york now
behelit: we've all watched too many 4d+ games, we forget how weak 2d really is
Ukasuhs [3d\]: its 8:25 in new york
gogonuts [5d\]: this game will be very tough to turn around
Riitoken [11k\]: ||| B+36
blacklabel [1d\]: time doesnt matter in NY
murrmurr [4d\]: i dont like m5 very much, i must say
jj [-\]: this game is extremely unbalanced
]
;B[ip]BL[4859.064]C[h2s0 [1d\]: becoz of?
cata [2k\]: whoa
gogonuts [5d\]: fuseki is actually the weakest part of the bots game. when the fuseki turns out great like this its awful for the opponent
MrEmDash [2k\]: o_O
neoncamo [-\]: We'll just see W resign in about three moves :P
armada [5d\]: does zen often play moyo?
Slogger [1k\]: always
MrEmDash [2k\]: oh my....
yangshi [9k?\]: jj: unbalanced = weird, or = one player is far ahead?
jj [-\]: w only has territory, b only has influence
speedchase [7k\]: zen always plays moyo
Riitoken [11k\]: ============ B+54
redundant [1k\]: MCTS bots tend to play high
MssrBlanc [2k\]: Monte Carlo bots undervalue corner territory
armada [5d\]: ooh
Tabemasu [6d\]: im not sure this fuseki is that great for B
clydesdale [2k\]: this game has a split personality
jj [-\]: unbalanced just means there is no balance between influence and territory
farhan [1d\]: J4 is an extremely strong attack !
ArtShZ [7k\]: D11?
]
;W[pl]WL[4269.835]C[behelit: w doesn't even have territory yet
BOThater36 [5d\]: J4 nice, typical bot move
MssrBlanc [2k\]: There are too many random playouts where unreasonable corner invasions live, so they think corner isn't good.. 
afar [3d\]: D11 very small
jj [-\]: you mean b?
gogonuts [5d\]: j4 doesnt attack anything much
Uberdude [2d?\]: b4 attack!
Ootakamoku [3d\]: with no double hane this will just make b thicker
blacklabel [1d\]: welll maybe its even afair split between terr and influence
apetresc [1d?\]: If white just plays R17 now, white will have 4 corners, and any well-programmed bot knows that means black must resign
Zarkin [2k\]: j4 is nice? oO
apetresc [1d?\]: They all have proverbs programmed in, right?
gogonuts [5d\]: but it closes the opening between h8 and m5
afar [3d\]: apetresc: No
jj [-\]: unbalanced has nothing to do with who is ahead
Ootakamoku [3d\]: I dont understand how this is supposed to work for w
apetresc [1d?\]: afar: joking :P
]
;B[ol]BL[4821.588]C[gogonuts [5d\]: still, as b i would have meekly answered r7 at q8
Riitoken [11k\]: >>> B+51
Ukasuhs [3d\]: cut i suppose
jj [-\]: P7
Liisa [2d\]: ootakamoku, it might work, because zen overestimates the center
Ootakamoku [3d\]: r8 is correct for w here asfaik
RayTomes [2d\]: can double hane by p7 p9 
blacklabel [1d\]: b is confident in the kikashi sacrifice to seal tesuji
jj [-\]: Q8 seems bad
Ukasuhs [3d\]: the double hane is a bad order. q7 is light that way
Ukasuhs [3d\]: have to cut first
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w could play p7 here I guess
h2s0 [1d\]: r10
gogonuts [5d\]: q8 is natural, but there is no great continuation ...
RobertT [-\]: r14 
Ootakamoku [3d\]: p7 p9 p6 
jj [-\]: b will sacrifice after P7
NattyIce [1d\]: im sure this has been said before but what is strength of w?
Tabemasu [6d\]: no good local move
Tabemasu [6d\]: time to tenuki
Ootakamoku [3d\]: r14?
armada [5d\]: upper left invasion?
cata [2k\]: nattyice: 2d egf
NattyIce [1d\]: ty
Uberdude [2d?\]: r16?
Zarkin [2k\]: p-6
]
;W[om]WL[4153.527]C[RayTomes [2d\]: yes
Uberdude [2d?\]: c5?
antipanda [6k\]: http://dcook.org/gobet/
blacklabel [1d\]: yeah w terr is full o holes
NattyIce [1d\]: so conjecturally evenish game
RayTomes [2d\]: o8
]
;B[nl]BL[4807.684]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: wow..
Ootakamoku [3d\]: sure didnt see that response for b
h2s0 [1d\]: omgg
RayTomes [2d\]: q9 
GralAnibal [5k\]: I am sure Tromp studied the bot before this game
MssrBlanc [2k\]: Tromp plays calmly. Or stubbornly, depending on the word you like. 
neoncamo [-\]: Tromp has played the bot before
Ootakamoku [3d\]: now tenuki will look ok
Tabemasu [6d\]: zen always seems to mess up center attacks
GralAnibal [5k\]: give him the chance to try his plan
Riitoken [11k\]: >>> B+44
gogonuts [5d\]: a little more of this and w r14 becomes completely impossible
farhan [1d\]: P6
AutoAtari [1k\]: oh haha, w played my s2 move (I was afk)
mongol [?\]: h12 no good?
]
;W[pk]WL[4105.608]C[RayTomes [2d\]: I called 3 in a row
Ootakamoku [3d\]: q9 looks so ugly
Ukasuhs [3d\]: how?
Riitoken [11k\]: >>> B+40
RayTomes [2d\]: q9 is great
rumak: p10
Ootakamoku [3d\]: like kyu move :P
Zarkin [2k\]: b p-10 too good imo
Slogger [1k\]: so  what's the bet ?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: its a lot better than b getting it
MrEmDash [2k\]: Riitoken, not to be mean, but can you stop?
illluck [2d\]: Q9 looks good
MrEmDash [2k\]: It's kinda annoying
]
;B[oj]BL[4771.228]C[illluck [2d\]: If black gets it in sente
SexyShape [2k\]: sansan and reduce, easy game for white
Ootakamoku [3d\]: and b becomes thick, w has no way to progress further from this direction, looks like a loss for w
gogonuts [5d\]: no, b is leading
Slogger [1k\]: F13 looks really bad
farhan [1d\]: P6 O6 O7
palapiku [2d?\]: F13 zen move
RayTomes [2d\]: o6??
]
;W[hh]WL[4042.769]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: cut!
Slogger [1k\]: cuuuuut
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b thinks r14 and r17 miai?
BOThater36 [5d\]: will zen counter H12?
Ludmila [2k\]: b at f13 would be worse
mongol [?\]: finally
SexyShape [2k\]: cut-e
armada [5d\]: big move here: willb  cut???
Ukasuhs [3d\]: cut would be terrible
yoga [2k\]: who is tromp?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: that cut aint realistic for b
antipanda [6k\]: http://dcook.org/gobet/
Uberdude [2d?\]: cut is good for kibitzers
jj [-\]: cut is too risky for b
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w will just get shape towards center
palapiku [2d?\]: it's zen. it will probably just tenuki.
]
;B[ff]BL[4720.412]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: if b dont cut, lose the lead
armada [5d\]: yeah i agree
cata [2k\]: ooh
Imagingo [17k\]: squish
GralAnibal [5k\]: Tromp is the human
armada [5d\]: extend
gogonuts [5d\]: ppretty strange probe
jj [-\]: E13?
Liisa [2d\]: r17 starts to be urgent
Slogger [1k\]: it's official  i don't understand this game
vliu12 [5k\]: meaning everyone else here is a bot
gogonuts [5d\]: nor urgent right now :-)
gogonuts [5d\]: not
]
;W[eg]WL[4002.434]C[rumak: r17 or r16?
AutoAtari [1k\]: cut where?
costco [2k\]: this some kind of special tournament
Riitoken [11k\]: B+25
googolplex [5k\]: ¿cual es el nivel de zen19 y el de Tromp?
gogonuts [5d\]: classic d15?
blacklabel [1d\]: cut here
Imagingo [17k\]: imagine when they invent kibitzing bots
blacklabel [1d\]: doesnt seem to work
wdom [12k\]: special tournament for "special" kids
suers [12k?\]: whos winning?
yoga [2k\]: lol
harrimanez [1d\]: 3d a 5d
apetresc [1d?\]: @imagingo, hahaha
]
;B[ih]BL[4691.978]C[harrimanez [1d\]: googol
Ukasuhs [3d\]: nivel es rank?
afar [3d\]: imagingo: Most people here are kibitzing bots
googolplex [5k\]: ohhhhhhh gracias harri
afar [3d\]: I mean, they'll deny it
GralAnibal [5k\]: mira la info, googolplex
speedchase [7k\]:  kibbitzing bot: "both players should tekuki"
harrimanez [1d\]: 10^googol
afar [3d\]: But do you honestly think these guys pass the turing test?
RayTomes [2d\]: wjo will make the first kibitzing bot?
Riitoken [11k\]: B+33
googolplex [5k\]: jejeje si 
armada [5d\]: interesting game
harrimanez [1d\]: these are specialty machines that would not play the turing test
Zarkin [2k\]: j-11
BOThater36 [5d\]: I dont think w is trailing
Ukasuhs [3d\]: ambos son mas o menos 4d
googolplex [5k\]: gracias anibal
RickSako [8k?\]: i think w is fine go tromp!
]
;W[ii]WL[3910.946]C[gogonuts [5d\]: w only not trailing if you consider the top left safe
BOThater36 [5d\]: risky
neoncamo [-\]: But the top left isn't safe....at all
Riitoken [11k\]: B+27
gogonuts [5d\]: now zen had enough
blacklabel [1d\]: only move
RayTomes [2d\]: listen to BH, he has one of best record against Zen
]
;B[hi]BL[4663.028]C[Zarkin [2k\]: crosscut
BOThater36 [5d\]: if w is 2d, he will collaps soon
Riitoken [11k\]: B+24
cata [2k\]: the computer and human are fighting!
googolplex [5k\]: todos los software tienden a ser moyos debe ser el mismo algoritmo cada uno a su nivel
blacklabel [1d\]: not kgs  2d
gogonuts [5d\]: otoh, the position cant be good for w either if he cant hane
BOThater36 [5d\]: EGF?
googolplex [5k\]: a hacer
neophyte [5k\]: tromp not afraid of zen's fighting skills
RickSako [8k?\]: egf 2d
BOThater36 [5d\]: then very strong
RickSako [8k?\]: almost 3d correct?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: tromp should be afraid of zens fighting skills
GralAnibal [5k\]: we must never be affraid or human kind will dissapear
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: its gettiong harder for W
RayTomes [2d\]: human kind will disappear
Imagingo [17k\]: G13?
BOThater36 [5d\]: even he is egf 2d, should not J11 hane
BigDoug [-\]: please keep the comments only about the game
Uberdude [2d?\]: zen is teaching us a new way to play go
Imagingo [17k\]: peep and connect after or cut?
hiss [-\]: he just avoid fighting
Uberdude [2d?\]: go seigen would approve
sunabukuro [2d\]: BD is still around?!?!  I thought he was gone!
blacklabel [1d\]: so j13 h13 k12 g12  coming?
]
;W[ig]WL[3793.862]
;B[jh]BL[4648.103]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: if zen plays h13 he deserves to lose
]
;W[hg]WL[3776.155]C[Riitoken [11k\]: B+27
blacklabel [1d\]: seen it before from zenny
Uberdude [2d?\]: i rignk zen is better than idiot bot and can spot atari =)
cjr [-\]: yes, not reasonable to give w a ponnuki considering that black is not  that  thick yet
RayTomes [2d\]: nice!
cyryts [2k\]: what is?
]
;B[jg]BL[4616.085]C[hiss [-\]: w wants to get as much as possible with reducing and then invade san-san
Uberdude [2d?\]: so will b play r16?
Uberdude [2d?\]: if he gets chance?
BOThater36 [5d\]: white wants F14
qwazidan [2k?\]: go w .. kick bot
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w j14 painfull for b
Liisa [2d\]: 3-3 is now urgent
RayTomes [2d\]: h10 surely
megabeest [2k\]: response to k14?
gogonuts [5d\]: center is getting insane
Zarkin [2k\]: yep
blacklabel [1d\]: f14 nice... but gote
cjr [-\]: black is thick, i think b will win
BobWhoosta [1k\]: So what is this game again?
armada [5d\]: H10 and just ruuunn
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White is shodan?
apetresc [1d?\]: 2d EGF
RayTomes [2d\]: Bob, its called "go"
palapiku [2d?\]: f14 is a stone...
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Whoa Ray, I wasn't asking for specifics.
Lotus [4d\]: h9?
blacklabel [1d\]: yeah eat f14 with j14 k14 k15 g14  eg
apetresc [1d?\]: lol
blacklabel [1d\]: makes w corner way stronger
Ootakamoku [3d\]: can w get away with h10?
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo, is S2 normal and good move?
nopaci: r16
Ukasuhs [3d\]: i think if wants to try h10 he has to probe k14 first
embeck [3k\]: BobWhoosta: http://bit.ly/AFkadJ
]
;W[qj]WL[3643.168]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: nooo! terrible shape
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I've seen S2 a few times, it always annoys me, but that doesn't mean it's good.
gogonuts [5d\]: its almost never played, but now that b is so thick its actually good
Ukasuhs [3d\]: must be s10 locally
Riitoken [11k\]: good move
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White may be waiting too long to go after that center.
blacklabel [1d\]: it annoys you?
Zarkin [2k\]: w is maybe too calmly reducing. why not r-16?
Riitoken [11k\]: B+4
armada [5d\]: is w planning to just 3-3?
]
;B[qi]BL[4576.068]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: bob, w is desperately trying to get to the center already
BOThater36 [5d\]: I hate s2
Uberdude [2d?\]: b gonna kill the 3-3 =)
gogonuts [5d\]: usually its not played in the shape because its so low and the opponent gets easy eye shape
Ootakamoku [3d\]: he aint waiting
Riitoken [11k\]: B+21
farhan [1d\]: r they playing tournament ?
