(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[25/600 Canadian]
PW[Zen19N]PB[tromp]DT[2012-01-15]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Zen19N [-\]: GTP Engine for Zen19N (white): Zen version 8.7
]RE[W+18.50]
;B[pd]BL[5396.312]C[goIngo [-\]: hello everybody
]
;W[dp]WL[5357.887]
;B[pp]BL[5389.638]C[gghideki [3k?\]: gg
]
;W[dd]WL[5327.353]C[ocharles [22k?\]: ooo, here we go :D
oonicks [?\]: hi
]
;B[pj]BL[5362.776]C[Slogger [1k\]: who won yesterday ?
elephant [2d?\]: tromp
Drack [14k\]: tromp won
fluidistic [7k\]: human
goIngo [-\]: tromp
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: what is tromp's regular account?
ChaosArt [1d\]: tromp obv.
ChaosArt [1d\]: he never loses!
Drack [14k\]: tromp does not play on kgs
Uberdude [2d?\]: zen got silly at the end
ChaosArt [1d\]: he always gets silly at the end
nyquist [1d\]: Is the 8 core Xeon thing 'normal h/w
]
;W[jp]WL[5294.231]C[ocharles [22k?\]: how strong is tromp?
ChaosArt [1d\]: according to the webpage about the games
goIngo [-\]: almost 3-dan
ocharles [22k?\]: cool
ChaosArt [1d\]: i think tromp is like 1d he stated
Hikky [2k\]: is this tromp as in, tromp-taylor rules?
ChaosArt [1d\]: in euro 1d is that d here?
Uberdude [2d?\]: tromp is probably a strong european 2 dan
goIngo [-\]: right
]
;B[jd]BL[5339.557]C[ChaosArt [1d\]: yea 2d
elephant [2d?\]: tromp is probably about 3d-4d KGS
polonius [2d?\]: yes, hikky
elephant [2d?\]: 2d EGF
oonicks [?\]: do ppl mind when i ask why tromp is playing zen, who else contest?
shyin [11k\]: 2 dan EGF
RickSako [8k?\]: tromp 2d egf
Hikky [2k\]: awesome
ChaosArt [1d\]: tromp cant lose~!
ChaosArt [1d\]: sigh
Drack [14k\]: 2d european I think, which should be about 4d kgs
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: tromp looking for moyo?
youdontsay [15k\]: tromp is the real trollface
]
;W[np]WL[5257.267]C[ChaosArt [1d\]: bots will never become better than the best go player!
ocharles [22k?\]: never say never...
nyquist [1d\]: don't feel threatened, chaosart
RickSako [8k?\]: almost 3d egf if im not mistaken 
ChaosArt [1d\]: otherwise, they will create they own joseki
elephant [2d?\]: Saying things like that is probably bad for your long term credibility
vegmandu [3d\]: of course they will chaos.
ChaosArt [1d\]: their *
gogonuts [5d\]: they never can - even when they are the best they can be bettter then themselves
polonius [2d?\]: 10 years max
gogonuts [5d\]: cant be
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: I voted in less than 15 years bots will beat the best human players
gogonuts [5d\]: 10 years min
ChaosArt [1d\]: does someone input intelligencei nto the bots?
ChaosArt [1d\]: i voted never
stormy [1k\]: about what is this bet?
fotland [?\]: yes, the programmers :)  but not inteligence, just knowledge
ocharles [22k?\]: you're going to be sorely disappointed, chaosart
ChaosArt [1d\]: stormy- tromp was bet  by some other guy 1000 dollars he wouldnt lose to zen in 5 gamews
]
;B[qn]BL[5227.828]C[Spartaaaaa [2k\]: unless he dies soon
ChaosArt [1d\]: before 2011
ChaosArt [1d\]: so they bet on the progress of the bot by 2011
Uberdude [2d?\]: ewwww
ChaosArt [1d\]: and tromp won :)
gogonuts [5d\]: real world intelligence isnt needed, only good go moves :-)
Uberdude [2d?\]: me no like r6
nyquist [1d\]: r6 is strange
Drack [14k\]: that was a different bet, though.  I don't think money's riding on this series of games
ChaosArt [1d\]: now they are betting without money
Uberdude [2d?\]: q6 a must imo
ChaosArt [1d\]: yes, drack
stormy [1k\]: hehe bad timing :)
Shipper [2k\]: If perfect Go can be put into algorithms, I don't want to live on this planet anymore
ChaosArt [1d\]: dude
polonius [2d?\]: okay
gogonuts [5d\]: uh oh, q6 is too dodgy
polonius [2d?\]: try Mars
ChaosArt [1d\]: if bots become the best go player
]
;W[qc]WL[5214.189]C[oonicks [?\]: r6 is a fad bigger than o4 and less complex
ChaosArt [1d\]: whoever creates the next joseki is better than him
Slogger [1k\]: R6 rather strange no ?
stormy [1k\]: zen seems become very strong in the last year
gogonuts [5d\]: i mean r6
gogonuts [5d\]: should be q6
polonius [2d?\]: why this invasion
billywoods [8k\]: r17?
]
;B[qd]BL[5203.525]C[nyquist [1d\]: it's being fed fish brains. becomes smart
ChaosArt [1d\]: ZEN YOU CRAZY! rofl
oonicks [?\]: no r6 is fine against a bot ..?
Uberdude [2d?\]: 3-3 is fine
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: computers will soon become better than humans in all areas
ChaosArt [1d\]: r6 is a good move
oonicks [?\]: r3 might cmfuse zen there.
]
;W[pc]WL[5185.122]C[gogonuts [5d\]: q6 is better because it makes m4 a lot more severe
nyquist [1d\]: chaosart, you're just saying that because the human played it
vegmandu [3d\]: lets hope thats true sparta.
blob [4k\]: why is this a thing?
blob [4k\]: i mean, why was this announced?
]
;B[oc]BL[5173.562]C[nyquist [1d\]: there's tons of money on the line
gogonuts [5d\]: r17 isnt bad, bad its kind of against the grain for zen
polonius [2d?\]: billions
ChaosArt [1d\]: nyquist, im saying that because mr. yilun yang told me today to have a different rhythm of moves, such as low high low high
elephant [2d?\]: No there isn't
Shipper [2k\]: it's a 10+ year tradition
oonicks [?\]: one good way to react on r6 would be q3 or what works, i think q2
ChaosArt [1d\]: nyquist, there is no money bet on this game.
nyquist [1d\]: who?
Drack [14k\]: if computers start playing at pro level .. things will get interesting
ChaosArt [1d\]: nyquist, mr. yilun yang is a 7p pro
billywoods [8k\]: r17 looks bizarrely timed to me *shrugs*
gogonuts [5d\]: must have a pattern bias with hoshi double wing
stormy [1k\]: if tromp wins 3 of 5 games he  wins the bet?
]
;W[dj]WL[5152.234]C[billywoods [8k\]: whaaaat
elephant [2d?\]: R17 is not so unusual
elephant [2d?\]: D10 is, though
stormy [1k\]: or he all 5 needed?
gogonuts [5d\]: but this tenuki is
ChaosArt [1d\]: nyquist, gogonuts is right because w played k4 so q6 really would be better, i didn't notice his move
oonicks [?\]: yes the tenuki is\\
Uberdude [2d?\]: lol
elephant [2d?\]: stormy: It's just best of 5, so only 3 needed
oonicks [?\]: sigh
alienist [6k\]: what is the bet?
gogonuts [5d\]: shows that zens heart wasnt in r17 :-)
blixa [2k\]: who tenukis there?
nyquist [1d\]: 7p, meh. bot ftw
ChaosArt [1d\]: nyquist, w shouldn't have tenukid, because when a group of 2 or more stones is being under attack, tenuki shouldnt be.
Uberdude [2d?\]: d10 should maybe be before 3-3
ChaosArt [1d\]: however, if it is 1 stone under attack by 3 stones, tenuki is possible.
Uberdude [2d?\]: there was very similar pro game
blob [4k\]: in shogi, a machine beat a human yesterday for the first time in history .....i think only go is laft
blob [4k\]: *left
ChaosArt [1d\]: if it is 1 stone under attack by 4 stones, tenuki is a must.
]
;B[od]BL[5112.87]C[gogonuts [5d\]: too slow
blob [4k\]: a pro i meant
begue: There was a $1000 bet last year (which tromp won), but I think this year they are playing for sport.
gogonuts [5d\]: better p18
blixa [2k\]: p18 better?
ChaosArt [1d\]: blob, was the pro the best in the world?
oonicks [?\]: d4
billywoods [8k\]: i don't understand any of these moves. i hope i am not alone.
Uberdude [2d?\]: see http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84255#p84255
gogonuts [5d\]: now zen got a reasonable result
ChaosArt [1d\]: begue- it was 2 years ago
elephant [2d?\]: blob: There are other games, such as arimaa, where computers simply aren't as good as humans
oonicks [?\]: c
Agzam [-\]: 2blob without handy?
gogonuts [5d\]: still ko in that corner
]
;W[gf]WL[5116.214]C[alienist [6k\]: what is the bet?
RayTomes [2d\]: well usually after r17 q16 q17 p17 W does not tenuki
blob [4k\]: i dunno, but it was on the japanese regular news, so it was a thing
billywoods [8k\]: ??????
polonius [2d?\]: because nobody cares enough about arimaa to write a good bot
stormy [1k\]: wow
fluidistic [7k\]: what
Shipper [2k\]: at least p16 is solid
RayTomes [2d\]: yay, Zen move!
tromp [-\]: expected tengen
fluidistic [7k\]: G14... the E8 of yesterday
Bogin [-\]: oh wow, I did not hear about that. Thanks for the news, blob
ChaosArt [1d\]: alienist there was a bet 2 years ago that tromp would keep beating zen before 2011, betting 1000 dollars
billywoods [8k\]: if g14 is a good move then i hate life
begue: ChaosArt, it was December 2010, so about 1 year ago.
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: arimaa is more complicated than go
Uberdude [2d?\]: the bet was not about zen
ChaosArt [1d\]: begue, it was decided he would win before 2011.
gogonuts [5d\]: next expansion J8? :-)
vegmandu [3d\]: thats such a zen move its painful.
Uberdude [2d?\]: it was about computers in general
elephant [2d?\]: Well, anything is more complicated than anything else if you define the right value function
ChaosArt [1d\]: i mean not zen, some other bot.
blob [4k\]: anytime. should be googlable for mor details
Uberdude [2d?\]: zen was not used for the bet games
elephant [2d?\]: Go and arimaa both have things going for them
stormy [1k\]: normaly zen plays more human-like than other bots?
ChaosArt [1d\]: was it manyfaces of go?
alienist [6k\]: thx Choas
ChaosArt [1d\]: np
Uberdude [2d?\]: yes
oonicks [?\]: if you want to help zen learn go you should play f17:)
ChaosArt [1d\]: k
Leibnix [5k\]: plus, to make go more complicated, just add bigger boards
ChaosArt [1d\]: theres a 38x38
alienist [6k\]: go tromp!!
elephant [2d?\]: There's a 64x64 shogi variant
Ridendo [-\]: no
ChaosArt [1d\]: even if a bot beats a pro on 19x19, they will lose on 38x38
ChaosArt [1d\]: rofl
RayTomes [2d\]: I made an offer in 1980s that if a computer could beat me in a series I would pay $10,000. But it  was for next 10 years, so now expired.
Ridendo [-\]: @Chaos cannot be even numbers
vegmandu [3d\]: yes that shogi variant is fun ;)
ChaosArt [1d\]: excuse me?
oonicks [?\]: some g14 like this i seen work
ChaosArt [1d\]: theres no 38x38? is it 39x39 then?
Ridendo [-\]: All go boards are odd numbers
RayTomes [2d\]: 37x37
Ridendo [-\]: yes
nyquist [1d\]: RayTomes, $10k in 1980 is how much nowadays?
ChaosArt [1d\]: 37x37 , sorry
ClemGo [1d?\]: its very interesting that w plays move like g14, funny style
Ridendo [-\]: something like that
RayTomes [2d\]: about $100k
recursion [7k\]: 64x64?
recursion [7k\]: what is is called?
Ridendo [-\]: no even numbers xD
Leibnix [5k\]: did you actually have the cash
Uberdude [2d?\]: there is 38x38 on kgs
recursion [7k\]: also what evidence is there that arimaa is more complicated than go
RayTomes [2d\]: Yes, I would have paid.
Gaviall [11k\]: monster-go
recursion [7k\]: go has a larger state space correct?
stormy [1k\]: there is 4x4, too
billywoods [8k\]: i have played at least a few 2x2s on kgs
ChaosArt [1d\]: if the bot wins in 19x19, they will make it play until it wins on 37X37- then they will make it play on a new 47x47, until it wins- forever onto a monstrous cycle :)
Gaviall [11k\]: unversagoban :D
BlackLodge [3k\]: where is the artcle about the shogi computer beating a human?
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: how strong were you in 1980?
gogonuts [5d\]: vexing choice now
recursion [7k\]: arimaa has a smaller state space and game tree than go
Uberdude [2d?\]: k13 ?
vaansama [6k\]: d13  !!!
nyquist [1d\]: were you just confident and wealthy, or wealthy and promoting computer Go, or just confident? :)
gogonuts [5d\]: time for a parachute move
blob [4k\]: you might need to search for it in Japanese?
Uberdude [2d?\]: arima too inelgant
vaansama [6k\]: d13  !
Uberdude [2d?\]: go has elegant rules
BlackLodge [3k\]: thanks blob
Leibnix [5k\]: yes, I also thing armiaa is not very beautiful
]
;B[jj]BL[4901.38]C[Spartaaaaa [2k\]: and raytomes did you win any money?
ChaosArt [1d\]: someone say money? $.$
oonicks [?\]: b lost:o
vegmandu [3d\]: What I want to see is humans augmented by technology to beat a computer.
polonius [2d?\]: arimaa is too weird and complicated, like chess times 100
gogonuts [5d\]: ok, the simplest expansion move
stormy [1k\]: zen using the normal hardware?
ChaosArt [1d\]: ahaha that would be col
ChaosArt [1d\]: cool
Drack [14k\]: install zen in your beain?
ChaosArt [1d\]: vegmandu
ChaosArt [1d\]: brain* drack
Hikky [2k\]: what if the reading data from a computer were made available to a human
Hikky [2k\]: that would be neat
ChaosArt [1d\]: vegmandu just said the same lol
oonicks [?\]: p11
]
;W[pq]WL[5068.775]C[Leibnix [5k\]: has anyone tried go computers on tibetan go?
ChaosArt [1d\]: wat.
nyquist [1d\]: i think chess pros had something like that... kasparov suggested something similar
Shipper [2k\]: black's formation is slightly less thin than white's
alienist [6k\]: done in chess
Uberdude [2d?\]: The rules of go are so elegant, organic, and rigorously logical that if intelligent life forms exist elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly play go.  - Edward Lasker
ChaosArt [1d\]: is kasparov a boxer
]
;B[qq]BL[4865.689]C[BlackLodge [3k\]:  hate playng these moyo type games
polonius [2d?\]: zen loves them though
RayTomes [2d\]: p3 r4 ?
Leibnix [5k\]: I love moyo games
squigwort: how strong is tromp?
recursion [7k\]: i dont like moyo games
drjeanpoul [7k?\]: lokks like 10k games 
costco [2k\]: can white live top right if he makes a move there
blob [4k\]: i love ripping moyo apart
]
;W[jf]WL[5031.852]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: The rules of Arimaa are so inelegant, artificial, and crazily illogical that if intelligent life forms exist elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly don't play Arimaa  - Uberdude
polonius [2d?\]: :)
Leibnix [5k\]: lol
elephant [2d?\]: costco: Top right is a ko sort of shape
begue: lol
alienist [6k\]: moyo=advantage bot?
fluidistic [7k\]: lol uberdude
oonicks [?\]: someone has to teach it to hit on the shoulder
Ridendo [-\]: wow computer dan players play weird
costco [2k\]: i was thinking something like that, thanks
fluidistic [7k\]: sounds like interesting to learn
vaansama [6k\]: how computer see the board:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDQccLdZWc
oonicks [?\]: p11
kuroro [-\]: anyone care to tell me why are they playing again?
polonius [2d?\]: they like go
RayTomes [2d\]: Zen always plays moyo style - no particluar advantage unless human is silly enough to let it go too far
Arhiman [3d\]: try to learn japanese rules first, fluid
nyquist [1d\]: "Advanced Chess" was the name of thing Kasparov suggested where a human is aided by a bot
fluidistic [7k\]: zen plays only chinese rules , no need to learn japanese rules
blob [4k\]: it isn't computers that play weird, it is just a result of monte carlo search.... have randomness built in and the result will be fuzzy at best
gogonuts [5d\]: zen is threatening to play m10
RayTomes [2d\]: Uberdude, my friends don't understand why I like go and not all these inelligant games. They call me a games snob.
alienist [6k\]: random=myth
oonicks [?\]: well you should know.. gogo
gogonuts [5d\]: n10 isnt a bad idea for b here
oonicks [?\]: i think zen will get that 'chance'
blob [4k\]: i'm not touching that with a 6ft pole, alienist
hydroxide [16k\]: wooot go tromp!!
vaansama [6k\]: tromp looks like forest gump, nice face and great talent?
]
;B[kf]BL[4706.796]C[hydroxide [16k\]: haskell ftw
cdpruitt [3k\]: This is already baffling
MaxDWolf [4k?\]: I should not have watched "Captain America" last night. Lost to many brain cells. Now too stupid to properly appreciate game.
gogonuts [5d\]: oops
Ootakamoku [3d\]: what is that move?
gogonuts [5d\]: dont like it
Aivonix [?\]: so just have 1 question, Zen19N is a robot, want to confirm that ?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, no kidding, it looks just wrong
oonicks [?\]: mayb w can outcalculate b there
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b really planning to trade thickness here?
gogonuts [5d\]: b too strong there for that kind of move
]
;W[kg]WL[4998.72]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: seems to w advantage
blob [4k\]: a robot without limbs
]
;B[jg]BL[4691.775]C[Heskey [25k\]: God Damnit ;x
Uberdude [2d?\]: so k14 seems to show that my suggestion of tengen at k13 is what zen would play
billywoods [8k\]: what is this nonsense
cdpruitt [3k\]: Fight!
billywoods [8k\]: i tell 20ks off for playing like this
gogonuts [5d\]: L14 looks like a serious problem to me
Shipper [2k\]: sacrifice top for strong center
ifold [?\]: \\o/
Hikky [2k\]: lmao
Uberdude [2d?\]: tromp learnt crosscut from last game
vaansama [6k\]: this is a 30k game
gogonuts [5d\]: lol, which side is zen?
]
;W[ke]WL[4964.478]C[fluidistic [7k\]: w
]
;B[lf]BL[4687.847]C[vaansama [6k\]: darth side
blixa [2k\]: the funny looking one
neophyte [5k\]: zen didn't well at fighting last night
cdpruitt [3k\]: Who won yesterday?
Liisa [2d\]: this should be good for black, because Zen overvalues center. 
fluidistic [7k\]: human
Ootakamoku [3d\]: this game is actually staged, I saw two double digit kyusplay this game a few hours ago, zen and tromp are just replaying it.
]
;W[je]WL[4941.488]C[RayTomes [2d\]: zen is W today - change of colour
billywoods [8k\]: heh
blob [4k\]: if a high dan would play those moves b played, you'd be all like "wow, amzing" 
cdpruitt [3k\]: k, ty
gogonuts [5d\]: now zen has the better position imo
billywoods [8k\]: i'm not sure i would, blob
polonius [2d?\]: criticizing high dans is the best
billywoods [8k\]: "wow" maybe, but "what the hell" would certainly be my main emotion
PaperTiger [2k\]: dan-only comments available in my clone game, if you want less noise
Aivonix [?\]: what does the bet involve ?
blob [4k\]: epeen
stormy [1k\]: g14 looks nice now:)
icewater [1k\]: j17 or L17?
Uberdude [2d?\]: ray, yes i am a game snob too
BlackLodge [3k\]: well they are both mid-high dan players 
Ootakamoku [3d\]: papertiger, that wont help much, since I have dan rank :P
Uberdude [2d?\]: it's like going to rome
PaperTiger [2k\]: you don't have to comment :)
Aivonix [?\]: epeen sounds like no fun :/
Shipper [2k\]: this exchange seems fair for both sides
Uberdude [2d?\]: it spoils you
Uberdude [2d?\]: anytime i go to roman sites in the uk
Uberdude [2d?\]: they seem so rubbish now
gogonuts [5d\]: im for b k112 now
Uberdude [2d?\]: slight bump that is 'site of roman ampitheatre'
Liisa [2d\]: just K12 to keep it simple
gogonuts [5d\]: atleast get something too
RayTomes [2d\]: how do we find clone game Papertiger?
elephant [2d?\]: Uber: But we have to be proud of our glorious roman invaders
gogonuts [5d\]: fighting at the top right away now cant be good
PaperTiger [2k\]: look in my games list for clone game
Uberdude [2d?\]: the colosseum is the real thing and still there!
Uberdude [2d?\]: and the accompanying national trust tearoom?
RayTomes [2d\]: ahhh, it helps to show not only rated games :)
vegmandu [3d\]: what should b play ? J13 k12?L12
Liisa [2d\]: J13 should be also possible
blob [4k\]: just k12 imo
]
;B[ig]BL[4464.406]C[gogonuts [5d\]: yes, k12 or j13 is avexing problem
Hikky [2k\]: B should resign !
vaansama [6k\]: j13
Hikky [2k\]: osnap
gogonuts [5d\]: best not to think about it and just play k12 :-)
]
;W[hg]WL[4927.19]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: woah
Hikky [2k\]: fast response from zen
Shipper [2k\]: quick response
blob [4k\]: he thought too much :p
Uberdude [2d?\]: i expected something to munch k16
gogonuts [5d\]: hm
AsSeenOnTV [3d\]: h15
Shipper [2k\]: b is quite thick
peniiopaa: move 28 i couldve finished 2 full games by now
esrig [6k\]: m15
RayTomes [2d\]: H13 a bit like ayabot style ... it loves to take liberties
gogonuts [5d\]: h13 looks weird, but ib b loses a lib at j14 w has a ladder ...
vaansama [6k\]: blitz game is really bad
billywoods [8k\]: hey, liberties are cool
Liisa [2d\]: tenuki here. Black may otherwice get overconcentrated
vaansama [6k\]: so penii, u doing bad
blob [4k\]: ignore h13 and play l16
Hikky [2k\]: there should be a player named "america" who loves liberties even more !
Capella [-\]: web page for the challenge: http://dcook.org/gobet/
vegmandu [3d\]: playing at the head of two is suppose to be good
]
;B[if]BL[4334.91]
;W[ie]WL[4913.424]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i dont approve of that exchange
peniiopaa: j14 bad
Shipper [2k\]: white's shape seems awkward
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, looks bad
blob [4k\]: neither do i
vegmandu [3d\]: me niether.
billywoods [8k\]: "ouch", said k16
peniiopaa: free move
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b h12 would have been nice imo
Ootakamoku [3d\]: instead of j14 
]
;B[hh]BL[4298.14]C[gogonuts [5d\]: prob h12 now, but i still dont like j14
recursion [7k\]: games need to be as artificial and inelegant as make games that are interesting and fun
recursion [7k\]: i think arimaa is better than go
]
;W[hf]WL[4885.587]C[RayTomes [2d\]: why are you here?
Avalon0487 [5k\]: yeh o_O
recursion [7k\]: because there are no books on arimaa and noone to play with
recursion [7k\]: so im sticking to go
Ootakamoku [3d\]: depiste the empty triaggle, w got a better result imo
NoC: nice one recrusion
oonicks [?\]: champions of aji keshi
NoC: i've been trying to find people to play arimaa with\\
polonius [2d?\]: you could write a book on arimaa
threeoone [5k\]: arimaa is beyond my understanding, i stick to go :)
NoC: there are a few books on airmaa
Ootakamoku [3d\]: aint b kinda comitted to playing g12 now?
RayTomes [2d\]: m15 ... gotta give up K16
]
;B[gh]BL[4227.159]C[peniiopaa: you know you play slow when a computer is faster than you
NoC: the problem is that the is a copyright restriction on arimaa
gogonuts [5d\]: had to play g12, but it leaves a real weakness
vegmandu [3d\]: He could have play j11.