GralAnibal [5k\]: i dont think Tromp is desperate
gogonuts [5d\]: soon 3-3 wont work anymore
neoncamo [-\]: No, this is just a fun game
GralAnibal [5k\]: he is cool minded, and I am sure he has a plan
AutoAtari [1k\]: it's all fun and games until somebody loses $1000
blacklabel [1d\]: 3-3 already late with this hane ?
hummel [3d?\]: what's insane about the center is that one gets insance when one only thinks about the center
costco [2k\]: would the 3-3 invasion take waya enough territory to win
redundant [1k\]: I'm sure he has a plan
antipanda [6k\]: http://dcook.org/gobet/
palapiku [2d?\]: no money at stake... just eternal shame
redundant [1k\]: I don't think it's a viable one
]
;W[ri]WL[3581.586]C[hummel [3d?\]: white should just play c5 and already get half of the points of the center in the corner
Uberdude [2d?\]: darrenn cook already lost $1000
Riitoken [11k\]: B+6
vliu12 [5k\]: i thought they were playing for 1k
farhan [1d\]: y so much thinking time ?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: they are better on the series
neoncamo [-\]: vliu-They already did that, tromp won
Ukasuhs [3d\]: not each individual game
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: W is invading
vliu12 [5k\]: this ones free?
GriGriGo [2k\]: Rii what's the point of updating us at every move ?
neoncamo [-\]: Yea
]
;B[rj]BL[4534.768]C[MssrBlanc [2k\]: The $1k bet was not against this bot. 
]
;W[qk]WL[3575.783]C[MssrBlanc [2k\]: It was against Many Faces of Go. 
GralAnibal [5k\]: I agree with GriGri
fluidistic [7k\]: riitoken is accurate, but I agree, good around the end :) 
Riitoken [11k\]: Hey GriGri ... the score marks are not for you
Riitoken [11k\]: they are for me
jj [-\]: is w planing K14?
fluidistic [7k\]: for me too
pliskin [6k\]: O5 inc
Riitoken [11k\]: I plan on saving this SGF
Opheliac [6k\]: this move just looked like tromp has made a trap and zen fell into it
]
;B[rh]BL[4504.315]C[Riitoken [11k\]: so chill dude
fluidistic [7k\]: I will ask you riitoken around the end if you don't mind
GralAnibal [5k\]: ritoken posts are more annoying than the few no game related we had
suers [12k?\]: i like being told the score
fluidistic [7k\]: but continue so far if you want
neoncamo [-\]: I like the updates Riitoken
Zarkin [2k\]: its not only fun: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showdown-board-game-go/
]
;W[ok]WL[3557.753]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: white must use aji here and do something in the middle
palapiku [2d?\]: does 3-3 still work after this?
fluidistic [7k\]: I like his updates too
Uberdude [2d?\]: he tells us SE?
]
;B[nk]BL[4487.188]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i would like a pros estimate now on the objective outlook for r17
neophyte [5k\]: w creating cutting points?
BOThater36 [5d\]: look like must save J11 now
Uberdude [2d?\]: or some bit evaluation?
xcvcxv: w's situation went lot worse
Opheliac [6k\]: now he strikes
jj [-\]: w should first have played K14 maybe
jj [-\]: but K14 is a gamble
jj [-\]: because then B G11 will be sente
neophyte [5k\]: so now comes the invasion probably?
BOThater36 [5d\]: or r17?
]
;W[qc]WL[3481.424]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: im right
Imagingo [17k\]: here comes san-san
TomoyaKun [3d\]: fail
pliskin [6k\]: BOOOm
RayTomes [2d\]: now or never!
googolplex [5k\]: ohhhhhhhhhhhh
palapiku [2d?\]: now kill this
palapiku [2d?\]: easy tsumego
Jonahx [7k\]: Oh S***!
TomoyaKun [3d\]: w gained few here
BOThater36 [5d\]: not easy to kill, too much aji
Ukasuhs [3d\]: hes doing it now while b cant try to kill it
Ukasuhs [3d\]: too much aji to let it run out
Jonahx [7k\]: W +80
h2s0 [1d\]: he says I would happily bet that I won’t be beaten in a 10 game match before the year 2011 
h2s0 [1d\]: but 2012?
Uberdude [2d?\]: he won that bet
MssrBlanc [2k\]: The bet is over. 
]
;B[cn]BL[4439.35]C[h2s0 [1d\]: wow
speedchase [7k\]: this is for fun
Uberdude [2d?\]: lol!
cdocdo [2k\]: but b still has c3 and c17
cata [2k\]: lol!
blacklabel [1d\]: ha
palapiku [2d?\]: haha! tenuki!
neophyte [5k\]: oh my god
speedchase [7k\]: err what?
cdocdo [2k\]: oh
googolplex [5k\]: reduction reduction
Detroit [13k?\]: yeah he played against a laptop...
fluidistic [7k\]: wow
Uberdude [2d?\]: oh my
Ukasuhs [3d\]: bots. make. so. much. sense.
shyin [11k\]: lol
GralAnibal [5k\]: Tromp doing good
cata [2k\]: robot go is the best go
fluidistic [7k\]: zen rules
AutoAtari [1k\]: good move
Ukasuhs [3d\]: well r16
gogonuts [5d\]: bot has the biggest electronic cojones
garlique [7k\]: only a robot would tennuki there
RayTomes [2d\]: must B4
blacklabel [1d\]: good move bad timing
Uberdude [2d?\]: zen is too damn cool
blacklabel [1d\]: w was bound to live in gote at top
armada [5d\]: top right sooo big....
garlique [7k\]: i should say "then"
h2s0 [1d\]: what prize did he gain?
palapiku [2d?\]: zen is inspirational
RayTomes [2d\]: bottom left bigger
]
;W[co]WL[3429.231]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: "must" b4 just like you "must" answer r17, right?
afar [3d\]: I saw a pro game the other day where something like this happened
Imagingo [17k\]: Someday the bots will make moves that make no sense, but they'll be right. 
Imagingo [17k\]: zen may think side is more points
BOThater36 [5d\]: if you cant kill, tenuki can donfuse human, although may not be good tatic
afar [3d\]: So zen must be pro
Imagingo [17k\]: and can grab it easier
fluidistic [7k\]: zen is the living proof you can mess up around in the fuseki and be a dan player :)
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I have a sneaking feeling Zen will win this game.
caribbean [3k\]: w is not bad
Jonahx [7k\]: $5 on the human
cdocdo [2k\]: c3?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: R17 going unanswered, wow...
blacklabel [1d\]: b play top right now
RayTomes [2d\]: c3 ... not yet
AutoAtari [1k\]: 500000 Zimbabwe dollars on zen!
fluidistic [7k\]: I bet 3 hours of my life on zen
gogonuts [5d\]: zen messed around, but he didnt mess up - had a very good fuseki
]
;B[pc]BL[4384.382]C[Imagingo [17k\]: B plays mid-center?
JeansebL [4d\]: top left is no cash, I don't like how w is playing
gogonuts [5d\]: so the ole double hane
BOThater36 [5d\]: zen is not stupid
murrmurr [4d\]: only ignorant
blacklabel [1d\]: like so many human  players
]
;W[qd]WL[3389.67]C[rs220675 [1k\]: i think zen is leading bigtime...don't forget that he can still invade at c17 and c3/e3
BOThater36 [5d\]: why gogo wasnt chosen to play zen???
gogonuts [5d\]: actually, maybe b s15 after w 
murrmurr [4d\]: s15?
redundant [1k\]: i love how in go robotic play is some of the most ... creative
vliu12 [5k\]: human player are ignorant and stupid
neophyte [5k\]: was c5 necessary and not play in the top right corner?
gogonuts [5d\]: s15 looks tempting now ...
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Stupidity by definition requires some level of intelligence.  Zen is asentient.
cata [2k\]: true in chess at the highest level redundant
cata [2k\]: computers come up with remarkable moves
caribbean [3k\]: top right was alive anyway
redundant [1k\]: I know little about chess, so I'll concede the point
]
;B[qe]BL[4338.155]C[fluidistic [7k\]: lol
Uberdude [2d?\]: bots revolutionised backgammon opening theory
]
;W[re]WL[3382.771]C[RayTomes [2d\]: doesn't h10 work for W? but what if B gets to d11 or vicinity first?
caribbean [3k\]: really
gogonuts [5d\]: but zen too happy with the position to play s15
BOThater36 [5d\]: flu is 7k!!
RayTomes [2d\]: s13
fluidistic [7k\]: sigh, yes
blacklabel [1d\]: chesss concedes here, period :)
caribbean [3k\]: he was 9k the other day
fluidistic [7k\]: I only play bots now
BOThater36 [5d\]: good to u
pliskin [6k\]: FLU I CHALLENBGE U TO A DUEL
fluidistic [7k\]: I play against humans rarely under my other account
BobWhoosta [1k\]: His play became more solid.
AutoAtari [1k\]: I failed to beat him with h7, no wonder he's 7k :)
Ukasuhs [3d\]: at least w made s2 look better
palapiku [2d?\]: come on double hane
]
;B[qf]BL[4290.902]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: But then his name will be forced to change soon...
BOThater36 [5d\]: zen cant double hane 
palapiku [2d?\]: :(
fluidistic [7k\]: if you guys are interested in ṕlaying me, look up my account in my profile
illluck [3d\]: Yesk, double-hane looks disastrous
RayTomes [2d\]: ayabot double hane all the time - why not zen?
illluck [3d\]: yes*
blacklabel [1d\]: hane and connect
h2s0 [1d\]: wt
blacklabel [1d\]: or leave it ko ^^
BOThater36 [5d\]: who would be interesting in playing you? flu, haha
]
;W[rf]WL[3335.635]C[fluidistic [7k\]: the 6k
GralAnibal [5k\]: i do
fluidistic [7k\]: pliskin
BobWhoosta [1k\]: BOThater, apparently you would.
BOThater36 [5d\]: maybe ;-)
vliu12 [5k\]: wow u werent kidding about the playing bots thing lol
BobWhoosta [1k\]: You play his alternate account all the time.
BigDoug [-\]: please keep the comments only about the game
murrmurr [4d\]: BO, who are you rooting for
BOThater36 [5d\]: arr, stupid me
bolbi [-\]: could you focus on the game, please ?
BOThater36 [5d\]: I take no site this time
afar [3d\]: Can B Q18 now?
fluidistic [7k\]: Bothather ? is that a joke... his name says it!
]
;B[de]BL[4242.323]C[caribbean [3k\]: w has used more time
BOThater36 [5d\]: side
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I can't help but feel white is going to fall behind.
rs220675 [1k\]: j11 becomes more and more important
blacklabel [1d\]: yeah w wants sente imho
blacklabel [1d\]: hehe
PaperTiger [2k\]: dan-only reviews happening in my clone game
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: Oh Ow
Imagingo [17k\]: way more time. another tennuki?
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: line 13 group is in trouble
caribbean [3k\]: no tenuki
googolplex [5k\]: dangeorus
xcvcxv: L9
indyra [1d\]: e15?
hiss [-\]: w can't connect?
qwazidan [2k?\]: b is programmed for evil
Ukasuhs [3d\]: maybe just c16
nopaci: c16
palapiku [2d?\]: zen never plays tenuki - there's only one board and that's there it plays
company [4k\]: can someone put this game in perspective, please? I thought nothing was at stake here.
RayTomes [2d\]: W e13 will com under threat
palapiku [2d?\]: the future of the human race is at stake
BOThater36 [5d\]: good point, pala
cata [2k\]: nothing except, you know, the dignity of humanity
garlique [7k\]: It's a best of 5 match of some kind
caribbean [3k\]: and diginity of bots
BOThater36 [5d\]: as long as zen play withtin 19X19, he plays
blacklabel [1d\]: this is the price w paid for f13
]
;W[cd]WL[3229.435]C[company [4k\]: okay, but how does this game differ form other zen vs. amateur dan games?
pliskin [6k\]: Who is the human =
gogonuts [5d\]: i just knew zen would play d15, but i was off by 30 moves :-)
BigDoug [-\]: palipiku and cata, please keep the comments only about the game
fluidistic [7k\]: w is human
Tetriste [1d\]: I root for zen, I've always been impressed by it
BOThater36 [5d\]: narr, B too thin there
pliskin [6k\]: yes bu t what rank
caribbean [3k\]: this is much slower game
fluidistic [7k\]: about 3 or 4d kgs
RayTomes [2d\]: tenuki is human concept from "follow sound of the stones" - bot just lloks at position, not last move
cjr [-\]: yes, i think tromp offered some prize if a bot can  beat him in 5 match game
gort171 [1d\]: Tromp bet $1000 no bot could beat him in a 10 game series
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w has j14 at any time so that w group in no danger
illluck [3d\]: But that's to end of 2011?
cjr [-\]: only $1000 :(
caribbean [3k\]: thats was for 2011
garlique [7k\]: This is a new series
company [4k\]: but that's not for this game. no money at stake.
blacklabel [1d\]: b just kikashi here since can come from left anyway
]
;B[pn]BL[4184.377]C[ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: wow
BOThater36 [5d\]: if tromp is 0.25 stone stronger than gogo, I am on tromp's side
Uberdude [2d?\]: hah
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: good move
garlique [7k\]: Best of 5, no wager this time
Ukasuhs [3d\]: kikashi is not a move that seals an open corner for your opponent
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: sente move
Imagingo [17k\]: interesting way of putting tenuki. maybe we should think likewise
caribbean [3k\]: now w secured corner
RayTomes [2d\]: danger for W
Slogger [1k\]: some people really don't know how to spend their money
fluidistic [7k\]: I'm afraid b looks awesome here :D
blacklabel [1d\]: curse the gods, defend r5
Uberdude [2d?\]: interesting
BOThater36 [5d\]: dare zen play ko here?
Uberdude [2d?\]: b makes s9 better, or invites w to fix b's aji
RayTomes [2d\]: if w plays q11 then s14 looks silly
hiss [-\]: does w have experience of playing against Zen?
blacklabel [1d\]: with b s9? and ko? cmon w has to defend
caribbean [3k\]: yes
RayTomes [2d\]: if B gets s9 r8 then ko with r5 s5 s4 
suers [12k?\]: i think tromp is worrying too much
pliskin [6k\]: Q5 disaster
blacklabel [1d\]: maybe w s9
cjr [-\]: expensive ko for b to start though
fluidistic [7k\]: w's position is quite complicated
BOThater36 [5d\]: if tromp lose this series, he will become BH35
pliskin [6k\]: 6*
Imagingo [17k\]: definitely spending too much time. It's only going to get worse, I think
sankojingz [1k\]: who are the two players?
blacklabel [1d\]: make the ko less heavy for w 
Tetriste [1d\]: bh35?
RayTomes [2d\]: lol BH35!