]
;W[le]WL[4847.297]C[RayTomes [2d\]: l12 k11 m15 push!
ajahuang [6d\]: black damaged a lot
threeoone [5k\]: agree
]
;B[mf]BL[4205.75]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: after b defensd, where is b going to extend to from the wall? h2 maybe?
ajahuang [6d\]: the top side territory is too big
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: there is an arimaa server
oonicks [?\]: i am not impressed g12 but w still suffers, from never playing deep into moyos
BlackLodge [3k\]: but isnt the top undercut
gogonuts [5d\]: cut the arimaa bull please
]
;W[mm]WL[4795.763]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: b wall just seems too big, cant use that size wall properly
blob [4k\]: black's overall shape is crap now
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: ok time to move to chess
ajahuang [6d\]: also, K10 didn't defend J12 cut
Shipper [2k\]: black's shape is fine to me
polonius [2d?\]: no point, tromp is better at chess than zen
Shipper [2k\]: very thick
Spartaaaaa [2k\]: he is?
ajahuang [6d\]: black is behind for sure
Cephei [2k\]: hmm still seems like white has the better influence, with less stones
billywoods [8k\]: i think i'd prefer to be white here...
gogonuts [5d\]: yes w is ahead
gogonuts [5d\]: L14 was just wrong
gogonuts [5d\]: and k13 didnt make it right :-)
blob [4k\]: j14 even worse
ajahuang [6d\]: L14 was bad
goIngo [-\]: hello aja, nice to have you around
LeFourBe [4d\]: wow, computer have really improved :)
ajahuang [6d\]: hello Ingo
gogonuts [5d\]: hard to decide where to play - just p3 maybe?
ajahuang [6d\]: c3 is urgent
ajahuang [6d\]: then must live a group in top
blob [4k\]: c17 looks ok too
gogonuts [5d\]: c17 good enough there?
LeFourBe [4d\]: K16 seems just alone :)
]
;B[mk]BL[4034.31]C[gogonuts [5d\]: oops
peniiopaa: too small
ajahuang [6d\]: but against Zen, play solid is the strategy
RayTomes [2d\]: defense of wall is wrong strategy?
oonicks [?\]: zem will never play c4 or so just never b can allways invade later
Liisa [2d\]: this might indeed be good against Zen
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen is not so good at territory sense
blob [4k\]: immah gonna sit here with mah otha stones
threeoone [5k\]: c3 somewhat doesnt fit the center strehgth b has i think
]
;W[me]WL[4746.794]C[Liisa [2d\]: Zen undervalues sides, so it might play something unreasonable
blob [4k\]: so what does Zen value?
RayTomes [2d\]: I thought M15 was better than G12. What do stronger dans say?
oonicks [?\]: wow 4 pts zen now 2 moves to get 1 point more then l16 genious
ajahuang [6d\]: against Zen, just play solid, even if behind in points
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen will play slow moves
gogonuts [5d\]: n15 looks good after b played n9
RayTomes [2d\]: big follow up
RayTomes [2d\]: B cannot stand W O14
oonicks [?\]: b m17 u mean?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: n9 looks so painfull to play
gogonuts [5d\]: really must answer at o14
]
;B[nf]BL[3939.889]C[blob [4k\]: his whole moyo looks like it's cringing
ajahuang [6d\]: J12 is really serious
Ootakamoku [3d\]: can w f17 live still?
Alife361 [?\]: j7 is next from bot
neophyte [5k\]: b shape looks somewhat inefficient
threeoone [5k\]: n9 doesnt do anything for the right side too, still lots of rom
threeoone [5k\]: +o
]
;W[mc]WL[4701.256]C[gogonuts [5d\]: w p3 not bad now imo
gogonuts [5d\]: oh
gogonuts [5d\]: not bad
RickSako [8k?\]: ow
Ootakamoku [3d\]: wow.. w really claiming the top
peniiopaa: big
gogonuts [5d\]: sell the corner koi
ajahuang [6d\]: O18
oonicks [?\]: well cool
gogonuts [5d\]: ko
vegmandu [3d\]: d17?
gogonuts [5d\]: no kois in that corner
Ootakamoku [3d\]: f14?
billywoods [8k\]: poor k16, he's having the whole board thrown at him
ajahuang [6d\]: maybe E18
blob [4k\]: d12?
gogonuts [5d\]: awesome suggestion
gogonuts [5d\]: do or die
Uberdude [2d?\]: maybe w wants to r2 later
Uberdude [2d?\]: p3 a little heavy
ajahuang [6d\]: or D17
Ootakamoku [3d\]: d17 looks easier to live
Ootakamoku [3d\]: uses the h15 aji better?
threeoone [5k\]: b is overconcentrated :-9
oonicks [?\]: mayb this confuses human:)
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b should play m4, and say n7 is dead!
threeoone [5k\]: id like to have zen on littlegolem.net aja
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Did Zen win yesterday?
Shipper [2k\]: no
polonius [2d?\]: no
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Wow.
ajahuang [6d\]: zen is not my program, threeoone
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Thought Zen was in the lead for sure there.
Shipper [2k\]: it seems like bots play great openings and then things start going down hill in the middle game
RayTomes [2d\]: it got Tromped yesterday!
threeoone [5k\]: sure i know, just sharing a wish :-9
Uberdude [2d?\]: n9 seems to lack spirit
billywoods [8k\]: i guess openings are easy to program?
]
;B[fc]BL[3721.12]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: shipper quite the opposite
threeoone [5k\]: far from billy
vegmandu [3d\]: try talking to gghideki its his bot.
vegmandu [3d\]: I think
neophyte [5k\]: maybe n9 is anti-computer strategy
billywoods [8k\]: by which i mean easier than middlegame :)
elephant [2d?\]: Different people seem very sure of totally opposite things when it comes to bots
Ootakamoku [3d\]: d17 oly move here?
Liisa [2d\]: f17 looks dubious
]
;W[hc]WL[4656.207]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: wow..
Uberdude [2d?\]: zen might tenuki
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Whoa.
peniiopaa: mistake
Ootakamoku [3d\]: wel, f17 looks good now :)
Liisa [2d\]: c17, now it should be goo for b
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Bot following the ancient proverb "Always use thickness to make territory".
gogonuts [5d\]: successful f17
Dowon [-\]: black B17
Dowon [-\]: W B16
Dowon [-\]: W die
GriGriGo [2k\]: what should have been W answer ?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Deny corner GriGriGo.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: grigrigo, d17 was only move I think
gogonuts [5d\]: something in the corner surely
RayTomes [2d\]: B F15 now
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Somehow.
Shipper [2k\]: I mean, finding the same or similar opening in a handful of pro games isn't too difficult to do, but finding the same middlegame tactics in a bunch of game is next to impossible
oonicks [?\]: its ok, capture k16 safe for miai j17 or c17
GriGriGo [2k\]: ok
oonicks [?\]: mayb there is a thing better in c14
]
;B[dc]BL[3626.348]C[blob [4k\]: if b takes corner, w takes c13ish for profit?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Shipper, that's all well and good, but even if you uploaded all of the pro games ever into your database, what do you do if your opponent opens on T1?
gogonuts [5d\]: not an improvement on c17 imo
ajahuang [6d\]: tromp wants to produce a ko
ajahuang [6d\]: e16 ko
ndkrempel [4d?\]: T1? thats easy, you treat it as a pass throughout the opening
gogonuts [5d\]: b starting to fish in muddy waters
alienist [6k\]: proverb "don't use thickness to make territory"?
Shipper [2k\]: T1 is self-defeating, a bot can play pretty much anywhere and it'll still be a better move
]
;W[cd]WL[4606.244]C[RayTomes [2d\]: what is status at top right now? does n17 mean that W can live there?
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
oonicks [?\]: may b w will connect g15 e 14 after corner but c13 bit much to hope for
ajahuang [6d\]: don't use thickness to make territory, that's why L14 was bad
threeoone [5k\]: nice move
polonius [2d?\]: t1 s2 obviously
Ootakamoku [3d\]: c17 e18 
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yes, but that defeats your logic on how easy it is to program openings based on pro games.
ndkrempel [4d?\]: you could treat all unrecognized moves as if they were passed and so didnt exist on the board
ndkrempel [4d?\]: that would be at least... entertaining
BobWhoosta [1k\]: heh
oonicks [?\]: b is not a pro so he failed at playing it?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: C16 slightly concillatory, but it does grab sente.
billywoods [8k\]: c16?
billywoods [8k\]: oh.
neophyte [5k\]: does zen have an opening library?
polonius [2d?\]: no
BobWhoosta [1k\]: billy, I'm trying to find logic in an illogical move...
ajahuang [6d\]: oh c16
vegmandu [3d\]:  w has e18 now.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: no
]
;B[cc]BL[3532.069]C[polonius [2d?\]: zen follows the same logic in the opening as throughout the game
blob [4k\]: c3
oonicks [?\]: its own i wud think
billywoods [8k\]: fair enough, bob :P
oonicks [?\]: g16 eg
vegmandu [3d\]: oh your right.
oonicks [?\]: 14
oonicks [?\]: soz
ChaosArt [1d\]: im back
BobWhoosta [1k\]: heh, well vegmandu found the logic in it fully...
alienist [6k\]: b played self into corner
ChaosArt [1d\]: and it looks like zen is really ahead, does he usually mess up at endgame from a position of winning like this?
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen lost some points here, as I said, slow moves
]
;W[ne]WL[4565.18]C[oonicks [?\]: brr
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I think Zen behind Chaos.
jhnc [3d?\]: Is there a particular reason that the previous game record isn't available?
polonius [2d?\]: zen is pro level at the endgame
goIngo [-\]: ManyFaces sees 55 % for white here
BobWhoosta [1k\]: That moyo is just a small sketching of stones, not really anything.
shyin [11k\]: zen was winning last game and ended up losing anyway
threeoone [5k\]: personally id played e18 rather than c17 on the top left maybe im too anxious
costco [2k\]: last night zen lozt from a winning position right?
alienist [6k\]: bot play slow when leading
]
;B[of]BL[3450.047]C[oonicks [?\]: 0- pt move and gote
blob [4k\]: zen should play c3....
oonicks [?\]: oh well:)
oonicks [?\]: zen 1pt
ajahuang [6d\]: e16 first
threeoone [5k\]: o15 is only bad 
Anthony22 [2k\]: which ones the bot?
fluidistic [7k\]: w
polonius [2d?\]: the one with the funny haircut
]
;W[oe]WL[4516.534]C[blob [4k\]: lol
Anthony22 [2k\]: hah thx
Shipper [2k\]: R14 work here?
speedchase [6k\]: what are you talking about, that hair cut is AWESOME!
billywoods [8k\]: p15? >.<
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Seems like white is playing yose, just making black stronger.
Shipper [2k\]: meh, Q14 still better than R14
]
;B[pf]BL[3407.198]C[oonicks [?\]: e4 u dare it zen
fluidistic [7k\]: Q seven
billywoods [8k\]: t1 is still wide open
goIngo [-\]: p3 now
]
;W[pe]WL[4460.223]C[vegmandu [3d\]: will zen play in the lower left?
]
;B[qe]BL[3403.474]C[polonius [2d?\]: lol
ajahuang [6d\]: strange
polonius [2d?\]: zen got stuck
Anthony22 [2k\]: cannot compute?
fluidistic [7k\]: what is strange ajahuang?
Shipper [2k\]: well that was a nice little 5 points in sente
polonius [2d?\]: these moves are strange
cyryts [2k\]: gomuku mode?
billywoods [8k\]: :D
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Could black have ignored Q15?
ajahuang [6d\]: this pushes are completely useless
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Or was that too much aji?
blob [4k\]: well i think the monte carlo bandwagon is too crude and inefficient to beat pro's with current gen hardware
Ootakamoku [3d\]: no bob
ajahuang [6d\]: P15,Q15
reprisal [4d?\]: not at all useless
reprisal [4d?\]: they help b a lot :)
]
;W[ed]WL[4411.025]C[ajahuang [6d\]: oops
threeoone [5k\]: more than useless destroy the right side aji
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, I agree reprisal.
ajahuang [6d\]: I mean useless for White
gogonuts [5d\]: he misunderstood on purpose
costco [2k\]: why not p18 for white
goocheen [1d\]: b17
BlackLodge [3k\]: well b 18 lives right?  