RayTomes [2d\]: Bot Hater
Tetriste [1d\]: oh lol
fluidistic [7k\]: sanko: Tromp (human) vs Zen (computer)
RayTomes [2d\]: there are many BotHater numbers ysed
caribbean [3k\]: why a countdown
BOThater36 [5d\]: honor him
RobertT [-\]: its a ranking
nopaci: h5
sankojingz [1k\]: computer? are u kidding me?
BOThater36 [5d\]: he is very strong
fluidistic [7k\]: no I'm not
fluidistic [7k\]: 4d in long games computer
murrmurr [4d\]: computers dont kid around
farhan [1d\]: white is tromp and black is robot Zen
qwazidan [2k?\]: w getting bot kicked ?
murrmurr [4d\]: they are not built for it
fluidistic [7k\]: 5d, almost 6d in blitz
jubjub [2k\]: tromp is only 2d?
illluck [3d\]: That's on stronger hardware, though?
fluidistic [7k\]: kgs 3 or 4d
sixofclubs [12k?\]: Zen19N is quite strong
farhan [1d\]: Black is at most 5 kyu
fluidistic [7k\]: no, intermediate hardware
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp is strong 4dan
fluidistic [7k\]: 12 cores
hiss [-\]: w needs r5, right?
fluidistic [7k\]: stronger hardware is 26 cores
illluck [3d\]: I mean the 5d account
farhan [1d\]: no he isnt
fluidistic [7k\]: no it's not
sixofclubs [12k?\]: for a bot
fluidistic [7k\]: under the weaker account
sankojingz [1k\]: not interstered in this kind of game. bye
Yaoundee [4k\]: and white? how strgon?
cjr [-\]: well, b most likely stronger in this game as well, difference is because human players find it harder to adjust to blitz
caribbean [3k\]: i thought zen didnt play moves like E8 anymore
garlique [7k\]: Anyone have any insight into why Zen19N isn't on more hardware?
farhan [1d\]: Tromp might be strong 5 kyu
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo can u explan zen's mind set of Q6?
Tetriste [1d\]: zen19d is almost 6d blitz, zen19s is barely 5d slow
Yaoundee [4k\]: :/
fluidistic [7k\]: it's on intermediate hardware
jubjub [2k\]: garlique: more hardware does not help much
SexyShape [2k\]: did someone thought about programming a visual representation of what's happening in Zen reasonning ?
garlique [7k\]: ok
gogonuts [5d\]: im wondering myself
]
;W[qg]WL[2942.182]C[MssrBlanc [2k\]: Point of the bet is that the hardware shouldn't be extravigant. 
BigDoug [-\]: please keep the comments only about the game
fluidistic [7k\]: hardware difference is 1 stone
RayTomes [2d\]: s9 to start with
gogonuts [5d\]: could be its doing to well
murrmurr [4d\]: q6 does have some merit
Ukasuhs [3d\]: q6 gives b s9 in good sente so theres a lot less jai with the q11 cut
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Wow, that's a pretty bold move.
Ukasuhs [3d\]: aji*
armada [4d\]: welcome to aji city
BOThater36 [5d\]: hard to define comment on game only BigDOng
gogonuts [5d\]: i dont consider q6 a strong move
xcvcxv: Q6 is to not let w get bigger share of the corner
Slogger [1k\]: S9
Slogger [1k\]: free
murrmurr [4d\]: now white cant answer s9 by taking q6
pliskin [6k\]: Q6 disaster
murrmurr [4d\]: which is a merit of itself
]
;B[rg]BL[4134.019]C[Theseus33: :))
farhan [1d\]: Q6 secures center territory and if not answered there is s9 and ko
Imagingo [17k\]: S8 will be a disaster too I think
Ootakamoku [3d\]: there is noway b should surive all that aji
BOThater36 [5d\]: Q6, that's why human can beat bot
cjr [-\]: s9 ko is very expensive for b to lose as well though
hiss [-\]: r5 may lead to ko, right?
caribbean [3k\]: if this doesnt work for w, w lost
fluidistic [7k\]: what's wrong with Q6?
reprisal [4d?\]: also zen is not generally that good at ko
BobWhoosta [1k\]: It's slow fluidistic.
BOThater36 [5d\]: it is just matter of probability that MCTS will slip
Tetriste [1d\]: is zen weak at surviving aji?
RayTomes [2d\]: yes, afters9 r8 then r5 can be ko
SexyShape [2k\]: zen responded faster no ?
purp [5k\]: o10
fluidistic [7k\]: slow ok but good IMO
]
;W[pb]WL[2871.051]C[gogonuts [5d\]: q6 has one saving grace: a nica atari at s9
reprisal [4d?\]: slow is by definition bad
fluidistic [7k\]: :(
Ootakamoku [3d\]: q18 looks wrong
caribbean [3k\]: why
purp [5k\]: slow is bad?  tell your lover that
Ootakamoku [3d\]: gives b a chance to fix up the aji
gogonuts [5d\]: q18 looks right to me
BOThater36 [5d\]: Q18 20 points at least
Ukasuhs [3d\]: q18 is good
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I agree Oot, if Q18 is correct then R13 is wrong anyway.
Ukasuhs [3d\]: b cant p18
purp [5k\]: if you have one
rs220675 [1k\]: but it gives white sente
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b p15 and most of the aji is gone
Ludmila [2k\]: sente and j8
gogonuts [5d\]: why not
hiss [-\]: p18 p17 ?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: and w gets o18 continuation
]
;B[ch]BL[4071.622]C[RayTomes [2d\]: why B can't p18?
nopaci: gogonuts so it is a good strategy to produce a lot of aji against MC?
cata [2k\]: : O
Tetriste [1d\]: wtf lol
Ukasuhs [3d\]: p18 q15
apetresc [1d?\]: ???
Slogger [1k\]: lol
Tetriste [1d\]: wow
Uberdude [2d?\]: tromp was a good european 2d in 2005
Ukasuhs [3d\]: or... just q15
Opheliac [6k\]: lol
fluidistic [7k\]: moyo
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Well, there's another way to approachthe situation.
gogonuts [5d\]: psycho bot strikes again :-)
Tetriste [1d\]: thats a declaration of war
shyin [11k\]: zen style
fluidistic [7k\]: good move
suers [12k?\]: nice attack
hiss [-\]: tenuki magic
nopaci: kill e13
fluidistic [7k\]: open territory
BobWhoosta [1k\]: If you reduce my moyo, I'll have to build another one!!!
Slogger [1k\]: b plays with the entire goban
qQQp [-\]: computer is smart and sexy
BOThater36 [5d\]: white start fighting back, zen in "^$#*" mode
hummel [3d?\]: so out of topic
farhan [1d\]: I'd check blacks answer on J14
Opheliac [6k\]: rofl you cant threat zen
SexyShape [2k\]: I am sexy
fluidistic [7k\]: zen looks healthy to me
caribbean [3k\]: this doesnt feel like zen
BOThater36 [5d\]: hi, sexy
hummel [3d?\]: upper left is urgent
hiss [-\]: j14 also may lead to ko?
hummel [3d?\]: upper right sorry
palapiku [2d?\]: BH, does zen think it's losing?
RayTomes [2d\]: as W I would worry about 5 stones now
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w j14 now?
BOThater36 [5d\]: not sure, dont think so
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Problem is the local position is quite large as well.
fluidistic [7k\]: only Zen Author and Hideki know
neophyte [5k\]: is this desperation from b?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Which has more value?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w e14 connects back to corner anyways
fluidistic [7k\]: they know what zen thinks
BOThater36 [5d\]: feeling it is time/chance for human
farhan [1d\]: ZEN sure is a female robot :-)
Ukasuhs [3d\]: i personally think that if w answers this after b ignores q18 then w is too scared
fluidistic [7k\]: may I know the winning % Hideki?
katrinaK [-\]: this game is going on for so long
katrinaK [-\]: i could finish 2 of my games
spacetree [26k?\]: is zen married
hiss [-\]: maybe just e14 now?
fluidistic [7k\]: 1 hour 6 minutes
fluidistic [7k\]: not that much
katrinaK [-\]: thats why he has a son
hdomanic: oh wait is she computer or a robot playing on computer?
katrinaK [-\]: zen junior
RayTomes [2d\]: space tree, do you want to have zen's babies?
hummel [3d?\]: just p17, black has to answer
BOThater36 [5d\]: Im in Vegas, instead of setting in black jack table, I am watching, any bet for me?
BigDoug [-\]: I'm going to have to start booting for non-game comments
shyin [11k\]:  happy with zen's play?
Opheliac [6k\]: very entertaining how zen never answers forcing moves
Ootakamoku [3d\]: could someone stronger comment on w j14 here?
]
;W[di]WL[2694.739]C[pyramids [1d\]: Is this one of daren's gobet games, or just practice?
gogonuts [5d\]: maybe a chance to fight with d11
gogonuts [5d\]: right
farhan [1d\]: robots are far above our level they dont marry to be happy
Tetriste [1d\]: I think h15 on j14?
D977: where do go players meet in Las Vegas?
Imagingo [17k\]: if zen never answers the focring moves, are they forcing moves?
spacetree [26k?\]: /m bigdoug sorry
gogonuts [5d\]: d11 looks natural
Tetriste [1d\]: I'm not stronger tho
RayTomes [2d\]: d11 prepare for h10 g11 g10 
shyin [11k\]: hideki, are you happy with zens play?*
caribbean [3k\]: w answered
spacetree [26k?\]: *oops
fluidistic [7k\]: Zen Author, what is zen win%?
nopaci: preparing H10
Persians [2k\]: p17,o16
Ukasuhs [3d\]: well, as long as w gets sente i think its ok
]
;B[ci]BL[4012.632]C[reprisal [4d?\]: w doesnt really deserve sente
gghideki [3k?\]: I'm too weak to think about her play :p
Opheliac [6k\]: im not sure who leads, but tromp is zen's slave
Detroit [13k?\]: hideki only provided the computer, he didn't write Zen
Ukasuhs [3d\]: b doesnt deserve to tenuki q18...
fluidistic [7k\]: :)
RayTomes [2d\]: h10
caribbean [3k\]: her play? zen is female?
vliu12 [5k\]: its
RayTomes [2d\]: zen is  computer!
BOThater36 [5d\]: h11 may becaome gift
reprisal [4d?\]: that would be a nice gift
farhan [1d\]: White please check J14
czark [2k\]: in Hebrew, programmes are feminine :)
reprisal [4d?\]: way better than a sweater
Persians [2k\]: p17,o16 later?
fluidistic [7k\]: I wonder what is the winning percentage of zen... if Hideki knows or Zen Author, please let us know :)
Uberdude [2d?\]: but not as good as socks
suers [12k?\]: because they do what you want?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: locally w can cut at q15
suers [12k?\]: thats rather sexist
caribbean [3k\]: lol
neophyte [5k\]: so was d11 c11 exchange good for w?
gghideki [3k?\]: 54% for C11
Persians [2k\]: e13 group look like safe
afar [3d\]: If w gets H10 now, I think so
fluidistic [7k\]: thank you very much Hideki
BOThater36 [5d\]: hmm, only 54%
fluidistic [7k\]: that's good
gogonuts [5d\]: w aiming at h10
fluidistic [7k\]: 54% isn't bad
BOThater36 [5d\]: bad for bot
fluidistic [7k\]: nah
Ukasuhs [3d\]: cant h10 yet, at least it wont kill h11
reprisal [4d?\]: yeah they are optimistic
Imagingo [17k\]: F-11 for black, maybe?
fluidistic [7k\]: zen isn't as optimistic as other bots
fluidistic [7k\]: I trust him
foureyes [5k\]: how is fromp = ?d
RayTomes [2d\]: why h10 doesn't kill h11?
caribbean [3k\]: f11 bad
fluidistic [7k\]: for the nth time: 4d kgs or 5
Uberdude [2d?\]: reading
gogonuts [5d\]: still, even zen is biased towards its own perception
caribbean [3k\]: look for gote in sensei's
Ukasuhs [3d\]: just keep extending, ray
gogonuts [5d\]: 54% isnt great
fluidistic [7k\]: ok
murrmurr [4d\]: nah, zen is perfect
BOThater36 [5d\]: 54% for zen to me is 50/50 at least for humna
Tetriste [1d\]: not necessary optimistic, it's never 100% and its never 0%
fluidistic [7k\]: well said tetriste :D
gghideki [3k?\]: yes, even
Ukasuhs [3d\]: at what % does he resign?
BOThater36 [5d\]: trend started to turn after Q6
Persians [2k\]: if w answer, B may g11
Uberdude [2d?\]: time to check overtime settings
Tetriste [1d\]: I think I heard something like 20% before
]
;W[dj]WL[2457.92]C[Tetriste [1d\]: not sure
fluidistic [7k\]: hmm? I thought 5%
farhan [1d\]: first white group H13 must live
RayTomes [2d\]: this makes h10 work then
gghideki [3k?\]: maybe 20%
Ukasuhs [3d\]: if b answers i feel w must tenuki to upper right
fluidistic [7k\]: it's not fixed
Uberdude [2d?\]: b g11 i guess
BOThater36 [5d\]: does white get mia? gogo
SexyShape [2k\]: Q6 makes a Ko at R5 no ?
gghideki [3k?\]: I don't remember the number :p
fluidistic [7k\]: in a game against a 10k zen lost and was around 7% winning rate
Tetriste [1d\]: ok
]
;B[ck]BL[3960.547]C[Tabemasu [6d\]: how many games in this series?
gghideki [3k?\]: depends on handicaps
fluidistic [7k\]: this is the first
shyin [11k\]: 5
gogonuts [5d\]: d15 and c12 look like a pretty poor combination now
]
;W[hj]WL[2448.973]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: 5 tabemasu
indyra [1d\]: best of 5
Uberdude [2d?\]: oh look, c6 makes sense!
Tabemasu [6d\]: ok
Uberdude [2d?\]: bot too strong reading
Tabemasu [6d\]: thanks
gogonuts [5d\]: compare with a w attachment at c16
fluidistic [7k\]: H11 dead IMO
BOThater36 [5d\]: I always say B too thin there
caribbean [3k\]: good imo
Ukasuhs [3d\]: d15 c16 exchange looks terrible now
]
;B[gi]BL[3919.818]C[fluidistic [7k\]: oh wow
gogonuts [5d\]: b attachment i mean
Tetriste [1d\]: g11 is ok
Uberdude [2d?\]: capture 2 stones is only 1 eyes!
]
;W[gj]WL[2435.854]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: or maybe not even that
Persians [2k\]: b p17,o16 later, b destroyed
reprisal [4d?\]: h11 h8 e8 shape is almost always too thin
ram [1k\]: what is the special event?
Tetriste [1d\]: you dont want to let w get g11 even if h11 is dead
fluidistic [7k\]: is D6 any good?
afar [3d\]: It doesn't seem very interesting
reprisal [4d?\]: its big but there are many big points on the board
caribbean [3k\]: i think B6 better now
RayTomes [2d\]: not the time for D6
reprisal [4d?\]: like upper right
fluidistic [7k\]: ok thx
indyra [1d\]: now w looks good
Starstorm [4d\]: i really want to play Q15...
reprisal [4d?\]: the board runs much hotter than a human game would
]
;B[fi]BL[3863.493]C[RayTomes [2d\]: whoa!
Tetriste [1d\]: w got only one big eye
reprisal [4d?\]: since no human 5d would ignore q18 :)
RayTomes [2d\]: what does Zen see?
fluidistic [7k\]: zen sees gold there.... 
neophyte [5k\]: tromp must be worried now
Ludmila [2k\]: dont like h10
Ukasuhs [3d\]: this w group is in 0 danger
reprisal [4d?\]: i'm sure he trusts his reading
AutoAtari [1k\]: it sees dead stones
]
;W[fj]WL[2397.633]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: theres forcing moves on literally every side of it
cjr [-\]: h10 is nice, w is winning
costco [2k\]: something with g13?
Ludmila [2k\]: d14 would connect
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: wow
farhan [1d\]: that doesn't work for black
Tetriste [1d\]: g14 
BOThater36 [5d\]: to me, B's only chance is ko on R5
nopaci: g13?
harrimanez [1d\]: go meatbags!
Uberdude [2d?\]: cmon guys, w only 1 eye here
Ludmila [2k\]:  and j8 alive
Uberdude [2d?\]: b gonna kill it all
fluidistic [7k\]: I'd applause the bot
]
;B[ij]BL[3821.195]C[murrmurr [4d\]: whoa...
caribbean [3k\]: meatbag sounds familiar...
armada [4d\]: whaaa????
]
;W[ji]WL[2388.605]C[Slogger [1k\]: zen should play the ko with R5
gogonuts [5d\]: there goes the moyo
Uberdude [2d?\]: think like a bit
BOThater36 [5d\]: with D15 stone u want to kill white? no kidding
murrmurr [4d\]: what is going on here
reprisal [4d?\]: i think it may indeed be trying to kill all
Ukasuhs [3d\]: is zen in self-destruct mode?
Maayan [1d\]: is this the first game?
Imagingo [17k\]: here we go
fluidistic [7k\]: yes it's the 1st game
Uberdude [2d?\]: b is killing
Maayan [1d\]: thx
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: B advantage is down to 10 points
Tetriste [1d\]: zen good at counting liberties?
Imagingo [17k\]: when is game 2?
armada [4d\]: that could be a game-losing move
Phelan [6k\]: doesnt F11 leave white with one eye?
Phelan [6k\]: *lag
fluidistic [7k\]: tomorrow
Ootakamoku [3d\]: zen is good at counting liberties yes
reprisal [4d?\]: d15 kikashi has no fear
fluidistic [7k\]: same hour
]
;B[ei]BL[3788.955]C[reprisal [4d?\]: it will contain!
gogonuts [5d\]: wow
fluidistic [7k\]: wow
Ootakamoku [3d\]: well, atleast infinitely better than the other bots on kgs
caribbean [3k\]: where is meatbag from
fluidistic [7k\]: chapeau to zen
BOThater36 [5d\]: game pretty much over
Tabemasu [6d\]: lol, it it really going for the kill
Tabemasu [6d\]: is it*
reprisal [4d?\]: yeah
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: see this Imagingo: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showdown-board-game-go/
farhan [1d\]: black tries to rid white from eyespace
Liisa [2d\]: who won?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: oh corse it is... its zen
Uberdude [2d?\]: as i said many moves ago =)
murrmurr [4d\]: maybe a dead shape kill
Ukasuhs [3d\]: theres just one problem. this si not blitz
Persians [2k\]: look like b   overplay
]
;W[ej]WL[2350.764]C[murrmurr [4d\]: it could happen!
Starstorm [4d\]: wow if B can kill that I will have a whole new respect for ZenGo
reprisal [4d?\]: there are many problems
reprisal [4d?\]: b is not thick anywhere around is the biggest though
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: wow
nopaci: L9?
]
;B[ki]BL[3757.002]C[indyra [1d\]: this w wont die i think
]
;W[jj]WL[2346.53]C[AutoAtari [1k\]: w can take the 4 stones, it's only 1 eye
cyryts [2k\]: b gave up?
megabeest [2k\]: w can just connect ?
gogonuts [5d\]: no
caribbean [3k\]: if b extends then its going for the kill
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: W takes lead now
gogonuts [5d\]: will protect the stone
]
;B[ik]BL[3728.366]C[hdomanich: yellow lives easily
Starstorm [4d\]: he's going for it
rs220675 [1k\]: IMO it's not fair that this is a free game...tromp can watch all comments while playing and we have some high dans here....
RayTomes [2d\]: only one eye, but W can either connect or make 2nd eye after this
GralAnibal [6k\]: W has e14  later
cata [2k\]: tromp cannot see comments
hahaha364 [-\]: lol
Tetriste [1d\]: there's no such thing as taking the lead anymore ALVEDEGUZ
AutoAtari [1k\]: no he can NOT
Ootakamoku [3d\]: l10 m10?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: tromp cant see the comments
reprisal [4d?\]: even if he could
yoga [2k\]: only teaching game can
farhan [1d\]: white can walk through and join G16
Tetriste [1d\]: its do or die
reprisal [4d?\]: who would read kibbitz while playing
Ukasuhs [3d\]: only in teaching games can the players see the comments
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: oh
reprisal [4d?\]: what a waste of time
indyra [1d\]: e15 connect, no?
BOThater36 [5d\]: k9?
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: lol
caribbean [3k\]: tromp could be logged in as a another user
cyryts [2k\]: e14 enough?
chf75: There's no way he could concentrate and read the comments.
reprisal [4d?\]: better to think
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: estimator just change
gogonuts [5d\]: must L10
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: lol
reprisal [4d?\]: people seriously overvalue kibbitz
rs220675 [1k\]: but it's a free game-type of game on KGS so you usually can see all comment, why not tromp
AutoAtari [1k\]: if he could see them, he would lose at least 3 stones
cjr [-\]: if e14 then d12 and  take the 3 stones
RayTomes [2d\]: L10
Uberdude [2d?\]: there is nothing special about free games
cjr [-\]: w is pretty bad
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: B is so strong in the center
Uberdude [2d?\]: if ranked he can log in as other user and read kibitz too
qQQp [-\]: I zen reads the kibitz it will hate humanity even more
RayTomes [2d\]: W is OK
jubjub [2k\]: needs to be teaching to see them
caribbean [3k\]: e14 then what
murrmurr [4d\]: kibitz is 50% more likely to get l&d right compared to SE
AutoAtari [1k\]: players can never see kibitz in free games
Tetriste [1d\]: b is strong at reading though, I've seen amazing stuff sometimes
brockman [7k\]: l10 
cjr [-\]: d12 i think
farhan [1d\]: E14 E 15 G14F15 G15
flummox [2d\]: random coin toss is as good as kibbitz l&d
reprisal [4d?\]: pretty hard to read out a kill from here
nopaci: w should take some time now
caribbean [3k\]: and w goes out
gogonuts [5d\]: i would rather die as w than give the 3 stones
caribbean [3k\]: but b saves the stones
farhan [1d\]: its white to play and i show how
Ukasuhs [3d\]: ya lol i would have played l10 instantly
reprisal [4d?\]: i would just be arrogant and assume no way i die here
fluidistic [7k\]: i thought u guys said north east was urgent? :D
farhan [1d\]: i showed how
Tetriste [1d\]: for a computer with ''unlimited'' thinking process, I wouldn't be surprised he's read something
brockman [7k\]: i said it
caribbean [3k\]: not anymore
BOThater36 [5d\]: Zen combine with Watson, he can read and utilize out kibitz
chf75: What the heck is an unlimited thinking process?
fluidistic [7k\]: tromp will suffer in time
ram [1k\]: what is the special event?
AutoAtari [1k\]: does zen calculate during w's time?
Maayan [1d\]: why isn't zen using more time?
fluidistic [7k\]: yes autoatari
caribbean [3k\]: tromp might resign here
fluidistic [7k\]: no maayan
AutoAtari [1k\]: that's cool
gogonuts [5d\]: byoyomi is enough for endgame 10/25
reprisal [4d?\]: supposedly more time doesnt help MC AI very much
fluidistic [7k\]: it does a bit though
reprisal [4d?\]: it reaches a conclusion about which move to play quickly
Persians [2k\]: l10, k9 both ok? no different
RayTomes [2d\]: L10 is good, as W has K14 to follow
Ootakamoku [3d\]: weird place for w to read so much
armada [4d\]: seems w has to play L10 and kill the stones, hope to live
Ootakamoku [3d\]: maybe he is taking a smoking break
hdomanic: dollars are gone
farhan [1d\]: how come they contracted so much thinking time ?
gogonuts [5d\]: more time help just as much as a faster machine, ofcourse - but it helps humans even more
Uberdude [2d?\]: i don't tihnk w considered capturing h11 might not be a success
Ootakamoku [3d\]: l10 looks like only move, I dont understand what else w can even consider here
fluidistic [7k\]: well he's got to understand and meet zen
]
;W[kk]WL[2070.171]C[fluidistic [7k\]: hence the time taken
Ukasuhs [3d\]: to egf 2d he knows easilly that its not 2 eyes yet lol
fluidistic [7k\]: a man like bothater or gogonuts would play faster I guess
Ootakamoku [3d\]: how is this move good, it just allowes b to choose..
Uberdude [2d?\]: yeah by now
reprisal [4d?\]: l9 puzzles me
Ukasuhs [3d\]: at the same time he should never fear dying here
Starstorm [4d\]: L9 not ideal...
Uberdude [2d?\]: but not when he playewd d10
farhan [1d\]: completely off the real stuff
BOThater36 [5d\]: Oo, regardless how  chose, there is aji
zebra131 [6k\]: so he can kill the h12 group right?
Uberdude [2d?\]: when he d10 he thinks "this lets me capture h11 => great for me"
reprisal [4d?\]: i cant even imagine dying with this many liberties surrounded by flimsy black stones
ram [1k\]: should have been l10 right?
RayTomes [2d\]: w gets to "tromp" all thru b moyo!
]
;B[kl]BL[3678.923]C[reprisal [4d?\]: d15? e8? these stones can not kill things
murrmurr [4d\]: eh..
gogonuts [5d\]: good move
Persians [2k\]: l10 ?
Starstorm [4d\]: oh wow..it might die???
gbh: o10
armada [4d\]: L10
farhan [1d\]: well now its beginning to bore me
Uberdude [2d?\]: b doesn't lose so much for w running
caribbean [3k\]: l10 looks bad
fluidistic [7k\]: i think b outplayed w by a lot
gogonuts [5d\]: L9 really looks bad now
BOThater36 [5d\]: flu?
Slogger [1k\]: w totally alive
reprisal [4d?\]: it looked really bad always
ram [1k\]: M9 only option to me
hiss [-\]: there everywhere are b stones
gogonuts [5d\]: lol, yes
Persians [2k\]: l10, or w will be killed
rs220675 [1k\]: but the game seems close....
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: OH
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: w dies here
Tabemasu [6d\]: lol
Tabemasu [6d\]: no way
Tetriste [1d\]: good reading
fluidistic [7k\]: I guess zen knows
caribbean [3k\]: w has to try something crazy at top right
hiss [-\]: h10 was probably bad plan
Ukasuhs [3d\]: "crazy"?
Tabemasu [6d\]: if w plays k9
Tabemasu [6d\]: he is 100% alive
nopaci: tabemasu who wins the semeai?
farhan [1d\]: L10
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w cannot lose the semeai
gogonuts [5d\]: but b cannot lose sente
ram [1k\]: why l10?
ram [1k\]: make liberties, l9
Ukasuhs [3d\]: both make liberties
ram [1k\]: M9 I mean
armada [4d\]: d12 is rough, otherwise w could sacrifice
ram [1k\]: M9 makes more liberties than l10
Ukasuhs [3d\]: m9 does not make liberties the same way k9 or l10 does
qQQp [-\]: k9 k8 then what?
Tabemasu [6d\]: m9
caribbean [3k\]: m9
Slogger [1k\]: m9
Tabemasu [6d\]: w is too thin to kill
BOThater36 [5d\]: bot force human to spend one full hour to survive
Tetriste [1d\]: b*
Tabemasu [6d\]: yes :)
Hernee [3d\]: Maybe the bot tries to win by time?
Narayana [1d?\]: did someone unplug tromp?
hiss [-\]: this was the plan
farhan [1d\]: L10 because black needs to take whites libs and then W L12 etc will give black the option to connect
]
;W[kj]WL[1765.837]C[snissen: If time runs out, is it a forfeit or just scored at that time?
flummox [2d\]: empty triangle can't be wrong
qQQp [-\]: but w needs 2 eyes, so making more libs is not a solution
cjalden [2k\]: there is byo-yomi
rs220675 [1k\]: c3 worries me for white...if black invades there white has something to do there and basically no more territory there
RayTomes [2d\]: if he plays L10 now, then L9 was bad wasn't it?
Uberdude [2d?\]: snissen, you can't score an unfinished game
Phelan [6k\]: forfeit, snissen
BOThater36 [5d\]: the only good empty triangle is bad empty triangle
]
;B[li]BL[3630.562]C[gogonuts [5d\]: lol hater
caribbean [3k\]: all roads lead to m9
Tabemasu [6d\]: well, w still lives but it's a little more gross
farhan [1d\]: now still there is J14
Tetriste [1d\]: no
reprisal [4d?\]: still w got fairly far into the moyo for "free"
Tetriste [1d\]: j14 is bad
farhan [1d\]: yes
nopaci: K8
armada [5d\]: k8?
Tetriste [1d\]: j14 k14 g14 m9 and b is happy
Ukasuhs [3d\]: m8
hiss [-\]: but moyo now became territory
illluck [3d\]: G8
illluck [3d\]: Maybe?