BobWhoosta [1k\]: White was following the ancient proverb "Play sente yose immediately".
blob [4k\]: p18 is small
BlackLodge [3k\]: f18
goIngo [-\]: MnayFaces sees 50 now for black
ajahuang [6d\]: B17
goIngo [-\]: 50 %
]
;B[fb]BL[3332.338]C[goocheen [1d\]: b17
billywoods [8k\]: is that a 'chance of winning', golngo?
polonius [2d?\]: you should write a book of ancient proverbs BobWhoosta
reprisal [4d?\]: surprised zen could not attack f17 more strongly
reprisal [4d?\]: that stone started out very weak
ajahuang [6d\]: oh this is bad
oonicks [?\]: 50 close many faces assumes w makes a defensive move next?
blob [4k\]: c7
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I could compile and edit polonius, but I cannot take credit for them...
Anthony22 [2k\]: b or w?
reprisal [4d?\]: f18 is bad?
polonius [2d?\]: of course not, they're ancient
]
;W[hm]WL[4356.752]C[ajahuang [6d\]: F18 was bad, yes
BobWhoosta [1k\]: My favorite ancient proverb is thus: "Play kikashi before kikashi".
billywoods [8k\]: :D
polonius [2d?\]: i like the one "if you like ko, don't play go"
blob [4k\]: that's the zen i know :)
GriGriGo [2k\]: huh ?
polonius [2d?\]: this is what's known as a high shimari
ndkrempel [4d?\]: where would you play instead of F18?
reprisal [4d?\]: why is f18 bad?
ajahuang [6d\]: B17
goIngo [-\]: manyfaces did not like f18
reprisal [4d?\]: it seems so...prudent to me
ndkrempel [4d?\]: that leaves white E18 later
ajahuang [6d\]: of course, B17 is bigger
Shipper [2k\]: Zen's "play thin to win" strategy
BlackLodge [3k\]: f18 seems like a joseki type move right?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: What about G17 for sente?
reprisal [4d?\]: aja, you are not worried about w e18?
elephant [2d?\]: BlackLodge: Yeah, but the circumstances are far enough from empty board that joseki is not necessarily right
ajahuang [6d\]: B16 can live, reprisal
Anthony22 [2k\]: b17 is more sente? is that right?
elephant [2d?\]: Not that it's even the only joseki move in the first place
reprisal [4d?\]: okay, thanks
blob [4k\]: yeah, b16  gives aji to the left side too
alienist [6k\]: plenty room for b invasion-but....
nuBO [1d\]: both
qQQp [-\]: manyfaces is cheering for tromp. It doesn't want zen to win because it couldn't ;-)
ajahuang [6d\]: maybe H9
Anthony22 [2k\]: any bots watching then?
ajahuang [6d\]: play solid
goIngo [-\]: mf does not know that it is analysing zen ;-)
ajahuang [6d\]: let Zen to strength its territory
oonicks [?\]: zen had a succes in the neutralising of k16 for the rest he maintains the stand , if i give you 5 places to live , at least i can put stones on pretty places
ajahuang [6d\]: it will play slow moves
polonius [2d?\]: tromp will invade
ndkrempel [4d?\]: the endgame for black at H18 or J19 seems big compared to white getting E18
Anthony22 [2k\]: b5 ?
vegmandu [3d\]: c3 ?
blob [4k\]: h7 is actually a pretty good move isn't it?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: C3 isn't good here?
ajahuang [6d\]: H9 is big too
alienist [6k\]: b play b5 /;~)
goIngo [-\]: c3 is what mf likes here
reprisal [4d?\]: i dunno h7 is hard to like
billywoods [8k\]: h7 is a hard move to answer, but i dunno if that makes it better than a more standard move
blixa [2k\]: c3 kinda makes a big house for w
billywoods [8k\]: i quite like just playing in the corner :/
reprisal [4d?\]: i like h9 idea, that is thick
Shipper [2k\]: The J12 aji is strengthened by h7
Anthony22 [2k\]: because bot doesnt care about aesthetics, it will play the most effective move it can find
vegmandu [3d\]: still w can cut at J12 whenever it wants to
goIngo [-\]: did john play at similar speed yesterfay?
reprisal [4d?\]: well i dont care about aesthetics either
reprisal [4d?\]: but h7 is hard to like on utility
blob [4k\]: really?
Anthony22 [2k\]: you sure do, since you have a subconscious
benandiand [6d\]: GO TROMP!!!!!!!1
Drack [14k\]: h7 is a monte carlo move
benandiand [6d\]: 3-3!!!!
lorentz [?\]: yes, Ingo
reprisal [4d?\]: my subconscious doesn't care about aesthetics though :)
blob [4k\]: h7 is a move i'd be proud to play
Anthony22 [2k\]: -_-
alienist [6k\]: subconscious=myth
goIngo [-\]: hi richard
goIngo [-\]: thx
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Go programmers need to rethink their algorithms and work out a "Honte Carlo" method.
uurtamo [-\]: beautiful sentence fragment: "[14k\]: h7 is a monte carlo move"
billywoods [8k\]: nice.
Shipper [2k\]: *groan*
goIngo [-\]: "honte carlo" is nice
ajahuang [6d\]: direct the situation to let Zen choose where is bigger, is the strategy against Zen
goIngo [-\]: to my subconscious
oonicks [?\]: it is great 'honte carlo' goood plan
Drack [14k\]: Hmm?  I don't think many humans or non-montecarlo bots would think of h7
]
;B[fq]BL[2969.263]C[uurtamo [-\]: nice.
blob [4k\]: d3
ajahuang [6d\]: brave :)
darrencook [?\]: John liked long thinks last year in London too. I always thought he'd end up losing on time...
vegmandu [3d\]: nuts.
darrencook [?\]: ...but he always played the endgame both quickly and accurately.
reprisal [4d?\]: and then he wins on outreading the bot
goIngo [-\]: some black moves look like anti-bot style
yoyoma [2d\]: Are people even aware of overtime?
uurtamo [-\]: since bots use time so poorly, it's a very smart way to use time.
reprisal [4d?\]: also necesssary since they play fast
]
;W[eq]WL[4305.649]C[reprisal [4d?\]: it makes a big difference to think on opponents time
billywoods [8k\]: uh oh
Shipper [2k\]: it's the only way to beat a bot that can think hundreds if not thousands of times faster than a human
reprisal [4d?\]: you notice it playing against kids
reprisal [4d?\]: have to burn all your own time since they think for 3s/move
polonius [2d?\]: what about bot kids
uurtamo [-\]: kids are pure pattern matching, right? or is it exploratory?
reprisal [4d?\]: i think their synapses just fire a lot faster
Uberdude [2d?\]: yes, all kids are the same
Cephei [2k\]: does the bot "think" on human's time too?
Uberdude [2d?\]: those kid pros, they don't read at all
Deimos [1k\]: kids are those little human thingies
uurtamo [-\]: shorties.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Yeah, Bot surfs google on human's time.
RayTomes [2d\]: W has ladder blocks everywhere!
oonicks [?\]: only the first minutes after conception they are pure pattern matching, after that tehre is evolution
]
;B[fp]BL[2877.573]C[billywoods [8k\]: all of the ladders all of the time
Shipper [2k\]: evolution? lol
blob [4k\]: so who said h7 lacks utility? :p
ajahuang [6d\]: E6 is perfect surrounding
uurtamo [-\]: do you think that jon was reading out the usual responses to f4 to see what effect k4 and h7 would have?
reprisal [4d?\]: b played in a way to make h7 highly relevant
polonius [2d?\]: wouldn't c3 do that too
reprisal [4d?\]: he should already know what k4 does, at least in general terms
gopub [7k\]: e 5 
]
;W[en]WL[4243.009]C[peniiopaa: e5 bad
Shipper [2k\]: how would an attachment at k3 fare?
blob [4k\]: e6 good
RayTomes [2d\]: seems c3 would give sente life and B first move to break thru W loose wall
uurtamo [-\]: c3 feels like it would have been a disaster for b, since it'd just be more buildup for w's giant LL side.
oonicks [?\]: c6 great
reprisal [4d?\]: yeah h7 is nicely placed now, don't like this line
uurtamo [-\]: e6 loose.
oonicks [?\]: who knows b jumps f6
Uberdude [2d?\]: yes, b played too bookish
Uberdude [2d?\]: he assumed h7 was a bad move that can be ignoreed
RayTomes [2d\]: k3
ajahuang [6d\]: K3?
Uberdude [2d?\]: that is dangerous against zen
ajahuang [6d\]: agree
peniiopaa: ZEN IS ACTUALLY SAI
uurtamo [-\]: could fit two live groups in the b8 area.
reprisal [4d?\]: e6 instead of d6 is nice form
Uberdude [2d?\]: it is good at makeing weird moves make sense
uurtamo [-\]: ok.
oonicks [?\]: zense
blob [4k\]: still, nobody offered much of a response too h7 when it was played
blob [4k\]: *to
reprisal [4d?\]: i liked aja's idea
elephant [2d?\]: H7 wasn't particularly surprising when it was played
reprisal [4d?\]: of h9
Uberdude [2d?\]: c3 is easy
reprisal [4d?\]: that's thick
vegmandu [3d\]: H3. ?
goIngo [-\]: my comment was that f3 looked as a strange response
uurtamo [-\]: h3 makes one eye?
ajahuang [6d\]: H9 might not be the best, just a strategy against Zen
peniiopaa: h3 = bad
Uberdude [2d?\]: h9 to fix j12 and give invade reducation possbilities/
reprisal [4d?\]: h3 also helps make h7 good i think
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen is worse than Crazy Stone in territoroy sense
Uberdude [2d?\]: as w not gonna seal with 1 move?
RayTomes [2d\]: k3 makes 2 eyes, just nit sure where yet  ;-)
RayTomes [2d\]: not*
uurtamo [-\]: ;)
reprisal [4d?\]: aja>>but it seems okay against human too
goIngo [-\]: a bot might like m4 now for black
uurtamo [-\]: i would just cry in this situation. it looks horrible for b.
reprisal [4d?\]: since i feel w has difficulty sealing his areas
gogonuts [5d\]: zens advantage was getting diffuse, but this head on assault pronounces it again
ajahuang [6d\]: 5 people fight 2
ajahuang [6d\]: E3, D4, E6, H7 and K4
ajahuang [6d\]: fight F3 and F4
reprisal [4d?\]: but b has sente
oonicks [?\]: b will correctly play f6?
reprisal [4d?\]: so all is okay :)
uurtamo [-\]: well, b can't ignore e6.
vliu12 [5k\]: still hard to fight 5 even if u get the first punch
reprisal [4d?\]: all kibbitzers care about is who has sente
reprisal [4d?\]: not how good it is :)
RayTomes [2d\]: must play flexiby ... F6 helps w too much
ndkrempel [4d?\]: but the odds of the fight are stacked in B's favour
ndkrempel [4d?\]: he just needs to live, he doesnt mind if white lives too :)
gogonuts [5d\]: e6 looks like an improvement on d6 here
]
;B[jq]BL[2620.812]C[RayTomes [2d\]: Yay!
Shipper [2k\]: yay
uurtamo [-\]: jesus.
vegmandu [3d\]: ajahuang where would you play?
billywoods [8k\]: whoosh!
reprisal [4d?\]: yes e6 is nice form
RayTomes [2d\]: Aja and I called it
uurtamo [-\]: sack, meet rock.
fluidistic [7k\]: J3 for sure here
threeoone [5k\]: hmm k2 it was isnt it ?
uurtamo [-\]: that is badass.
ajahuang [6d\]: yes J3 for sure
oonicks [?\]: b4 still lives
]
;W[iq]WL[4208.146]C[RayTomes [2d\]: j4?
ajahuang [6d\]: yes J4
goIngo [-\]: j3: 58% for white, says manyfaces
uurtamo [-\]: if j4, this is about to be a 30 move nightmare.
gogonuts [5d\]: lol
fluidistic [7k\]: more important, what does zen says?
blob [4k\]: zen says "bring it baby"
RayTomes [2d\]: LOL
fluidistic [7k\]: I mean its winning %
goIngo [-\]: hideki, can you tell us zen %?
qQQp [-\]: military secret
Uberdude [2d?\]: j4 l3 k2 h3 ?
billywoods [8k\]: zen says "shh, i'm playing"
fluidistic [7k\]: Hiideki left... :(
]
;B[ip]BL[2552.115]C[polonius [2d?\]: ZenAuthor is here
uurtamo [-\]: move 91 before nightmare is over.
fluidistic [7k\]: but zen author does not hold the hardware as far as I know
]
;W[kp]WL[4172.937]C[fluidistic [7k\]: own*
vegmandu [3d\]: wow
gogonuts [5d\]: L4 is very composed
uurtamo [-\]: mindboggling.
vegmandu [3d\]: b live small now.
fluidistic [7k\]: can C3 work for b?
gogonuts [5d\]: L4 is the kind of move you like the moment you see it
RayTomes [2d\]: not yet
fluidistic [7k\]: ok thx
wizigo [2k\]: if you want to die big C3 is nice
uurtamo [-\]: L4 is the kind of move i simply cannot see.
vegmandu [3d\]: what next gogonuts.
fluidistic [7k\]: H3 for b
ajahuang [6d\]: how about D3 :)
gogonuts [5d\]: dunno :-)
RayTomes [2d\]: I have an urge to play L3
uurtamo [-\]: L3 looks dangerous.
fluidistic [7k\]: I'd H3 if I was b
RayTomes [2d\]: yes
blob [4k\]: l3 elicits h4
gogonuts [5d\]: d3, wow, what a suggestion :-)
ndkrempel [4d?\]: J2 H3 H2 L3 K2 H4?
ajahuang [6d\]: with E2, black can J2
uurtamo [-\]: L3 elicits laughter followed by H4
reprisal [4d?\]: mmm wish i saw ideas like d3
ajahuang [6d\]: if E2 is a sente
RayTomes [2d\]: yes J2 is a way to go ... but L3 first is nice
wizigo [2k\]: w will H2
gogonuts [5d\]: w must answer e2 imo
]
;B[hq]BL[2392.866]C[fluidistic [7k\]: what I thought
fotland [?\]: does anyone have a win rate?
polonius [2d?\]: 100% for tromp
fluidistic [7k\]: only Hideki knows zen's one
polonius [2d?\]: so far :)
goIngo [-\]: mf says 56 for white (your bot!)
]
;W[ec]WL[4137.885]C[ajahuang [6d\]: OK black alive
ndkrempel [4d?\]: what will black do after white extends??
ajahuang [6d\]: K2 then G2
threeoone [5k\]: fuego 0.49
ajahuang [6d\]: E2 is sente
uurtamo [-\]: whaaa?
]
;B[eb]BL[2378.703]C[gogonuts [5d\]: oh man, e17 is silly
ajahuang [6d\]: then Black can H5
RayTomes [2d\]: zen does timesuji!
billywoods [8k\]: oh help
Liisa [2d\]: e17 says: I lost!
blob [4k\]: e13?
fluidistic [7k\]: was a fast move that kept sente
reprisal [4d?\]: what a strange time to play that
ajahuang [6d\]: oh E17 is really bad
reprisal [4d?\]: usually it means AI has won, 100%
daniblitz [1k\]: Why is this game at top?
RayTomes [2d\]: j2 k2 h4 j5 h2 then what?
reprisal [4d?\]: but i think that is not the case here :)
wizigo [2k\]: it's a stupid move...
ajahuang [6d\]: G18 was White's sente if White had B17 first
Shipper [2k\]: e17 aj eraser
reprisal [4d?\]: could b consider tenuki it?
uurtamo [-\]: daniblitz, because it is the most awesome,obviously.
oonicks [?\]: to me it suggest has seen j2
goIngo [-\]: hmm, manyfaces did not like e17
goIngo [-\]: now black back at 48 %
]
;W[ir]WL[4080.193]C[ndkrempel [4d?\]: i guess J2 K2 H2 G2 H4 E2 D2 J5 but ten white can H5?
]
;B[io]BL[2374.398]C[billywoods [8k\]: wah
RayTomes [2d\]: ahhh!
daniblitz [1k\]: uurtamo I'm dumbfounded
billywoods [8k\]: 2-second response
reprisal [4d?\]: i think tenuki could be interesting
ajahuang [6d\]: not bad
goren2 [3k\]: h2
Shipper [2k\]: h2 first would be bad timing it seems
uurtamo [-\]: daniblitz, it's okay, we are trying to determine if robots are our new masters.
uurtamo [-\]: it's important.
]
;W[bc]WL[4045.986]
;B[bb]BL[2363.932]C[ajahuang [6d\]: tromp seems played the best choice
RayTomes [2d\]: zen wavering as to which is more exciting
GriGriGo [2k\]: j5 cool
wizigo [2k\]: what good is a master that can't teach ?
blob [4k\]: what i dislike most about monte carlo is the weak tsumego reading
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen might want to A18 ko? :)
polonius [2d?\]: it's not that weak, they're pro level at 9x9
]
;W[ih]WL[4004.078]
;B[jh]BL[2354.315]C[threeoone [5k\]: fuegos move
blob [4k\]: i don't care about 9x9
RayTomes [2d\]: this is fun
uurtamo [-\]: 9x9 != 19x19
billywoods [8k\]: i'd love to see what black's plan is here
]
;W[ii]WL[3981.344]C[ajahuang [6d\]: Black has to invade again in the left side
RayTomes [2d\]: h10?!
daniblitz [1k\]: w played so many high moves
gogonuts [5d\]: must k11 imo
gopub [7k\]: h10
wizigo [2k\]: there is only one move...
Shipper [2k\]: h10 doesn't work
ndkrempel [4d?\]: h10 doesnt capture
oonicks [?\]: j11 basically just doesnt work
ajahuang [6d\]: K11 is the only move
RayTomes [2d\]: k11 makes w lleft side HUGE!
reprisal [4d?\]: huge to be invaded :)
goIngo [-\]: mf thinks: k11 with 49 % for black
wizigo [2k\]: a huge moyo so what
RayTomes [2d\]: huge territory
oonicks [?\]: so under 50
wizigo [2k\]: lol
reprisal [4d?\]: keep in mind b has most of the rest of the board
wuwei [4k\]: a huge moyo in gote
reprisal [4d?\]: he can afford to give w a lot
oonicks [?\]: so under 50% it starts playing moves that dont work:s ;)?
uurtamo [-\]: is that how board finances work, reprisal?
threeoone [5k\]: hard put to choose between center left and lower side after k11
goIngo [-\]: the problems start below 40 and above 60 %
sunabukuro [2d\]: K11 fo sho
daniblitz [1k\]: about how strong are the players?
uurtamo [-\]: 4d
GriGriGo [2k\]: k11, b still f14 and h15 to fight
Shipper [2k\]: around kgs 4d
gogonuts [5d\]: above 40 and below 60 the problems end :-)
suers [12k?\]: why not just sacrifice the two and connect at k11?
goIngo [-\]: ;-)
daniblitz [1k\]: Thanks, quite strong for a bot
]
;B[ji]BL[2204.102]C[shyin [11k\]: k11 sente, no? it threathens to net at least
Uberdude [2d?\]: now tenuki
suers [12k?\]: wow he listened
Uberdude [2d?\]: treat those as probe
RayTomes [2d\]: h10
polonius [2d?\]: tenuki
fluidistic [7k\]: H10 seems logical
threeoone [5k\]: hardest choice is what to play when behind human alike bots
wizigo [2k\]: w is left with bad shape
gogonuts [5d\]: k2 importan after all
goIngo [-\]: I mean, concentration ends outside of 40,60
Uberdude [2d?\]: h10 ugly shape, it is for yose
RayTomes [2d\]: k2 so big
blob [4k\]: h10 is necessary gote
oonicks [?\]: h 10 possible and rather horrible result but think will renuki
Uberdude [2d?\]: bottom group is bigger
oonicks [?\]: tenuki<
]
;W[hk]WL[3922.376]C[threeoone [5k\]: l3 i say
Uberdude [2d?\]: h10 is not neceesarry
RayTomes [2d\]: but w play h2 first?
ajahuang [6d\]: what?
uurtamo [-\]: interesting.
gogonuts [5d\]: wut?
wuwei [4k\]: ???
Liisa [2d\]: silly
Shipper [2k\]: doesn't even save the 2 stones
Uberdude [2d?\]: even bots misclick
RayTomes [2d\]: allows h10!
GriGriGo [2k\]: huh ?
polonius [2d?\]: what does this even
gogonuts [5d\]: no way
GriGriGo [2k\]: h10 still works
vegmandu [3d\]: ? strange?
Juippi [1d\]: maybe this kills lower side!
]
;B[hj]BL[2173.95]C[blob [4k\]: well, THIS was not necessary
uurtamo [-\]: w tells b: h12 is dead.
threeoone [5k\]: zen other opinion :-.) 
fluidistic [7k\]: wth
RayTomes [2d\]: j9 helps below?
threeoone [5k\]: straightforeward
Uberdude [2d?\]: cutting is a probe
hmiku [1k\]: Awesome
Uberdude [2d?\]: it got soft k11 answer
ajahuang [6d\]: White wants to K2 kill, I guess
wuwei [4k\]: this is an electro-brainfart
kunel [5k?\]: winning move
Uberdude [2d?\]: if b has more stones in h9 area later
kunel [5k?\]: haters gonna hate
ajahuang [6d\]: close Black's entry at the center
Uberdude [2d?\]: then b might not k11
peniiopaa: ZEN IS GOD
goren2 [3k\]: h5
Dingo2 [1k\]: zen should attacl bottom now
wizigo [2k\]: but K11 is not soft, only forced...
Uberdude [2d?\]: he might go outisde and eat all
uurtamo [-\]: playahs gotta play.
gogonuts [5d\]: hm, its true that h9 was sente
GriGriGo [2k\]: w j3 then k2 ?
RayTomes [2d\]: j9 j10 h2 ?
]
;W[ik]WL[3866.075]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: of course,  at this time k11 is the only move
GriGriGo [2k\]: j8 than k2
]
;B[ij]BL[2168.876]C[gogonuts [5d\]: if it does help at the bottom, its genius
Uberdude [2d?\]: that is why cutting is a good timing and then tenuki
ChaosArt [1d\]: did zen get better?
ajahuang [6d\]: now White might prefer K2 attack
blob [4k\]: h10 would have given a huge white left side....
fluidistic [7k\]: H2?
uurtamo [-\]: since when?
ChaosArt [1d\]: idk hes winning and i heard zen lost all his last games
gogonuts [5d\]: if not k2 now i will consider going to bed
Uberdude [2d?\]: h10 is awful shape, best to play bad shape in yose
uurtamo [-\]: chaosart, it's about strength.
]
;W[jr]WL[3821.568]C[uurtamo [-\]: zen is relatively strong.
icewater [1k\]: nice call aja
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen is my friend :)
Liisa [2d\]: now black need to just live with those, or make invasion to the left
wizigo [2k\]: now the real thing is happening
ChaosArt [1d\]: zen ~
ajahuang [6d\]: he heard me
oonicks [?\]: honte carlo in good condition:)
blob [4k\]: uberdude, shape is a mere superficial heuristic and often wrong
daniblitz [1k\]: I feel like tenuki would be more efficient
icewater [1k\]: i would so bet on aja if he ever plays zen in a serious match
Uberdude [2d?\]: blob, you shouldn't give h9 forcing moves
goren2 [3k\]: b deadish
Uberdude [2d?\]: that is not a heuristic 
sunabukuro [2d\]: Shape is ofter right
PonKiske [5k\]: Good work Blob
goIngo [-\]: g6 !?
threeoone [5k\]: e2 now 
GriGriGo [2k\]: I sometimes have 4d moves, followd by 10k ones :-)
PonKiske [5k\]: word...
gogonuts [5d\]: h9 could become the move of the game
Uberdude [2d?\]: that is simple reading
polonius [2d?\]: if b dies here, h9 was good
RayTomes [2d\]: Yes, Aja vs Zen in match would be great to see
reprisal [4d?\]: well
Uberdude [2d?\]: it makes j5 much stronger
reprisal [4d?\]: not necessarily
goren2 [3k\]: i guess g5
reprisal [4d?\]: b didn't have to walk into it
uurtamo [-\]: i get the feeling that if betting were available for this game, it would run up faster and higher than a 9d/9d match.
fluidistic [7k\]: me too girigiri, especially around the first 2 moves. I play like a 4d... nothing special
ajahuang [6d\]: E2 then G2
gogonuts [5d\]: i think your right reprisal
blob [4k\]: i guess i'll review afterwards
RayTomes [2d\]: X'FF' spectaters
threeoone [5k\]: we need betting ! :)
polonius [2d?\]: if KGS had betting i would be homeless
goIngo [-\]: then i will become bookmaker
Uberdude [2d?\]: blob, see my demo
reprisal [4d?\]: if h9 is good it is good only as a trick, i feel
daniblitz [1k\]: There should be a bet option for betting on next move
gogonuts [5d\]: better b k2, then invade the left after w cuts off the 2 stones
justdidit [1k?\]: we dont need betting
wuwei [4k\]: speak for yourself
reprisal [4d?\]: yeah if w spends two moves to cut off the stones
gogonuts [5d\]: calling it a trick is going to far
reprisal [4d?\]: that is okay with me
gogonuts [5d\]: legitimate strategy imo
Dingo2 [1k\]: yes, k2 was required
Shipper [2k\]: yeah, we don't need to make go players feel like race horses
uurtamo [-\]: does this mean H2?