Yuniba [4k\]: E12?
blacklabel [1d\]: cut side you dont want
apetresc [1d?\]: g12 > e12
illluck [3d\]: Oh, but white needs libs
SexyShape [2k\]: can white live without connecting ?
hdomanic: noo
Persians [2k\]: k8 help g9 eye
Uberdude [2d?\]: illluck stronger than me!
illluck [3d\]: XD
farhan [1d\]: @tetriste:  question is how to live !
Liisa [2d\]: F8 might have some aji for a spare eye
farhan [1d\]: live with the main bulk !
]
;W[fh]WL[1596.361]C[Tetriste [1d\]: wow
RayTomes [2d\]: w cannot get more than 3 libs, so eventually must come back to capture (as he just did)
Tetriste [1d\]: b gets to fix
RayTomes [2d\]: but why not play m8 etc first and reduce moyo?
SexyShape [2k\]: it looks like a bad move
]
;B[lk]BL[3589.431]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: now how can b seal all and prevent w from making 2 eyes
dragonx [13k?\]: there was no winning
gogonuts [5d\]: instead of L10 k9 was better, even though it looks terrible
qQQp [-\]: d12  kills all
]
;W[eh]WL[1582.092]C[ram [1k\]: gote one eye might be hard on w
RayTomes [2d\]: m10 g12 h11 g11 k9 h11 
RayTomes [2d\]: then what?
fluidistic [7k\]: i wonder what is winning % now..
farhan [1d\]: its only one eye in gote
hiss [-\]: does p18 p17 p16 work for b?
Slogger [1k\]: w alive
gogonuts [5d\]: becuase after k9 k8 m9 ect w has the important atari at h9
RayTomes [2d\]: yes, but B is weak above
Opheliac [6k\]: power square
Ukasuhs [3d\]: p18 q15
caribbean [3k\]: e14
Liisa [2d\]: winning rate is perhaps 43%
garlique [7k\]: the only thing more powerful than a b2
BOThater36 [5d\]: B needs 1 move to seal line 9 and one and half to seal line 14
]
;B[cq]BL[3534.396]C[fluidistic [7k\]: looks like a tetris shape
Imagingo [17k\]: sansan
murrmurr [4d\]: thought so
RayTomes [2d\]: B thinks W alive
cdocdo [2k\]: oh
BOThater36 [5d\]: C3 human move
Tetriste [1d\]: its not my shape
uurtamo [-\]: upper right is fairly enormous.
cjr [-\]: yes, just widen the battle ground ^^
dragonx [13k?\]: this bots a monsyer!
fluidistic [7k\]: Liisa... u are saying w wins?
nopaci: zen called a pro?
gogonuts [5d\]: w must be very careful - the group above is still precarious
fluidistic [7k\]: no, nopaci
uurtamo [-\]: w's problem will be reduction.
RayTomes [2d\]: SE says W win even after C3 (which is dead haha)
BOThater36 [5d\]: zen didnt gain anything from attack cneter white group
Liisa [2d\]: yes, w already won.
hiss [-\]: p18 q15 q14 p15 o17 what then?
murrmurr [4d\]: that's optimistic
]
;W[bp]WL[1483.163]C[gogonuts [5d\]: im still with b
fluidistic [7k\]: I'm with b too
caribbean [3k\]: zen played cosmic style
Narayana [1d?\]: w is really taking his time
nopaci: zen wants to kill either d4 or g10
embeck [3k\]: I think w q15 works
RayTomes [2d\]: I think W won when he got to play h10
BOThater36 [5d\]: human uses his time wisely this game
]
;B[eq]BL[3504.629]C[Persians [2k\]: e3 maybe
murrmurr [4d\]: definitely
BOThater36 [5d\]: that C3 and E3 are totally human moves
BOThater36 [5d\]: gg, are you sure no one behind :-)
Persians [2k\]: b4 misread,
]
;W[fq]WL[1443.917]C[gghideki [3k?\]: yes, even
Uberdude [2d?\]: so now some sente in e6 area
jj [-\]: R12 for w
Riitoken [11k\]: I've got black leading
Uberdude [2d?\]: kill time
]
;B[fr]BL[3478.243]C[Tetriste [1d\]: just need f2
Persians [2k\]: canot kill?
cyryts [2k\]: doesn't b owe a move on top right?
gogonuts [5d\]: zen is good at making invisible mystery points - one of its favorite ways of winning is having the opponent achieve every goal, but still win
fluidistic [7k\]: lol
Ukasuhs [3d\]: im sure zen has "favorites"
]
;W[gr]WL[1407.697]C[cjr [-\]: CrazyStone is actually better at that particular think, imo
cjr [-\]: thing
uurtamo [-\]: zen is also a reduce monster.
Riitoken [11k\]: and whan I say "I" I am not referring to the kgs se
BOThater36 [5d\]: like that term "invisible point", cant see from me, but can be seen by high dan or pro
]
;B[er]BL[3458.349]
;W[hq]WL[1405.286]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: thats why zen always beat me
hiss [-\]: b alive?
RayTomes [2d\]: always!
Persians [2k\]: w c4 weak
qQQp [-\]: did the bot tell you it was its favorite? ;-)
indyra [1d\]: solid win for W?
RayTomes [2d\]: b alive, and w can maybe get cut in two
caribbean [3k\]: b3
]
;B[ep]BL[3420.649]C[gogonuts [5d\]: no
]
;W[eo]WL[1402.151]C[nopaci: some w will die
RayTomes [2d\]: cut
gogonuts [5d\]: still tough game for w
cjr [-\]: I don't see how b alive though?
indyra [1d\]: ok, tx =)
BOThater36 [5d\]: both lives here, but b gains in invasion
Tetriste [1d\]: b just cuts
Liisa [2d\]: cut is dangerous, for b
terrymac [2d?\]: we can infer the bot's preferences from its observable behavior. standard Austrian School subjective value theory
]
;B[dn]BL[3393.41]C[nopaci: 3 potentially killable groups
hiss [-\]: alive through killing w?
Tetriste [1d\]: and then you wont see how w is alive
RayTomes [2d\]: yes hiss
RayTomes [2d\]: d5 f5 then what?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: then kill b...
armada [5d\]: b2
caribbean [3k\]: d6...
wdom [11k\]: :D
caribbean [3k\]: b wants everything
blacklabel [1d\]: the problem is if w f5 d5 then what too
]
;W[do]WL[1343.874]C[hiss [-\]: I think w is now starting to feel something
googolplex [5k\]: mario estas ahi?
Uberdude [2d?\]: e14 ?
gogonuts [5d\]: any sensible player would play b3 now
mrgomez [14k?\]: sip
AutoAtari [1k\]: was he paralized before?
gogonuts [5d\]: but i fear zen might cut
illluck [3d\]: Zen seeing something interesting?
garlique [7k\]: no one ever called zen sensible
googolplex [5k\]: que grupo me preguntaste?
]
;B[fo]BL[3356.828]C[Tetriste [1d\]: why not cut gogo
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
armada [5d\]: oh shit
BOThater36 [5d\]: hohoho!
Ukasuhs [3d\]: zen must die
Opheliac [6k\]: zen is badass
hiss [-\]: cut first, think later
Ukasuhs [3d\]: push and peep
Opheliac [6k\]: hahaha
Liisa [2d\]: w is a liberty problem!
pilaf [4d\]: go computer go
Liisa [2d\]: has*
Avalon0487 [5k\]: lol
caribbean [3k\]: b3
armada [5d\]: g5 then b2?
BOThater36 [5d\]: if zen dare to cut, he reads
BOThater36 [5d\]: not good for w
Uberdude [2d?\]: this removes w eyes at f8
Opheliac [6k\]: white will die somewhere and lose
Imagingo [17k\]: ohh my
Uberdude [2d?\]: one w group will die
Phelan [6k\]: Liisa, i prefered the "is"
Phelan [6k\]: :p
Imagingo [17k\]: both if he's not careful!
pilaf [4d\]: c3 bomber
Tetriste [1d\]: w will not just die, he will explode
Persians [2k\]: b2 not good idea
Riitoken [11k\]: is there anybody out there who has w in the lead here?
thanush [3d\]: is this the first game?
armada [5d\]: yes
googolplex [5k\]: yes
caribbean [3k\]: yes
RayTomes [2d\]: so which move did w get in to trouble here?
googolplex [5k\]: firts 
BOThater36 [5d\]: this is too much, I mean F5, can it show some mercy...
hiss [-\]: I think this will be over soon
nopaci: yes
googolplex [5k\]: first
RunningFox [2d\]: overplayed?
Riitoken [11k\]: too bad there isn't wagering on kgs
AutoAtari [1k\]: after it wins, it can show mercy too :)
GralAnibal [6k\]: whos winning now?
garlique [7k\]: skynet, i mean zen shows no mercy
Viictorm [4k\]: what dan this bots? 
ram [1k\]: first of what?
Imagingo [17k\]: when is game 2?
caribbean [3k\]: 2morrow
terrymac [2d?\]: set it up on intrade
hiss [-\]: does Zen think during opponet's move?
nopaci: b3
Tetriste [1d\]: I think he does
Riitoken [11k\]: well the SE i suee (not kgs) requires that you declare the dead groups
wdom [11k\]: has to
gghideki [3k?\]: yes, hiss
Viictorm [4k\]: what dan this bots? 
thanush [3d\]: how strong is tromp?
AutoAtari [1k\]: if it gets a 30 point lead, it might give you back 10 or 20
Ukasuhs [3d\]: push and peep
wdom [11k\]: atleast on blitz it has to
GralAnibal [6k\]: why so many silly questions and not try to focus on the game?
Riitoken [11k\]: but during this game several groups have changed L&D status so 
Tetriste [1d\]: tromp is about 3-4d kgs
farful [9k\]: both bot and tromp are about 4dan kgs
RayTomes [2d\]: W should have e4 before B did I think
BOThater36 [5d\]: isnt it wonderful if we have somekind of electroc device to know what is tromp's mind state now :-)
Tetriste [1d\]: or so someone said earlier
GralAnibal [6k\]: rank or private life doesnt matter now, is all about the moves on the board
gogonuts [5d\]: b2 seems needed
Uberdude [2d?\]: and then blak e15?
GriGriGo [2k\]: d3 d2 b2 ?
RayTomes [2d\]: yes b2 
caribbean [3k\]: w's only option is killing b
Riitoken [11k\]: I've got black by more than twenty here
]
;W[br]WL[1150.511]C[Imagingo [17k\]: Chop 'em up black
]
;B[hp]BL[3342.462]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: e15 f8 g8 
Uberdude [2d?\]: killerz
googolplex [5k\]: g5?
wdom [11k\]: chop chop
Tetriste [1d\]: k2%
GralAnibal [6k\]: maybe Tromp has a chance to win in yose
Ukasuhs [3d\]: g5 g4
BOThater36 [5d\]: k3 work?
Persians [2k\]: b2 donot help w b4 get more libs
RayTomes [2d\]: d3 kills
Tetriste [1d\]: or maybe k3
Tetriste [1d\]: :P
Ukasuhs [3d\]: just k3
MssrBlanc [2k\]: I think the bots do very well in yose. 
Uberdude [2d?\]: this is all just a leaning attack
Ukasuhs [3d\]: or j3 or j2 or k2
Ukasuhs [3d\]: anything
RayTomes [2d\]: k2 safest
cjr [-\]: b is dead, will have to kill center now
Tetriste [1d\]: gotta say, b isnt losing much there neither
Uberdude [2d?\]: b is preparing the kill of other gropu
GralAnibal [6k\]: k2 
RunningFox [2d\]: don't understand why w did not take the corner
RunningFox [2d\]: sorry, B
Ukasuhs [3d\]: i think k3 safest
GralAnibal [6k\]: because zen dont want corners
GralAnibal [6k\]: im sure Tromp studied the bot
]
;W[iq]WL[1055.97]C[Riitoken [11k\]: but given that E2 is dead then the game is even
Ukasuhs [3d\]: double hane
Tetriste [1d\]: yeah
hiss [-\]: hane!
Tetriste [1d\]: this seems risky
GriGriGo [2k\]: argh
caribbean [3k\]: g3 first
GralAnibal [6k\]: maybe against human you take the corner first
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w will have more liberties anyway
nopaci: is f10 alive for sure or still uncertain?
rs220675 [1k\]: but you make more or easier territory in the corner, so zen is ill-advised here :)
BOThater36 [5d\]: I will soon publish a book call....
]
;B[jq]BL[3304.299]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: f10 is not alive
RayTomes [2d\]: f10 alive IMO
GralAnibal [6k\]: but to beat the bot, you have to "follow' their habits
]
;W[jr]WL[1050.705]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: b will kill it soon
Viictorm [4k\]: l2
Persians [2k\]: w look like safe?
GralAnibal [6k\]: or take advantage of bot weakness
caribbean [3k\]: how'll the book called
armada [5d\]: j3? shoulda been k3
GriGriGo [2k\]: black need something around d14 to kill though
]
;B[kr]BL[3264.379]C[RayTomes [2d\]: yes, j3 not best\]
]
;W[kq]WL[1045.664]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: l2 nasty
gogonuts [5d\]: ???
Riitoken [11k\]: f10 is alive
Liisa [2d\]: J2 wins for w
rasa57 [?\]: Does zen dream of being pro?
RayTomes [2d\]: no
hummel [3d?\]: incridible bad atari
Tetriste [1d\]: I dont see w getting out of there
]
;B[jp]BL[3229.764]C[AutoAtari [1k\]: w didn't have much choice after j3
BOThater36 [5d\]: why atari is bad?
GralAnibal [6k\]: see?
]
;W[ir]WL[1039.124]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: w will just kill e3
hiss [-\]: Zen will go beyond
GralAnibal [6k\]: he studied bot habits
caribbean [3k\]: g3!
armada [5d\]: b dead
hummel [3d?\]: BOTHATER, white cant g5 anymore
]
;B[df]BL[3202.268]C[qQQp [-\]: at last
cjr [-\]: there we go :)
Uberdude [2d?\]: ok not e15
garlique [7k\]: tennuki like a boss
caribbean [3k\]: now w had forgotten all about that group
armada [5d\]: g14
Uberdude [2d?\]: but kill anyawy
neophyte [5k\]: what about j14 now?
GriGriGo [2k\]: I called it :)
qQQp [-\]: anything else is luxury
Uberdude [2d?\]: still, e15 seems nicer
RayTomes [2d\]: W Ok there
nopaci: ok attack east if you want to kill west
GralAnibal [6k\]: e14  ok for white?