Anthony22 [2k\]: so why is this game at the top of the list?
gogonuts [5d\]: just got more then it should have, thats not zens fault
daniblitz [1k\]: Because it's the most awesome
threeoone [5k\]: b plays j7 and is happy
uurtamo [-\]: daniblitz: :)
reprisal [4d?\]: i have trouble calling it a good move though
gogonuts [5d\]: so all the trolls can easily find it
peniiopaa: oh dear god tromp plays so slow
reprisal [4d?\]: dont' know what else to call it but trick
ajahuang [6d\]: how strong is tromp, KGS 4d?
cata [2k\]: can someone remind me who won the first game?
reprisal [4d?\]: probably kgs 4d
wuwei [4k\]: so, f6?
speedchase [6k\]: tromp won
]
;B[er]BL[1947.667]C[BlackLodge [3k\]: go in his games tab and see.......
GriGriGo [2k\]: around 4d, EGF ranking is strong
Liisa [2d\]: perhaps around kgs 3d
cata [2k\]: what a good defender of humanity!
suers [12k?\]: tromp has this one in the bag
ajahuang [6d\]: I feel 3d-4d from this game
uurtamo [-\]: in... the bag?
reprisal [4d?\]: i think he's stronger than i am, and i am strongish 3d
]
;W[dr]WL[3779.411]C[gogonuts [5d\]: thats not a very sturdy bag
uurtamo [-\]: you ever heard of the Tromp-Taylor rules? dude knows his yose.
suers [12k?\]: a bag none the less
RayTomes [2d\]: Tromp-Taylor used my rules as starting point
ajahuang [6d\]: really
RayTomes [2d\]: yes
wizigo [2k\]: w is starting to cash in
RayTomes [2d\]: NZ rules
uurtamo [-\]: the not-as-well-known RayTomes rules.
]
;B[ep]BL[1882.314]C[ChaosArt [1d\]: wat are these rules your speak of
gogonuts [5d\]: just living somehow is tough - living and also invading the left seems out of the question
RayTomes [2d\]: NZ rules are well known, just not named after me
reprisal [4d?\]: ray wrote NZ rules IIRC
]
;W[dq]WL[3763.47]C[Liisa [2d\]: i always play NZ rules.
uurtamo [-\]: just saying that if you are that technical about rules, yose is your bag.
threeoone [5k\]: im suspicious what zen is using its time for since e4 is the only move
reprisal [4d?\]: i would play NZ except for no .5 komi, i hate ties
ChaosArt [1d\]: Rayfrost?
RayTomes [2d\]: not Rayfrost, no
]
;B[eo]BL[1848.173]C[ajahuang [6d\]: E5, then F6 could live
ajahuang [6d\]: but....
ChaosArt [1d\]: where is rayfrost
uurtamo [-\]: do not like e5.
]
;W[do]WL[3741]C[gogonuts [5d\]: yes its painful
billywoods [8k\]: why not?
ajahuang [6d\]: white is really far ahead
uurtamo [-\]: because you don't push into a 1-liberty situation if you can help it.
fotland [?\]: can black even live here?
]
;B[fn]BL[1817.489]C[RayTomes [2d\]: W left side is huge - even tho W gave h12 back to B
Shipper [2k\]: yeah this series is 1-1 unless zen goes into derp mode again
billywoods [8k\]: e5 looks good to me :S
vegmandu [3d\]: I dont see where this was better than c3 Is it?
]
;W[em]WL[3725.125]C[wizigo [2k\]: it's emergency move
reprisal [4d?\]: ehhh zen losing from here is not unlikely at all
ajahuang [6d\]: H6
ajahuang [6d\]: G2
reprisal [4d?\]: just have to start a medium sized ko :)
goIngo [-\]: manyfaces thinks 50%
uurtamo [-\]: wow. that's tight at move 86
goIngo [-\]: 50 % for black
uurtamo [-\]: lol
gogonuts [5d\]: really
reprisal [4d?\]: 50% for white too?
Bluefinger [?\]: E14
reprisal [4d?\]: what are the odds!
Wobble [3k\]: and what would whites chances be?
goIngo [-\]: no, it is a difference
uurtamo [-\]: lol
gogonuts [5d\]: bots live in their own world :-)
goIngo [-\]: mc is always optimistic
RayTomes [2d\]: once B settled, P3 almost sente for B
Uberdude [2d?\]: w r2 soon?
goIngo [-\]: given the side to play more percent
threeoone [5k\]: fuego b 48% adds a move 
uurtamo [-\]: reprisal, you kill me.
uurtamo [-\]: still laughing.
]
;B[go]BL[1729.439]C[billywoods [8k\]: buh
threeoone [5k\]: hmm why not g6 ?
wuwei [4k\]: ok, getting rid of this lump, finally
Shipper [2k\]: life in gote...the definition of bittersweet
RayTomes [2d\]: yes folks its 50:52  ;-)
justdidit [1k?\]: P3 now
ajahuang [6d\]: P3
]
;W[gr]WL[3683.537]C[gogonuts [5d\]: soon :-)
billywoods [8k\]: wah?
ajahuang [6d\]: not alive yet
gogonuts [5d\]: a little more torture
goIngo [-\]: yes, 50:52 sounds ok
billywoods [8k\]: *screams uncontrollably*
speedchase [6k\]: h6 lives?
uurtamo [-\]: +/-
Uberdude [2d?\]: it's liek vote counting in russia
uurtamo [-\]: add up poll percentages, you get the same effect.
blob [4k\]: h6?
Wobble [3k\]: that putin wins?
uurtamo [-\]: +/-100%
threeoone [5k\]: b alive a s is
fluidistic [7k\]: I hope zen wins this game, this would make the series more interesting
oonicks [?\]: k7
icewater [1k\]: i like h6
RayTomes [2d\]: well 102% turnout means everyone kean to vote!
Shipper [2k\]: white create fake eye if b h6
goIngo [-\]: yes, in monte carlo world all are willing ;-)
MaxDWolf [4k?\]: h6 g3 ?
]
;B[gq]BL[1625.606]C[Nyorai [19k\]: This is game two out of ten right?
ajahuang [6d\]: G6
Ootakamoku [3d\]: g3 does not compute.
uurtamo [-\]: g6 i suppose
speedchase [6k\]: its two of five
Wobble [3k\]: two out of 5 i think
Nyorai [19k\]: ok
icewater [1k\]: now feels like black only has one eye
Ootakamoku [3d\]: h6 looked like obvious move instead of g3
uurtamo [-\]: two out of best of five.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: with h6 b gets aji to move out
RayTomes [2d\]: B has not 2 eyes yet
wizigo [2k\]: b is still alive
threeoone [5k\]: g6 ?
blob [4k\]: h6 g3 g4  was life afais
speedchase [6k\]: now Im confused
goIngo [-\]: zen should like this type of position
]
;W[ob]WL[3624.749]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: b is alive or connect
uurtamo [-\]: whaaa
]
;B[nb]BL[1619.028]C[uurtamo [-\]: ?
threeoone [5k\]: g3 was very bad i think
Rochedale [7k\]: ?
gogonuts [5d\]: also extremly big
Uberdude [2d?\]: but w moves around l8 are sente
rkda [5k\]: b lives...not killable any more
wuwei [4k\]: g3 was very safe
wizigo [2k\]: it is necessary and sufficient
blob [4k\]: anyway, this development just strengthens my suspicion that w not playing h10 gave a fairly easy win away
wizigo [2k\]: w small lead
]
;W[nl]WL[3578.729]C[Liisa [2d\]: black has still big invasion in the left
speedchase [6k\]: w dead in the corner
speedchase [6k\]: right?
Uberdude [2d?\]: no
icewater [1k\]: white can live if he wants
RayTomes [2d\]: prepare for W g6?
gogonuts [5d\]: not dead
Uberdude [2d?\]: q18 o17 s18 
goIngo [-\]: nice tenuki
uurtamo [-\]: i wouldn't call any of this easy.
reprisal [4d?\]: this sure seems slow unless it's kill threat
wuwei [4k\]: p9
gogonuts [5d\]: bots can be so funny
ajahuang [6d\]: P3 is maybe 15 points
Shipper [2k\]: if w g6, b h6 w g7 b j7
Uberdude [2d?\]: aims at r7 or something?
gogonuts [5d\]: the way they like to avoid gote at the last moment
RayTomes [2d\]: when they jump about I take it that the areas are about equally valuable
gogonuts [5d\]: even if it makes no sense
reprisal [4d?\]: this area doesnt seem very valuable to me
uurtamo [-\]: they're taking value from distributions that favor them.
Alife361 [?\]: c10
oonicks [?\]: r8 is as big as the corner?
threeoone [5k\]: b has to get a plan to deal with the left side
Persians [2k\]: d12
gogonuts [5d\]: c12 is the most b can go for on the left
RayTomes [2d\]: I like B d12 as start on left
reprisal [4d?\]: c12 is a lot :)
uurtamo [-\]: and that's pretty far!
blixa [2k\]: c10?
vegmandu [3d\]: b has to be sure he doesn't die after bg6
threeoone [5k\]: c10 maybe ?
vegmandu [3d\]: w g6
uurtamo [-\]: c10 is ridiculous.
PonKiske [5k\]: but fun
Persians [2k\]: d12 get sente, then o19
wizigo [2k\]: dying is so much fun
Persians [2k\]: o18
blob [4k\]: d12 > c10
goIngo [-\]: not for the dier ;-)
threeoone [5k\]: ok w f7 always sente so i get the point
uurtamo [-\]: b is defending humanity against the cylons, man.
uurtamo [-\]: no time for joking.
]
;B[pk]BL[1432.603]C[PonKiske [5k\]: lol
Shipper [2k\]: solid
ajahuang [6d\]: not bad
uurtamo [-\]: tight.
Uberdude [2d?\]: uh oh
Uberdude [2d?\]: o9 o10 m9 
oonicks [?\]: p14 style
uurtamo [-\]: uh oh what?
Uberdude [2d?\]: if b answer
Uberdude [2d?\]: g6
threeoone [5k\]: there must be stronger ones to defend humanity :) (joking)
Uberdude [2d?\]: w cut off escape in sente
blob [4k\]: e12
Persians [2k\]: look like b will win
goIngo [-\]: L8
]
;W[lk]WL[3522.913]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: see =)
uurtamo [-\]: woah, uberdude, skipped two moves.
Liisa [2d\]: now tenuki
]
;B[lj]BL[1413.789]C[lepore [1d\]: w getting ready to g6?
vegmandu [3d\]: wow
RayTomes [2d\]: B must be careful as G6 is looming
Uberdude [2d?\]: b is going to die if he is not careful
vegmandu [3d\]:  b feeling confident
Liisa [2d\]: c10 e.g.
Shipper [2k\]: I still don't believe g6 works
Uberdude [2d?\]: he must surely realise what w's plan is
Shipper [2k\]: as far as killing goes
uurtamo [-\]: shipper, where is b's other eye?
oonicks [?\]: w thinking over n10
Uberdude [2d?\]: g6 h6 g7 j7 k6 j6 h4 
wizigo [2k\]: do you realize b can H2
]
;W[oq]WL[3484.844]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: h2 f2 
Uberdude [2d?\]: and ?
lepore [1d\]: neither does b apparently
RayTomes [2d\]: B h2, W f2 and what?
goIngo [-\]: p3, finally
justdidit [1k?\]: finally
billywoods [8k\]: p3??