Persians [2k\]: d14 donot work
Riitoken [11k\]: actually F10 could be dead
gubidik [1d\]: e14 and c13?
illluck [3d\]: @Uber: this is why I keep getting crushed by you
RunningFox [2d\]: hard to kill certer W grp
Ukasuhs [3d\]: just push at e14
Tetriste [1d\]: j14 h15 I think
gogonuts [5d\]: zen is great at multi-attacks
Persians [2k\]: d14 donot work
illluck [3d\]: I thought white was super-alive XD
]
;W[cj]WL[972.052]C[Liisa [2d\]: J8 aji has been reduced somewhat. 
Uberdude [2d?\]: illluck, the go gods appreciate leaning attacks
Uberdude [2d?\]: they magically work
caribbean [3k\]: why didnt zen e14? this doesnt cut
cjr [-\]: black feels too think
RunningFox [2d\]: good luch to B
cjr [-\]: thin
Liisa [2d\]: F8 aji*
RunningFox [2d\]: good luck to B
armada [5d\]: w lookinng good now
hugh2 [1d\]: SE right now: different bug from usual
BlackLodge [3k\]: is this computer literally THE strongest?
Uberdude [2d?\]: f8 may be answer at g8 
Ukasuhs [3d\]: lol zen isnt gunna b10
cjr [-\]: e14 makes ko?
]
;B[jk]BL[3155.866]
;W[gh]WL[965.334]C[RayTomes [2d\]: yes SE has the old "I haven't a clue" count
googolplex [5k\]: this group is alive?
]
;B[bj]BL[3129.31]C[caribbean [3k\]: no
GralAnibal [6k\]: e14 or c9
caribbean [3k\]: it's zombgie
nopaci: h11
Ukasuhs [3d\]: this group is most certainly alive
RayTomes [2d\]: W alive
googolplex [5k\]: yea e14
googolplex [5k\]: ???
katrinaK [-\]: more important? h11 
caribbean [3k\]: e14 ko
AutoAtari [1k\]: w about 55% alive :p
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: w still not settled there
Kotomi [-\]: g14
fluidistic [7k\]: what is win % of zen now Hideki?
BOThater36 [5d\]: B must get something or white will win
katrinaK [-\]: it loves alright
katrinaK [-\]: g14 
gghideki [3k?\]: 55%
uguryldz [-\]: f8
ram [1k\]: H11 first
Uberdude [2d?\]: i'm not yet clear why d14 is better than e15
fluidistic [7k\]: thank you!
nopaci: g14?
googolplex [5k\]: e14 , f11 and???
katrinaK [-\]: live*
SexyShape [2k\]: maybe it's time to R5 now ..
BOThater36 [5d\]: seems white  at least even on board
gogonuts [5d\]: the top looks like suffering
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: e14?
armada [5d\]: g14
Kotomi [-\]: g14 first i think
gogonuts [5d\]: if e14 b f15
Kotomi [-\]: yeah
czark [2k\]: first make most annoying threat to live - not h11
RayTomes [2d\]: h11 worth playing?
BOThater36 [5d\]: B needs to get 10+ poins profit in attacking
]
;W[bk]WL[859.888]C[katrinaK [-\]: yeah what kotomi says
Tetriste [1d\]: I call greed
gogonuts [5d\]: good idea to ask here first
BOThater36 [5d\]:  I am assuming LL b dead
katrinaK [-\]: being greedy will just cause it to lose
apetresc [1d?\]: Safe assumption, I think
Persians [2k\]: no eye
]
;B[bl]BL[3095.898]C[wangyou: g14
armada [5d\]: m3 big and reverse sente?
BOThater36 [5d\]: B gave up so much LL, must gain someting back
neoncamo [-\]: Wow, I expected more progress from when I left an hour ago
Tetriste [1d\]: I think b should finish up the shape down there though, like g5 and m3
RayTomes [2d\]: W can catch a few B in upper left?
Kotomi [-\]: wow i didnt think b would play b8
uurtamo [-\]: this looks rougj
Kotomi [-\]: XP
Tetriste [1d\]: b will kill upper right!
caribbean [3k\]: tromp is in us
BOThater36 [5d\]: hur, kill upper right?
gogonuts [5d\]: almost 4 am, but im getting my monies worth
BOThater36 [5d\]: u bet, gogo
RayTomes [2d\]: how much did you pay?
wdom [11k\]: 5am
wdom [11k\]: shieet
gogonuts [5d\]: 4 hours of sleep
BOThater36 [5d\]: Zen provide a very entertaining game, win or lose
AutoAtari [1k\]: 11 am
uurtamo [-\]: I bought the phone client just to watch. :)
RayTomes [2d\]: 4 pm
BOThater36 [5d\]: In vegas, no clock here
wdom [11k\]: well.. zens "weird" play makes this really intresting
Viictorm [4k\]: zen more smarth 
katrinaK [-\]: lol 
czark [2k\]: f8
armada [5d\]: great 1st game
mrgomez [14k?\]: what was B9 for? B8 captures it easily...
Viictorm [4k\]: good 
uurtamo [-\]: time.
ram [1k\]: first game of what???????????????????????????
katrinaK [-\]: i think b9 is a good move
BOThater36 [5d\]:  if I take white, would have lose long time ago
RayTomes [2d\]: B9 was for aji
gryn [1k\]: this is a jubango
speedchase [7k\]: no best of 5
katrinaK [-\]: b8 *
SexyShape [2k\]: I assume that tromp can't play these 5 games in a row :)
czark [2k\]: nanabango
Imagingo [17k\]: Tomorrow
ram [1k\]: sure jubango, comon term
speedchase [7k\]: one every evening for 5 days
RayTomes [2d\]: b9 makes a cut at c13 for W (e.g.)
hiss [-\]: w is not alive, right?
speedchase [7k\]: jubango is ten games
Shipper [2k\]: b9 is no loss
speedchase [7k\]: this is five
illluck [3d\]: Five is not ten
AutoAtari [1k\]: gobango?
Tetriste [1d\]: I think w b8 peep was better aji
uurtamo [-\]: j14?
BlackLodge [3k\]: lots of time thinking...did not have follow up play ready?
garlique [7k\]: it's best of five
mrgomez [14k?\]: oh thanks
RayTomes [2d\]: and c13 cut with another cut around g14 makes w very happy
SexyShape [2k\]: In a sense, it would be fair to play the games in a row so that beeing a machine would clearly be an advantage
nat1dpm [9k\]: Would you know who has beated Zen on a regular basis? Pros?
qQQp [-\]: is the time absolute?
Tetriste [1d\]: pros dont play zen that often I think
RayTomes [2d\]: BH beats Zen a decent amount
katrinaK [-\]: mp 
Persians [2k\]: look like w ok
katrinaK [-\]: no*
Shipper [2k\]: most high dans can beat it easily
BOThater36 [5d\]: narr, not me
gogonuts [5d\]: zen takes 5 stones from pros
aoeu: KGS 6d and above would beat Zen more or less every time, I guess
nat1dpm [9k\]: Thank you
Ukasuhs [3d\]: only pros the play zen on a somewhat constant basis are the ones that play on kgs
gogonuts [5d\]: might ber getting to 4 now
RayTomes [2d\]: it has trespectable record against high dans (>50%)
caribbean [3k\]: zen usually plays blitz
pilaf [4d\]: m10
RayTomes [2d\]: respectable*
]
;W[gf]WL[545.19]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: I volunteer gogo to play next jubango  hehe, let him tortured
hiss [-\]: smartrobot beat it twince giving it 4 handi stones
nopaci: ray but not in even games oc
]
;B[ob]BL[3082.446]C[gogonuts [5d\]: lol
fluidistic [7k\]: zen has positive score against even, higher and lower opponents
indyra [1d\]: heh, smartrobot beat him easily without using his byoyomi too.
Riitoken [11k\]: wow
garlique [7k\]: zen played that one fast
RayTomes [2d\]: not in even games, no. In correct handicap games
nat1dpm [9k\]: wow is right
garlique [7k\]: been thinking about it
hdomanic: good
gogonuts [5d\]: tromp hasnt lost yet
RayTomes [2d\]: who said B cannot p18?
]
;W[qb]WL[513.447]C[rs220675 [1k\]: can white tenuki now?
aoeu: tromp hasn't?
Shipper [2k\]: no
fluidistic [7k\]: zen has better pro 9p with 6 stones handicap about 40 days ago
caribbean [3k\]: can b tenuki now
gogonuts [5d\]: still staunchly defending human honor
Tetriste [1d\]: w still got ko at r5 no?
Tetriste [1d\]: b*
fluidistic [7k\]: beaten*
BOThater36 [5d\]: A bold prediction, zen lose in komi if play till end, of cause zen never does that
uguryldz [-\]: m3 too big
fluidistic [7k\]: Bothater... untrue
Persians [2k\]: p17 cut, canot tenuki
gogonuts [5d\]: g14 is best
fluidistic [7k\]: zen now reaches counting even when losing
RayTomes [2d\]: why doesn't B play S9?
]
;B[rk]BL[3035.923]C[Tetriste [1d\]: s9 r8 r5 
gogonuts [5d\]: it was important to find that move
RayTomes [2d\]: it does
garlique [7k\]: tromp will enter average time of 24 sec/move soon
Tetriste [1d\]: ^^
fluidistic [7k\]: you missed uesterday's game where zen lost by more than 60 points in counting
Drack [14k\]: finally s9
BOThater36 [5d\]: final struggle with R5?
rs220675 [1k\]: I think w will win now
Tetriste [1d\]: a quite big strugle
Tetriste [1d\]: b got a lot of ko threats
katrinaK [-\]: nhaa
BOThater36 [5d\]: B has liability to in this ko
garlique [7k\]: b has some trouble with kos
thanush [3d\]: but b has many threats
Persians [2k\]: w r5, then p17 cut
hiss [-\]: this was b's plan
katrinaK [-\]: i think black can win
SexyShape [2k\]: it'es only a dozen points
armada [5d\]: b has massive balls if he's gonna attempt that ko
katrinaK [-\]: either q9 or r6 and q9 
RayTomes [2d\]: B plan was to make a hash el;sewhere to make many ko threats for this?  Haha!
caribbean [3k\]: i think b losing now
harrimanez [1d\]: botballs
qQQp [-\]: is b g15 not worth trying?
Kotomi [-\]: lol agreed armada 6ut i dont think 6ots get those
nopaci: p17?
BOThater36 [5d\]: does bot has balls? please dont boot me out
Opheliac [6k\]: why does he think now?
Riitoken [11k\]: anybody have w winning here?
Uberdude [2d?\]: ball bearings
gogonuts [5d\]: if g15 w counter-ataris
uurtamo [-\]: lol
Phelan [6k\]: heh
caribbean [3k\]: g15 e14
RayTomes [2d\]: W can win if do not lose too much in this ko
rs220675 [1k\]: I think w wil get either the topf left corner big or make a lot of territory with m3
BOThater36 [5d\]: bot has bearing in his hard disk drive
gogonuts [5d\]: no
qQQp [-\]: but g15 is ko, or not?
SexyShape [2k\]: couldn't that be a big yose gote
gogonuts [5d\]: g15 f15
caribbean [3k\]: if w gets f14 stone makes eye real
]
;W[oc]WL[346.815]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: hmm
Opheliac [6k\]: what
RayTomes [2d\]: wow
Persians [2k\]: small r9, m3 bigger, 
nopaci: :)
BOThater36 [5d\]: very good tenuki in my opinion
Persians [2k\]: s9 misread
armada [5d\]: if botom left is dead then i think w is ahead, unless he lost those 5 stones..
gogonuts [5d\]: not a misread
aoeu: Misread?
skoj [-\]: I like it :) Don't let our robot overlords get away with everything
BOThater36 [5d\]: now if b starts ko, will be very light 4 w and heavy for b
gogonuts [5d\]: zen is good at endgame trading
fluidistic [7k\]: u underestimate zen persians
]
;B[od]BL[2989.842]C[hiss [-\]: I think it's close
]
;W[nc]WL[338.204]C[caribbean [3k\]: where is ko?
Tetriste [1d\]: o18?
aoeu: R5
BOThater36 [5d\]: r5 ko
aoeu: is the ko
hiss [-\]: r8 r5 s5 s4 r4 
gogonuts [5d\]: r5 is possble ko, but dangerous to start
Persians [2k\]: o17 sente
RayTomes [2d\]: ko is W r8 r5 s5 s4 r4 
]
;B[nd]BL[2958.742]C[GralAnibal [6k\]: go Tromp go !!
Kotomi [-\]: whites winnig 6y a good amount 
GralAnibal [6k\]: r8 
Tetriste [1d\]: nvm, o18 terribad
Kotomi [-\]: r8 is too small
blacklabel [1d\]: to achieve light w ko heavy b ko, r8 is bad
]
;W[nb]WL[308.202]C[GralAnibal [6k\]: dont tell the bot is too small
aoeu: R8 is large enough now
Uberdude [2d?\]: m3 could be bigger
googolplex [5k\]: woow tromp have onli five minutes
Uberdude [2d?\]: p2 next
gogonuts [5d\]: i may be getting paranoid, but to me it smells like a small margin bot win
Kotomi [-\]: i dont think the 6ot can read our chat
fluidistic [7k\]: zen will win this game
caribbean [3k\]: r5
Kotomi [-\]: i think white wins : S
BOThater36 [5d\]: Koto, believe me, it can
Kotomi [-\]: 6y a6out 10 or so
Kotomi [-\]: : D
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w can still n16
panchaohao [3d\]: there are more than one move bigger than R8
armada [5d\]: is n16 - p14 a threat
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp did a greast job no matter the result
indyra [1d\]: time shortage is serious issue for human
panchaohao [3d\]: moves*
]
;B[pq]BL[2913.927]C[aoeu: gogonuts, at least B let W get off easy on the left side
]
;W[pr]WL[303.421]C[garlique [7k\]: If it can read our thoughts, it can read the chat
wdom [11k\]: kotomi: is your B broken? :D
fluidistic [7k\]: lol
Kotomi [-\]: actually it is wdom...
wdom [11k\]: :D
gogonuts [5d\]: the whole left side was pretty dubious by zen
Tetriste [1d\]: isnt m3 sente?
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo, i think i win the bet against u in this game
aoeu: So I guess B is playing pretty safe because of having a lead strong enough that you can just smoothly sail to victory
Persians [2k\]: n16 still serious
Tetriste [1d\]: for black
Kotomi [-\]: so is my letter .... after u in the alpha6et
armada [5d\]: i think so
fluidistic [7k\]: what was your bet bothater?
RayTomes [2d\]: is B M3 senet on corner?
]
;B[hi]BL[2869.079]C[gogonuts [5d\]: what bet?
Kotomi [-\]: 6oth ar 6roken : (
Uberdude [2d?\]: small?
SexyShape [2k\]: small
blacklabel [1d\]: m2 
Tetriste [1d\]: hum...
caribbean [3k\]: wth
indyra [1d\]: hmm, he used his ko threat
skoj [-\]: Time tesuji? :)
zebra131 [6k\]: you could use \\/ for v
caribbean [3k\]: i think zen is broken
nopaci: m3
Persians [2k\]: h11 sucide
armada [5d\]: m2 is huge
GralAnibal [6k\]: i guess we can censor kotomi now
gogonuts [5d\]: i dont
Tetriste [1d\]: misclick?
fluidistic [7k\]: sigh!
garlique [7k\]: broken or very sure of victory
gogonuts [5d\]: zen only looks broken
Kotomi [-\]: where is that key at ze6ra?
Kotomi [-\]: i cant copy and paste haha so XD
zebra131 [6k\]: \\ /
Persians [2k\]: g15 safe
RayTomes [2d\]: b11 a9 c13 ?!
GralAnibal [6k\]: focus on the game and dont feed the troll , please
Kotomi [-\]: OH
BOThater36 [5d\]: Im weak, but I am good to read zen's mind,
gogonuts [5d\]: then you count in the end, and you say "what the ..."
hiss [-\]: n16 and b can't even n15 
Kotomi [-\]: i ne\\/er thought of that
Kotomi [-\]: hehe 
rs220675 [1k\]: h11 is zen's way of saying: "I lost it"
NexusOne [4d\]: q15
Uberdude [2d?\]: m3 even sente for b
gogonuts [5d\]: no h11 is quite valuable
]
;W[cg]WL[219.503]C[fluidistic [7k\]: only way to know what zen thinks is asking gghideki about win %
RayTomes [2d\]: yes
wdom [11k\]: h11 is going for the kill
BOThater36 [5d\]: white crusing
armada [5d\]: ooh thats good
caribbean [3k\]: w going for b14
Tetriste [1d\]: this works?
Tabemasu [6d\]: n16 is really big
Kotomi [-\]: yep 6lack is 6eing crushed
hummel [3d?\]: why white doesnt ask at n16?
Tetriste [1d\]: d13 d12 b12 
gogonuts [5d\]: we will see
Liisa [2d\]: h11 was desperate, means zen is losing
Ukasuhs [3d\]: if b cuts at d13 he is crazy
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo still believe in his loveable bot
]
;B[dg]BL[2825.995]C[gogonuts [5d\]: if you say its w, then i will have to stay up
BOThater36 [5d\]: lol
RayTomes [2d\]: b11
Tetriste [1d\]: is my sequence wrong?
mate105 [2d\]: is this the betting game?
armada [5d\]: w has a lotta places he's just ITCHING to play:  m3, n16, g5. . 
Persians [2k\]: b  misread
Riitoken [11k\]: zen has 2 groups of 5 stones in atari
Kotomi [-\]: 6lack is dead
blacklabel [1d\]: b11 
Kotomi [-\]: no he didnt misread
Ukasuhs [3d\]: atari atari atari
armada [5d\]: b11
Tetriste [1d\]: oh
Tetriste [1d\]: b11
Kotomi [-\]: hes 6ehind so life is his only choice
RayTomes [2d\]: wasn't b11 better before c13?
]
;W[bi]WL[178.624]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: B11?
Shipper [2k\]: since C13, H11 will be worth 
Persians [2k\]: b misread here
fluidistic [7k\]: position too complex for me
Shipper [2k\]: 10 points in gote at some time?
BOThater36 [5d\]: gogo , game soon be over
Persians [2k\]: human win the race
]
;B[ak]BL[2790.834]C[rs220675 [1k\]: game over, zen, you are not a dan playing programm, Sir! :P
fluidistic [7k\]: wait it's only 1 game out of 5
]
;W[bh]WL[173.752]C[RayTomes [2d\]: huge!!
armada [5d\]: boom.  w win
speedchase [7k\]: arej11 and q8 miai? or something more complicated
garlique [7k\]: maximum of 5 games, first to 3
Rochedale [7k\]: Tromp is my hero.
fluidistic [7k\]: ok
BOThater36 [5d\]: it is gogo's sleep time
RayTomes [2d\]: I told you about this 50 moves back
googolplex [5k\]: only two minutes for tromp
indyra [1d\]: sooo big
Liisa [2d\]: world strongest 2dan!
GriGriGo [2k\]: gotta be 25 pts
]
;B[rp]BL[2748.587]C[qQQp [-\]: tromp's pic is smiling again
caribbean [3k\]: come back in 50 years bots
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp is around 4dan
rs220675 [1k\]: I'd think even a KGS 1d could be zen with a time setting like this, don't u think?
garlique [7k\]: lol
armada [5d\]: ooh here comes the ko!!
AutoAtari [1k\]: it's not SD
Kotomi [-\]: wow 6ot is giong for ko
blacklabel [1d\]: here comes
Kotomi [-\]: gutsy
Riitoken [11k\]: WOW
rs220675 [1k\]: beat
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w can just n16 and win
]
;W[qp]WL[156.687]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: a pro way to start the ko
googolplex [5k\]: sistem of byoyomi?
RayTomes [2d\]: its ko time, its show time!
gogonuts [5d\]: no rs, winning on even is hard
panchaohao [3d\]: B12 worths 25pts while Q8/J10 worths 10pts
Tetriste [1d\]: h11 is a let down seriously, the game was cool but now its just bad
armada [5d\]: b has many ko threats in the bottom left
RunningFox [2d\]: B's final try
Ootakamoku [3d\]: this ko is actually very good for b
]
;B[dh]BL[2707.06]C[caribbean [3k\]: b does have lots of threats
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b has alot more threats than w
Kotomi [-\]: not really running fox whtie will hae enough een if he just did m2
fluidistic [7k\]: WHAT
Kotomi [-\]: and dint og with ko
cyryts [2k\]: huh?
caribbean [3k\]: one less now
fluidistic [7k\]: lol
BOThater36 [5d\]: usall bot mis sequence
fluidistic [7k\]: ko threat before ko
aoeu: Why does B play ko threat before starting the ko?
BOThater36 [5d\]: B14
Liisa [2d\]: zen is preparing for kou!
fluidistic [7k\]: because it's a bot
speedchase [7k\]: it messed up
rs220675 [1k\]: and white has still n16
speedchase [7k\]: nice
fluidistic [7k\]: lol
AutoAtari [1k\]: because it's showing off
fluidistic [7k\]: hilarious
armada [5d\]: does incerase size of threat. . .
garlique [7k\]: it got too excited about the threat and played it first
Ootakamoku [3d\]: zen always announces he is going to ko by playing a threat or two before starting the actual ko
Shipper [2k\]: who spilled coffee on zen?
]
;W[cf]WL[113.95]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: MC's weak points
RayTomes [2d\]: bots and hiigh dans seem to often play ko threats before ko 
speedchase [7k\]: but it looses the first one
flakeman2 [9k\]: nice
BOThater36 [5d\]: better, reduce b liberty
]
;B[qo]BL[2684.062]
;W[ro]WL[110.642]C[garlique [7k\]: away we go
BOThater36 [5d\]: even white give up R6, not a big dead
fluidistic [7k\]: truth time
blueshell [13k?\]: this is not the best move... zen19n is testing tromp from a place far from far above
rs220675 [1k\]: @gogonuts: Do you think KGS 1d is about 1d in real life?
gogonuts [5d\]: s3
]
;B[ai]BL[2661.355]C[cyryts [2k\]: waste one more threat now
RayTomes [2d\]: what is real life?
armada [5d\]: ko's not as big though cause w didnt play r8
GralAnibal [6k\]: blueshell, please
gogonuts [5d\]: wut?
Kotomi [-\]: lol
Tetriste [1d\]: wtf
fluidistic [7k\]: err
BOThater36 [5d\]: another mis sequence
aoeu: Wait, why is B still wasting threats?
Kotomi [-\]: its just desperate now XD
tromp [-\]: sign of the times
gghideki [3k?\]: C13 was very good
fluidistic [7k\]: b too many threats, has to waste somes
]
;W[bg]WL[85.118]C[Kotomi [-\]: lol : D
BOThater36 [5d\]: is not wasting thread, is isse on MC
armada [5d\]: yeah that's dumb
RayTomes [2d\]: another ko threat before ko!
Avalon0487 [5k\]: the tromp spoke
Ootakamoku [3d\]: I think EGF ratings are maybe 2 stone sstronger than KGS ratings, so tromp would be like 4 or 5dan on KGS?
GralAnibal [6k\]: yes
speedchase [7k\]: that sounds about right
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp 4dan
]
;B[rn]BL[2639.083]C[Kotomi [-\]: c13 was common sense XD
blueshell [13k?\]: tromp: stop messing around *shakes fist in anger*
afar [3d\]: That means I am 4 or 5 dan
]
;W[po]WL[81.285]C[gghideki [3k?\]: Zen seems loosing
gogonuts [5d\]: a lot of players are also lower on kgs
GralAnibal [6k\]: not you afar
BOThater36 [5d\]: tromp read very deep, he is very strong
RayTomes [2d\]: big ko!
fluidistic [7k\]: win % Hideki is?
gogonuts [5d\]: its about correct
Ukasuhs [3d\]: this ko is so absurdly heavy for black
caribbean [3k\]: c15
rs220675 [1k\]: so you think a KGS 1d is about 2k EGF?
garlique [7k\]: curse this game and it's ability to keep me from school
caribbean [3k\]: or g3
gghideki [3k?\]: 37%
fluidistic [7k\]: oh
Ootakamoku [3d\]: rs yes
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp is stronger and more experienced than normal kgs 4d
RayTomes [2d\]: because p6 for W saves q8 stones
fluidistic [7k\]: not optimistic bot
cyryts [2k\]: that was a good game
indyra [1d\]: yay for Tromp!
Tetriste [1d\]: g15
]
;B[cr]BL[2602.104]C[fluidistic [7k\]: 37 very low
Rochedale [7k\]: I think Tromp really knows how to take down bots.
BOThater36 [5d\]: this ko let S9 silly
chf75: Tromp also knows bots well.
GralAnibal [6k\]: now comes the hard part to play good tose with little time
garlique [7k\]: he is an AI specialist
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp is software engineer
xgw09 [1d\]: s9 wasted move
BOThater36 [5d\]: can white just play M3 and end the ko?
shyin [11k\]: plenty of time
Tetriste [1d\]: I think b m3 is sente
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w going to do something crazy here or what?
armada [5d\]: tromp was sort of getting his ass kicked for a while. . .  i wouldn't give him too much credit for anti-bot strategy, unless that strategy is just wait and hope zen messes up
Ootakamoku [3d\]: thinking this long
RayTomes [2d\]: m3 loses a lot on right
]
;W[lq]WL[8.352]C[garlique [7k\]: average 24 sec/move, but some longer, some shorter
GralAnibal [6k\]: shyin can you count the value of this move in 30 seconds?
GralAnibal [6k\]: i dont
gghideki [3k?\]: Perhaps, Zen didn't realize C13
Ootakamoku [3d\]: whaat?!?
billywoods [8k\]: ...
Ootakamoku [3d\]: m3 wut...
nucklehead [6k\]: Do you think that in some 4 dimentional universe...there are people programming computers to play 3 dimentional go? ;)
flakeman2 [9k\]: is this absolute time or is there byo-yomi?
]
;B[ql]BL[2575.741]C[caribbean [3k\]: bh called it
goren2 [3k\]: m3 good
speedchase [7k\]: err what?
xgw09 [1d\]: ???
Ukasuhs [3d\]: n16
Tetriste [1d\]: lolll
speedchase [7k\]: shouldn't w take ko?
BOThater36 [5d\]: over, over, over, in crazy mode
armada [5d\]: ok both players are high
hdomanicc: resign requence
shyin [11k\]: theres 25/10:00 byo yomi
Kotomi [-\]: lolol
indyra [1d\]: zen become dumb?
neophyte [5k\]: this bot is so bad
ricedragon [2k\]: neophyte, stfu
Tabemasu [6d\]: n16 bigger than ko
Ootakamoku [3d\]: neophyte, this bot will win against easily with 5 stones
Ukasuhs [3d\]: conclusion: bots get worse when they have more time?
GralAnibal [6k\]: bot just showed the programming defects
]
;W[bq]WL[564.494]OW[24]C[Kotomi [-\]: hi ta6emasu : D
hdomanicc: i said resign sequence
aoeu: I think Zen was doing really well before making E3 group and dying with it
Tabemasu [6d\]: hi
aoeu: After that, its been a steady downhill
fluidistic [7k\]: zen has chance to win tomorrow at least
Tetriste [1d\]: I think zen still had a small chance before h11
BOThater36 [5d\]: Zen play awsom this game in my opinion
Ootakamoku [3d\]: does w n16 work?
uguryldz [-\]: n17
]
;B[bs]BL[2536.704]C[aoeu: H11 was just depressing
uguryldz [-\]: n16 work
GralAnibal [6k\]: most programmers are weak go players they only use algorithms and not common sense or reasonable strategy
]
;W[en]WL[547.038]OW[23]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: w e6?
GralAnibal [6k\]: thats why humans stuill reign on this planet
caribbean [3k\]: what about chess programmers
armada [5d\]: "common sense" is very difficult to program
RayTomes [2d\]: g5
okilol [2k\]: that's a very nice generalisation, and it's completely wrong
Nodos [2k\]: no such thing as common sense in go
blueshell [13k?\]: chess is orders of magnitudes simpler than go and can be brute forced
Ootakamoku [3d\]: I guess go strength reversely correlates go bot strength, my go bot is like 20kyu XD
NoC: chess programmers just brute force possible moves and analyze them.