Persians [2k\]: f7
miasma [6k?\]: time for h6
reprisal [4d?\]: who cares, h2 is sente, it must be good
Liisa [2d\]: C10 lives in big sente. and then defend F2 and win the game
ajahuang [6d\]: R2 is over 15 points
ajahuang [6d\]: maybe 25
ilovego123 [3d\]: What exactly is computer go? are players computers?
uurtamo [-\]: reprisal, now. working that sente hobby horse.
vegmandu [3d\]: can c12 live or connect
threeoone [5k\]: fuego b16 52%
Shipper [2k\]: after b h6 and j7 after w g6, black can either connect or make 2nd eye with h4
justdidit [1k?\]: R2 so huge lol
lepore [1d\]: w looks good even id doesn't kill
blob [4k\]: Uberdude: g6 h6 g7 j7 j6 is better imho
blixa [2k\]: no, the players just make robot voices
reprisal [4d?\]: okay uurt, i stop with that line then :)
reprisal [4d?\]: blixa>>nice
uurtamo [-\]: no, i like it. i haven't heard it before, and it makes me think twice about sente.
ilovego123 [3d\]: lol
]
;B[dh]BL[1286.089]C[uurtamo [-\]: honestly, i'm not used to thinking of gote as valuable until yose.
Uberdude [2d?\]: j6 is self atari
RayTomes [2d\]: perhaps zen sees life of r17 and g5 as miai ???
oonicks [?\]: b could have just waited
blob [4k\]: no?
reprisal [4d?\]: its a pet rant of mine, the worship of sente
blob [4k\]: sorry, meseed up
]
;W[ch]WL[3439.611]C[polonius [2d?\]: sente claus
Persians [2k\]: sente .c10 next
blob [4k\]: *messed
uurtamo [-\]: yes, i think that for long sente sequences it makes sense, but clearly a single sente move could just be to remove a ko threat.
]
;B[cg]BL[1265.875]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: i once had some stones that were in a ladder that was good for me
Uberdude [2d?\]: but instead of running away from atari
Persians [2k\]: q18, b  not bad
Uberdude [2d?\]: i played a ladder breaker
Uberdude [2d?\]: it was sente, he had to capture my stones!
RayTomes [2d\]: maybe B f15 come into play here??
billywoods [8k\]: oh uberdude, what are you like, eh?
]
;W[ci]WL[3397.349]C[threeoone [5k\]: playing this way makes me think zen really has a18 "up his sleeves"
goIngo [-\]: 52% for white, to mf
icewater [1k\]: e13
ikewa [7k\]: n5?
Persians [2k\]: q18
Uberdude [2d?\]: making up examples is what
uurtamo [-\]: i wonder if the majority of playouts call G5 dead.
wuwei [4k\]: e13
RayTomes [2d\]: e13 allows b13 , so d13 better?
Uberdude [2d?\]: though i did something almost that bad at london rengo
Persians [2k\]: b have h18, cornor safe
Uberdude [2d?\]: sure d13 over e13
vegmandu [3d\]: a18 c18 d19 h18 j18 h19
]
;B[dg]BL[1182.369]C[goIngo [-\]: d13 too slow
Liisa [2d\]: no
RayTomes [2d\]: w must eliminate f15 
justdidit [1k?\]: d13 has some following moves
Liisa [2d\]: there is f16
uurtamo [-\]: d13 is great.
]
;W[be]WL[3357.132]C[fotland [?\]: my latest experimentalk mfgo says 60%
blob [4k\]: i think g3 should have been h6 (which would've made eyes at f5 and h5), now b looks killable there
fotland [?\]: for zen
Persians [2k\]: gote
uurtamo [-\]: fotland: uh oh.
fotland [?\]: and it plays g6
wuwei [4k\]: b is 200% alive everywhere
RayTomes [2d\]: alive how after g6?
]
;B[hb]BL[1124.177]C[goIngo [-\]: david, on which machne is it running now?
threeoone [5k\]: fighting spirit calls for b b13 ... :)
reprisal [4d?\]: well in rengo you just blame your partner for not following your plan
uurtamo [-\]: hey, f15 is kind've funny.
oonicks [?\]: this maybe loosing move oow i meant b15
reprisal [4d?\]: or if you are the weaker player you just shrug and look sheepish
PonKiske [5k\]: Save Corner!
Shipper [2k\]: the fact that k9 is still open makes g6 uneffective
Uberdude [2d?\]: agree blob
Ootakamoku [3d\]: q18 kinda big?
]
;W[ib]WL[3318.046]C[uurtamo [-\]: f15 is around one move away from being important.
Persians [2k\]: w q18 sente
fotland [?\]: Lateley is has been using one thread of an i7-2600 (3.4 ghz)
ajahuang [6d\]: Q17
Uberdude [2d?\]: reprisal, i tohught i was following the others plan
goIngo [-\]: thx
Ootakamoku [3d\]: persians, w has to add a move in the corner or it dies again
ajahuang [6d\]: then fight the ko
Uberdude [2d?\]: so i played a move i knew was bad
fotland [?\]: multithreading is a little broken :(
fotland [?\]: fixing it now for tonights kgs tournament
fluidistic [7k\]: hey Hideki, what is zen winning rate currently?
reprisal [4d?\]: see that logic is not in one of my two simple tracks
reprisal [4d?\]: clearly it is wrong
uurtamo [-\]: nice, reprisal.
ajahuang [6d\]: G17, then fight the ko
Persians [2k\]: b d13 misread in yose
gghideki [3k?\]: 55%
reprisal [4d?\]: fighting ko can't be bad against zen :)
goIngo [-\]: thx hideki
fluidistic [7k\]: ok thanks a lot
signin [7k\]: g16?
uurtamo [-\]: fighting two kos perhaps slightly better against zen.
]
;B[hd]BL[1012.73]C[Persians [2k\]: h16 bad
threeoone [5k\]: hush 
lepore [1d\]: getting fancy may kill b
billywoods [8k\]: *starts wailing again*
fluidistic [7k\]: hmm why bad¡?
]
;W[id]WL[3281.715]C[wizigo [2k\]: why not
]
;B[gc]BL[995.642]
;W[ic]WL[3264.544]C[fluidistic [7k\]: zen chose no ko
uurtamo [-\]: w needs to be careful here.
Uberdude [2d?\]: have you changed anything for zen since yesterday?
Persians [2k\]: i thin b win
ajahuang [6d\]: great sequence, now it is closer
billywoods [8k\]: is black alive now?
goocheen [1d\]: f15
RayTomes [2d\]: use if B does not potentially bad becaih19  then W can start a ko in corner
oonicks [?\]: would a human alos need to be that carefull?
Liisa [2d\]: B13 should be now or later black's sente
Ootakamoku [3d\]: r2 or q18?
Persians [2k\]: q18?
uurtamo [-\]: a human might have freaked out about f15 well before now.
reprisal [4d?\]: r2 bigger i guess
Uberdude [2d?\]: f15 might be fun
Persians [2k\]: no, q18 bigger
threeoone [5k\]: b14
blob [4k\]: zen should start reading better now that it has fewer interesting moves to check
RayTomes [2d\]: f15 no longer important as w has b13 now
Persians [2k\]: r2 sente 12 points
uurtamo [-\]: raytomes, thanks, didn't see that.
fluidistic [7k\]: indeed blob
Persians [2k\]: W r2 senter 12 points
reprisal [4d?\]: 12 miai sure sounds bigger than q18
oonicks [?\]: :)
Persians [2k\]: q18 bigger
]
;B[ia]BL[877.105]C[reprisal [4d?\]: your logic is unconvincing :)
billywoods [8k\]: huh
Persians [2k\]: more 25 points
Liisa [2d\]: this was slow
Uberdude [2d?\]: b f15 aims to make  g14 or b15 group miai
Liisa [2d\]: b13 was way better
Persians [2k\]: Q18 more 25 points
uurtamo [-\]: don't like j19 right now.
reprisal [4d?\]: i don tthink so
grshpr [16k?\]: who won last night?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: j19 so has to be wrong
]
;W[fe]WL[3217.973]C[threeoone [5k\]: g6 still a weak spot
Ootakamoku [3d\]: wow..
Liisa [2d\]: R2 and Q18 are also huge yose moves
ajahuang [6d\]: oh this is small
reprisal [4d?\]: wow
Ootakamoku [3d\]: f15 looks like a thank you move
RayTomes [2d\]: k18!
fluidistic [7k\]: zen thinks he's too ahead?
reprisal [4d?\]: zen yose is sucky apparently
Uberdude [2d?\]: of course if w wants to spend a move, b13 is much better
reprisal [4d?\]: unless its a locked game, but it seems early for that
gogonuts [5d\]: getting defensive, not a good sign for b
goocheen [1d\]: r2
Liisa [2d\]: yes, Zen is really bad in yose.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: well, b just lost b13 sente
reprisal [4d?\]: does zen lock this early in the game?
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen aims for F12
uurtamo [-\]: zen's yose rocks the house if it's late yose.
uurtamo [-\]: sadly, it's not.
goIngo [-\]: many faces liked f15 as well
fluidistic [7k\]: Bothater36 says Zen is very good in yose...
blob [4k\]: damn it zen, use your 53 minutes to do something worthwile (like killing b)
]
;B[pb]BL[814.472]C[uurtamo [-\]: looks like w is going down hard now.
RayTomes [2d\]: g6 to also kill a grop
]
;W[qr]WL[3198.88]C[ajahuang [6d\]: I think R2 is bigger
gogonuts [5d\]: miai with r2
Ootakamoku [3d\]: hane! for ko :)
reprisal [4d?\]: seems very unlikely they would be miai
gogonuts [5d\]: with 2 such large moves, you can just play a third point :-)
reprisal [4d?\]: but that is my spirit towards endgame :)
Ootakamoku [3d\]: gogo, w r2 more difficult to ignore
reprisal [4d?\]: i mean, what else are you gonna do, count it?
oonicks [?\]: w + o.5 optimistically
uurtamo [-\]: oonicks, what is that, anyway?
]
;B[rp]BL[753.333]C[odnihs [-\]: what?
goocheen [1d\]: f2
goIngo [-\]: oooo, white above 60% now
icewater [1k\]: f2 gote
RayTomes [2d\]: B wants sente, or good corner enclosure
ajahuang [6d\]: F12
ketchup [-\]: might as well s3..
ajahuang [6d\]: E12?
fluidistic [7k\]: Zen is less optimistic than fuego for w
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ray, s4 is proper
]
;W[rq]WL[3164.878]
;B[qp]BL[749.946]C[grooviest [4k\]: 60% what?
gogonuts [5d\]: does f15 create sinister options?
fluidistic [7k\]: 60% of fuego's simulated games ended in a win for w
goIngo [-\]: winning rate in mc playouts
icewater [1k\]: zen win percentage according to many faces i think
ketchup [-\]: e10 for black next?
kill [-\]: f2
]
;W[pm]WL[3130.498]C[fluidistic [7k\]: but zen is less optimistic
Persians [2k\]: e12  not bad
]
;B[qm]BL[743.034]C[justdidit [1k?\]: w going back to attack now?
threeoone [5k\]: its f13 aja
uurtamo [-\]: zen's playing tighter now.
grooviest [4k\]: pessimistic robot? how cute
Ootakamoku [3d\]: h6 incomming
Heskey [25k\]: I Going Crazy ;x
blob [4k\]: g6.... when are you going to play it, zen?
ketchup [-\]: not k6?
]
;W[pl]WL[3095.206]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: k6 is highly inefficient
]
;B[ql]BL[739.844]C[RayTomes [2d\]: h6 no good, must be g6
kill [-\]: r2 bigger than q18?
RayTomes [2d\]: oh, you mean for B?
uurtamo [-\]: i feel zen about to start taking good yose points.
qQQp [-\]: Strong kibitzer should be able to count at this stage. any opinions
]
;W[fj]WL[3069.097]C[oonicks [?\]: g6 nice thx
gogonuts [5d\]: threatens to cut
blob [4k\]: g6 was like the topic a half hour ago...
grooviest [4k\]: nice move
icewater [1k\]: dual threat somehow?