Kotomi [-\]: i hae to agree with that common sense seems like it would 6e a pain in the .... to program
GralAnibal [6k\]: yeah, is hard to teach a machine to reason
Phelan [6k\]: what okilol said
indyra [1d\]: tromp and zen about the same strength, so this 5 games match are really good
wdom [11k\]: gral: monte carlo and commond sence are soooo far away.. 
peteg [?\]: most <anything> are weak go players.
]
;B[em]BL[2497.291]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: First Q6, then F5 zen overplay
Shipper [2k\]: go just isn't a game where you can assign a mathematical value to every single move
Drack [14k\]: SE is back unbugged
Tetriste [1d\]: incoming resign
gogonuts [5d\]: this was a pretty weird game
]
;W[bn]WL[540.949]OW[22]C[BOThater36 [5d\]: zen misread, try to kill all
RayTomes [2d\]: common sense is ofetn not coomn and often notb sense
gogonuts [5d\]: zen went ahead, but couldnt make use of the position
GralAnibal [6k\]: Monte carlo is good place for roulette, but I never been there
]
;B[go]BL[2474.227]C[Phelan [6k\]: gral anibal is troll
]
;W[gq]WL[536.662]OW[21]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: if h11 is at m3 sente
fluidistic [7k\]: chess programs don't use pure brute force, that was the job of Deep Blue back in 97.  nowadays programs use algorithm
BOThater36 [5d\]: after e3, zen was ahead i think
Uberdude [2d?\]: then start ko
wdom [11k\]: shipper: yes, but monte carlo is still the best way to go..
megabeest [2k\]: shipper: you can assign a value, just very hard to compute
Opheliac [6k\]: is zen able to play good endgame?
Kotomi [-\]: i think the limit of a 6ot will 6e 6dan since after that go requires a \\/ery good amount of 6alance which takes reasoning 
Uberdude [2d?\]: b win ko kil entire lower tight corner
Tetriste [1d\]: well, if b kills this by some weird chance, and also gets m10, it might not be that bad
indyra [1d\]: hehe, gogo's favourite bot lose^^
blueshell [13k?\]: makemashita
]
;B[am]BL[2453.308]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: zen plays good endgame if hes ahead
Ukasuhs [3d\]: otherwise he will die everywhere
afar [3d\]: kotomi: They said similar things about chess. Decades ago.
Kotomi [-\]: thats the pro6lem with your statement though
Kotomi [-\]: "chess"
blueshell [13k?\]: well, endgame has been solved 
Ootakamoku [3d\]: whee! my bot just won its first game on cgos :)
caribbean [3k\]: it's a semiai
afar [3d\]: No, it's not a problem
]
;W[an]WL[508.29]OW[20]C[gogonuts [5d\]: d15 and c12 just totally messed up the left side
fluidistic [7k\]: congrats ootakamoku
Kotomi [-\]: go and chess are different the way of go has changed o\\/er years
BOThater36 [5d\]: flu, me too
Kotomi [-\]: new things are put into the system did you knwo the 6oard size use to 6e 17x17
GralAnibal [6k\]: Kotomi is the same guy who used Jessica before, pretendint to be a girl and flooding with nonsense - ignore or censor - hes going to argue whatever you say just to get attention
fluidistic [7k\]: what do you mean bothater?
gogonuts [5d\]: after w found d11, b was in trouble
okilol [2k\]: it's typical human to not notice historical patterns, even though obvious
GralAnibal [6k\]: just a warning
armada [5d\]: could this be ko or seki?
]
;B[bm]BL[2421.946]C[afar [3d\]: One is harder than the other, but you're deluding yourself if you think there's something super-magic about go that makes it ultimately less soluble
Kotomi [-\]: what if it is changed?
aoeu: Kotomi, your theories are from out there
]
;W[dq]WL[497.621]OW[19]C[okilol [2k\]: we only notice pattern in our lives, not ones created on papers
RayTomes [2d\]: what is your bot Ootakamoku?
Kotomi [-\]: gral i am jessica - . - and your the one who spammed 6efore not me
BOThater36 [5d\]: eye kill no eye
armada [5d\]: nvm w kills
Kotomi [-\]: gral may6e you shouldnt talk since your more of a troll than i am
Ukasuhs [3d\]: w can probably tenuki and get n16
]
;B[dr]BL[2389.812]
;W[fn]WL[495.415]OW[18]C[hiss [-\]: if b b3 after m3, doesn't he win semai?
okilol [2k\]: it's obvious from looking at chess bots and the history of go bots development that go bots will beat human professionals within our lifetime
skoj [-\]: nom nom nom
wdom [11k\]: how about two trolls fighting which one is more troll in some other place?
]
;B[fm]BL[2363.693]C[fluidistic [7k\]: I'm 93 years old okilol
Liisa [2d\]: s7 is also valid for w
xgw09 [1d\]: if B took b3 instead of take at r8, B will kill the corner?
afar [3d\]: I look forward to it bringing down the cost of professional level tuition ;)
BOThater36 [5d\]: is tromp really that handsom like in the photo?
Kotomi [-\]: lolol fluid
]
;W[cs]WL[482.088]OW[17]C[rs220675 [1k\]: now it's zen that has to hope for a blunder move :)
RayTomes [2d\]: b no eyes d'oh
fluidistic [7k\]: so speak for yourself, thanks
ricedragon [2k\]: isn
SexyShape [2k\]: deceiving game
aoeu: okilol, its more or less obvious that go bots beat human professionals within 20 years, assuming theres no nuclear war or anything like that
Ootakamoku [3d\]: c1 looks lol
ricedragon [2k\]: t g6 better?
GralAnibal [6k\]: we need BIgDoug to make people focus on the game? please everyone act a bit more mature
]
;B[bo]BL[2343.82]C[gryn [1k\]: is c1 a good move??
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w should play g6 instead
]
;W[ao]WL[477.171]OW[16]C[Imagingo [17k\]: what
Kotomi [-\]: gral speak for yourself
okilol [2k\]: i doubt it's an asian photo model, BOThater
speedchase [7k\]: aoeu that isn't clear
Tetriste [1d\]: its ko
fluidistic [7k\]: heather says w+20 or so
]
;B[cp]BL[2318.756]C[Kotomi [-\]: 6lack is dead
gogonuts [5d\]: yes 15 at the very least
Kotomi [-\]: f1
Ukasuhs [3d\]: no ko
GralAnibal [6k\]: White seems ahead now
RayTomes [2d\]: a1
GriGriGo [2k\]: d1
symplicity [2d\]: black is very dead
Ukasuhs [3d\]: a2
BOThater36 [5d\]: a2
Ootakamoku [3d\]: g6, forcing before
fluidistic [7k\]: in a few moves zen will resign
garlique [7k\]: w doing well with his time
Shimada [2d\]: poor tromp
Tetriste [1d\]: its ko I said
speedchase [7k\]: why is zen still trying to live
okilol [2k\]: i think so too, aoeu, but i wanted to make a little bit less of a statement
speedchase [7k\]: timesuji?
Ukasuhs [3d\]: its not ko
Kotomi [-\]: 6lack is just dead
Nodos [2k\]: g6 maybe
]
;W[as]WL[439.483]OW[15]C[TomoyaKun [3d\]: f1
okilol [2k\]: to be absolutely sure :)
yoga [1k\]: alt+f4
garlique [7k\]: insurance
armada [5d\]: game 1: HUMAN
gghideki [3k?\]: I'm going lunch, see you
]
;B[ah]BL[2299.144]C[RayTomes [2d\]: it is called desperate mode
Ukasuhs [3d\]: n16
WhatsAGo [12k\]: Would A3 kill that group?
fluidistic [7k\]: bye Hideki
BOThater36 [5d\]: gg gaves up
gogonuts [5d\]: congrats to john tromp for keeping his cool
symplicity [2d\]: n16 now
Uberdude [2d?\]: ok yeah bot gone into nonsense mode
]
;W[md]WL[412.542]OW[14]C[uguryldz [-\]: n17
BOThater36 [5d\]: human 1, machine 0
billywoods [8k\]: d2 is dead, whatsa
aoeu: Bwah, the bot played just plain awful moves towards the end
Kotomi [-\]: yeah must 6e hard with all that pressure 
gogonuts [5d\]: maybe he can win the series after all
armada [5d\]: a12??!?!?
gghideki [3k?\]: now 21%, will resign soon
czark [2k\]: a3 f1
indyra [1d\]: yup, tromp is patient the whole game
SexyShape [2k\]: I don't understand how Zen can beat me…
Uberdude [2d?\]: you suck
Persians [2k\]: r5 good
uguryldz [-\]: w+res
gogonuts [5d\]: im going to bed
okilol [2k\]: that's why he beats you! :)
gogonuts [5d\]: good nite
fluidistic [7k\]: good night
hummel [3d?\]: n8
GralAnibal [6k\]: I said it from the start, Tromp has cool mind, not desperate
BOThater36 [5d\]: gd nite
garlique [7k\]:  boom
afar [3d\]: Hurray
fluidistic [7k\]: wow
speedchase [7k\]: YAY
skoj [-\]: Niiice
blubb [1d\]: yay
gogonuts [5d\]: congrats
GralAnibal [6k\]: Great !!!
caribbean [3k\]: woo
Rochedale [7k\]: Great game.
Ukasuhs [3d\]: good job tromp!
afar [3d\]: Congratulations tromp :)
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: 1-0
RayTomes [2d\]: well done that man!
fluidistic [7k\]: gg
googolplex [5k\]: good
Drack [14k\]: Congratulations
Riitoken [11k\]: ah dang
BOThater36 [5d\]: woo, nice game
indyra [1d\]: *clap clap*
tromp [-\]: phew!
Phelan [6k\]: Go Tromp!
neophyte [5k\]: well done trump
Persians [2k\]: :)
Liisa [2d\]: nice!
LustaDog [?\]: Woah!
speedchase [7k\]: a huge victory for humans!
armada [5d\]: great game
JamezQ [14k?\]: WOOOO
Makeshift [1d\]: grats!
GralAnibal [6k\]: Tromp HERO!
GoRoGoRo [7k?\]: Bravo!
LustaDog [?\]: Nice
spacetree [26k?\]: gg
wdom [11k\]: gz
fluidistic [7k\]: time to have some reward...
Phelan [6k\]: *claps*
gryn [1k\]: NOOO MY ROBOT BROTHER!
LustaDog [?\]: Grats!
qQQp [-\]: well done !!
heather [1d\]: congrats
googolplex [5k\]: excelente
billywoods [8k\]: yay!
mrgomez [14k?\]: congrats!
skoj [-\]: We get another year or two of supremacy. :)
apetresc [1d?\]: Congrats tromp!
caribbean [3k\]: chump chump
cdocdo [2k\]: grats!!
RickSako [8k?\]: huuuuuuuumannnns
blueshell [13k?\]: bot even knows when to resign... 
zebra131 [6k\]: Humanity!
caribbean [3k\]: yaya
caribbean [3k\]: woo
googolplex [5k\]: felicitaciones
genotech [13k?\]: Sweet :D
mrgomez [14k?\]: felicidades!
bang [6k\]: odio el Go
shyin [11k\]: congartulations!
caribbean [3k\]: llalalalaala
mchoi555 [1k\]: it is strange finish.
gryn [1k\]: uh i mean, HORRAY FOR THE HUMAN!
Wobble [3k\]: Well done :)
googolplex [5k\]: bienpor la humanidad
Persians [2k\]: w :)
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: humanity rules
speedchase [7k\]: smash the computer into the mud of the earth
flakeman2 [9k\]: well done
caribbean [3k\]: tromp for admin
GralAnibal [6k\]: teach them machines respect, well done
gogonuts [5d\]: looked tough for a while, but w refuted all funny stuff
tromp [-\]: feel i got very lucky indeed
Stones123 [2k\]: great game!
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: Zen19N is not enough
peteg [?\]: Congrats to wetware.
heather [1d\]: 4 more to go? :)
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: yah
GralAnibal [6k\]: no Lucky, jusr Human Power
pilaf [4d\]: well bot is mary to resign
Ootakamoku [3d\]: can it be possible to see zen move by move odds of winning from zens perspective?
BOThater36 [5d\]: trop, do you feel u were ahead all the time or some moment u were trailing?
speedchase [7k\]: psh at this rate there will only be 2 more games
Tetriste [1d\]: what if b just d1 instead of b5
Uberdude [2d?\]: if b got m3 sente and then start ko at s3
peteg [?\]: two more to go :)
JamezQ [14k?\]: humans survive another time :)
caribbean [3k\]: tromp review
Liisa [2d\]: i did bet €10 for Tromp after all.
Uberdude [2d?\]: i think b can still be ok
tromp [-\]: i felt game was close for a long time
Yuniba [4k\]: gg
Uberdude [2d?\]: that ko killed w2 next
uguryldz [-\]: That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind
googolplex [5k\]: how moves?
gogonuts [5d\]: d15 really counted backwards
GriGriGo [2k\]: we fell white was behind for a long time :-)
BOThater36 [5d\]: since when uthink u have game in hand? tromp
googolplex [5k\]: cuantos movimientos fueron?
tromp [-\]: i never realized my center group had only 1 eye:)
hdomanicc: :D
rs220675 [1k\]: why couldn't tromp watch the comments section if it was a free game on KGS?
Avalon0487 [5k\]: xD
GralAnibal [6k\]: show this game to the children, teach them humans have soul that makes us invincible
MrEmDash [2k\]: oh god
Liisa [2d\]: it was nice and calm game. And you punish well from Zen's overplays
MrEmDash [2k\]: still going?
tromp [-\]: until late
iju [2d\]: yey humans
MrEmDash [2k\]: oh, nevermind
gogonuts [5d\]: b9 and g14 were both nice
caribbean [3k\]: you cant read free game neither
BOThater36 [5d\]: should we let tromp to have his own game analysis?
nat1dpm [9k\]: Pleasure watching Tromp.  Excellent win'
BOThater36 [5d\]: post game analysis
Tetriste [1d\]: d1 instead of b5 looked like ko to me
indyra [1d\]: please review, Tromp
rs220675 [1k\]: ah ok, thx@carribbean
tromp [-\]: can i give control to a strong player?
Uberdude [2d?\]: d14 at e15
gogonuts [5d\]: i thought zen might try to kill r17
GralAnibal [6k\]: you are the strong now
BOThater36 [5d\]: u r the strongest one, tromp
rs220675 [1k\]: do it gogonuts!!!!
cyryts [2k\]: let zen review
nopaci: nice win
BOThater36 [5d\]: or yes, let Zen review
GralAnibal [6k\]: zen review , haha
])