RayTomes [2d\]: g6 is still on
justdidit [1k?\]: e10 nice
oonicks [?\]: well h6 was now
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b rly needs to add a mvoe to j4 now
gogonuts [5d\]: i just had f10 smiling at me, before zen played it :-)
uurtamo [-\]: actually threatens to cut.
grooviest [4k\]: shape, lots of points, and threat
Persians [2k\]: f10 ?..........
wuwei [4k\]: I have an opinion, but I choose not to share it right now
goocheen [1d\]: e11
Ootakamoku [3d\]: this is sente tho
apetresc [1d?\]: lol
threeoone [5k\]: B winrate descended from 0.52 to 0.44 in fuegos op
uurtamo [-\]: ;)
Ootakamoku [3d\]: g11 h11 f12 and d12 gone
threeoone [5k\]: last few moves
RayTomes [2d\]: e11?
goIngo [-\]: +0.5 or +1.54 for white, thinks mf
goIngo [-\]: +1.5 sorry
uurtamo [-\]: f10 is nontrivial.
ajahuang [6d\]: E11 should be played without thinking :)
]
;B[ei]BL[652.967]C[oonicks [?\]: but h6 to small now zen can count around 3 4 ok
goIngo [-\]: 62 % for white
wuwei [4k\]: e11 is the smallest, slowest move ever. There, I said it
Persians [2k\]: sweet s2
goocheen [1d\]: g6
ajahuang [6d\]: then B13 
]
;W[fr]WL[3021.788]C[gogonuts [5d\]: wuwei, we cant see that
uurtamo [-\]: e11 is totally important, yes.
goIngo [-\]: 62 % for g6, says mf
RayTomes [2d\]: e11 not small - saves 20+ points
gogonuts [5d\]: we just cant follow you into your higher state
ajahuang [6d\]: W can B13
oonicks [?\]: it was good it played s2 it was just getting desperate:)
blob [4k\]: w fucked it up now :(
goocheen [1d\]: b13
uurtamo [-\]: Higher State
threeoone [5k\]: b had real miss when he played g5 g6 was the move
Ootakamoku [3d\]: f2 is reverse sente
wuwei [4k\]: blob...
icewater [1k\]: white not interested in killing
odnihs [-\]: white interested in winning
icewater [1k\]: just taking a ton of surrounding points
Capella [-\]: he's gone, wuwei
odnihs [-\]: i hope
ajahuang [6d\]: now b13 is big
reprisal [4d?\]: no, zen is interested in killing
reprisal [4d?\]: always
]
;B[bh]BL[588.448]C[grooviest [4k\]: ???
uurtamo [-\]: except when all playouts read winning.
ajahuang [6d\]: should b13, it has a10 afterwards
Persians [2k\]: f2 reverse 7 points, small
Persians [2k\]: b 12 misread
Shipper [2k\]: my extremely accurate counting tells me that b is ahead by something
uurtamo [-\]: small compared with what?
uurtamo [-\]: i think zen's yose right now is tight.
]
;W[ja]WL[2976.585]C[reprisal [4d?\]: b12 i guess
]
;B[ha]BL[579.614]C[reprisal [4d?\]: but i dunno
reprisal [4d?\]: it probably counts better than me at this point
Persians [2k\]: b 13 sente bigger than f2
awesome [5k\]: my kind of counting doesn't work right now
grooviest [4k\]: f7?
]
;W[gn]WL[2943.497]C[RayTomes [2d\]: yay!
uurtamo [-\]: BAM.
wuwei [4k\]: ha!
polonius [2d?\]: finally
Persians [2k\]: b13 also reverse yose
grooviest [4k\]: or just g6
PonKiske [5k\]: YES
threeoone [5k\]: at least
fluidistic [7k\]: lawl!!!!!
]
;B[hn]BL[567.225]C[goocheen [1d\]: yes
gogonuts [5d\]: shipper, can that something be a negative number?
qQQp [-\]: doesn't work but clarifies
grooviest [4k\]: about time
RayTomes [2d\]: B has a plan
fluidistic [7k\]: that game is interesting
Ootakamoku [3d\]: w didnt attack properly, just taking points
BobWhoosta [1k\]: What does black do here?
reprisal [4d?\]: lives, presumably
awesome [5k\]: how does this work at all?
]
;W[gm]WL[2916.549]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: kill sequence would have been h6 instead of g6?
billywoods [8k\]: threatens to make miai of h4 and connecting, bob?
miasma [6k?\]: j7
fluidistic [7k\]: zen plays so fast it's amazing
ajahuang [6d\]: are you sure black can live?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Difficult at best...
Shipper [2k\]: k7 b lives
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I think black is dead.
Shipper [2k\]: *k7
RayTomes [2d\]: W h4 next
Shipper [2k\]: *j7 shees
threeoone [5k\]: b is almost dead
reprisal [4d?\]: no, i never read if o8 affected L/D status
]
;B[im]BL[531.424]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: aja, atleast it looks easier for b to live with this, compared to the w h6 attack
uurtamo [-\]: see if w plays h4
goren2 [3k\]: k6
reprisal [4d?\]: but both players have been assuming it lives so i was too :)
wuwei [4k\]: if h4, it'll be fun
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Now just K6...
ndkrempel [4d?\]: w H6 woudl let b live immediately
RayTomes [2d\]: k6 or h4?
hanxu1981 [4k\]: k6 j6 h4
]
;W[jn]WL[2892.135]
;B[in]BL[527.53]C[billywoods [8k\]: oooooh
fluidistic [7k\]: b lives right?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: I felt white was crazy to tenuki this forever ago..
lepore [1d\]: no
Persians [2k\]: bot lose
grooviest [4k\]: oh dear
threeoone [5k\]: w crosscut
awesome [5k\]: h4 looks like resign
RayTomes [2d\]: trouble is that bot just tries to win, not to humiliate
]
;W[hp]WL[2852.289]C[threeoone [5k\]: oh
uurtamo [-\]: doh.
grooviest [4k\]: oh my
fluidistic [7k\]: K8?
uurtamo [-\]: humiliation switch... flipped.
ajahuang [6d\]: F2 was also preventing Black's L3
Persians [2k\]: lose and want kill
gogonuts [5d\]: oh right
gogonuts [5d\]: f2 was a poison dart
Dowon [-\]: had for black
uurtamo [-\]: just sick to my stomach now.
goren2 [3k\]: k9
goIngo [-\]: mf has problems to read this
uurtamo [-\]: or k8?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Well, now I think black might be able to make miai of K6 capture and getting out...
goocheen [1d\]: if k9,white k8
oonicks [?\]: cut where you can cut
RayTomes [2d\]: k8 and k9 miai
threeoone [5k\]: doesnt work boob
lepore [1d\]: b gonna enter byoyomi soon
uurtamo [-\]: i just feel ill.
billywoods [8k\]: cannot read -.-
polonius [2d?\]: that's why zen waited so long to play this, so b doesn't have too much time to think
signin [7k\]: l9?
PonKiske [5k\]: That would be an impressive AI
uurtamo [-\]: L9 bad, i think, signin
kill [-\]: b alive
reprisal [4d?\]: 6 minutes should be enough time to think it out
oonicks [?\]: what b thinking?;)
Ootakamoku [3d\]: k9 k8 j8 k7 g9 h8 f7 
uurtamo [-\]: w doesn't care about M9 stone.
shyin [11k\]: byo yomi is long anyway
gogonuts [5d\]: b is thinking "damn"
shyin [11k\]: 10 min
Yuniba [4k\]: K5?
uurtamo [-\]: b is changing diapers.
threeoone [5k\]: m9 m10 : b got forced
grooviest [4k\]: b is thinking "oopsies"
Persians [2k\]: k7 misread
lepore [1d\]: w + time
cyryts [2k\]: now we're all mind readers
uurtamo [-\]: i feel like k8 or death.
odnihs [-\]: b is using the bathroom
Persians [2k\]: b  is not easy to conneect
Kanin [-\]: uh oh
goIngo [-\]: k8 is what manyfaces prefers
Monocle [3k\]: f7 might help, no?
uurtamo [-\]: perhaps k5 first but i can't see why.
Kanin [-\]: what's going on here?
RayTomes [2d\]: B is trying not to die Kanin
gogonuts [5d\]: if b can only save his groupo by letting w break into the b territory its also curtains
Ootakamoku [3d\]: k9 k8 j8 h8 k7 l8 l7 m8 m7 n8 k5 l6 l5 m6 m4 l3 n6 
threeoone [5k\]: vital point imho is b l8 but
RayTomes [2d\]: even if B live, W may be a few points up
uurtamo [-\]: no, just k8. k5 first not helpful.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: k9 k8 j8 h8 k7 l8 l7 m8 m7 n8 k5 l6 l5 m6 m4 l3 n6 and k9 k8 j8 k7 g9 h8 f7 should provide unconditinal life, unless Im missing something
kill [-\]: k9
PonKiske [5k\]: lol
]
;B[kl]BL[227.352]C[threeoone [5k\]: oh lol
RayTomes [2d\]: trick move
Kanin [-\]: uh oh
odnihs [-\]: he's gone crazy
RayTomes [2d\]: won't work on bot
fluidistic [7k\]: zen will reply in 1 s
awesome [5k\]: lol trick a computer
]
;W[jm]WL[2828.442]C[odnihs [-\]: gg
fluidistic [7k\]: lmao
threeoone [5k\]: its atari when b pushes out so doesnt work
ajahuang [6d\]: b is dead
fluidistic [7k\]: gg zen...
goIngo [-\]: k7 66 % by mf
Kanin [-\]: no
Kanin [-\]: alive
Persians [2k\]: it dead
ajahuang [6d\]: L5 is White's atari
hanxu1981 [4k\]: dead
icewater [1k\]: shortage of liberties on J5 group coming soon
fluidistic [7k\]: what is win % Hideki? please
kill [-\]: b stupid
uurtamo [-\]: i feel sick and want to cry.
gghideki [3k?\]: 70%
Kanin [-\]: ah, dead
uurtamo [-\]: kill: don't say shit like that.
fluidistic [7k\]: thank you
Kanin [-\]: :(
goIngo [-\]: thx
fluidistic [7k\]: I'm 70% sure w wins
]
;B[jl]BL[175.618]C[kill [-\]: b stupid move
Yuniba [4k\]: onry 3min
ajahuang [6d\]: White's L5 is atari
hanxu1981 [4k\]: j8
Persians [2k\]: B dead
]
;W[il]WL[2816.448]C[ajahuang [6d\]: tromp missed that
icewater [1k\]: yeah
fluidistic [7k\]: well nice. makes the series more interesting
Anthony22 [2k\]: 10min byo
ajahuang [6d\]: game over
fluidistic [7k\]: 1 to 1 :)
grooviest [4k\]: b didn't see atari
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Good Game.
gogonuts [5d\]: yes, done
RayTomes [2d\]: dead
awesome [5k\]: b must run to k3
goocheen [1d\]: dead
vegmandu [3d\]: oh well so whens the next game?
gogonuts [5d\]: no need to play another move
polonius [2d?\]: tomorrow
Uberdude [2d?\]: told you o8 was gonna be sneaky sente
uurtamo [-\]: 5pm PST.
]
;B[gd]BL[137.762]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: zen is good at thos
fluidistic [7k\]: lol look at the bot's time taken, sounds like a bad joke :P
Uberdude [2d?\]: leaning attacks
]
;W[he]WL[2804.286]C[threeoone [5k\]: the only thing is why did zen wait so long to play g6 ?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: g16, bot style, lets play sentes away before resign
ndkrempel [4d?\]: F2 was required to kill
uurtamo [-\]: zen waited until he needed it.
ajahuang [6d\]: F2 was preparing for g6
goIngo [-\]: rolling home
fluidistic [7k\]: because zen was slightly leading anyway
polonius [2d?\]: gg zen
fluidistic [7k\]: g6 not needed
gogonuts [5d\]: f2 was a really sneaky and profitable kill threat
kill [-\]: b still could have lived
RayTomes [2d\]: yes, f2 prevents L3 by B from being effective
hokohoko [5k\]: b h9 works?
supperman [1k\]: L18
neophyte [5k\]: l8 mistake?
grooviest [4k\]: i don't see what L3 does or did
odnihs [-\]: this would be the first official robot win against tromp?
gogonuts [5d\]: yes
hokohoko [5k\]: *g9
polonius [2d?\]: yes
ndkrempel [4d?\]: its in a variation where black pushes out at K5 grooviest
RayTomes [2d\]: L8 made sure B dead, but was likely already dead
ndkrempel [4d?\]: not like how it played here
goIngo [-\]: in sparring zen won once in august 2010
gogonuts [5d\]: he had a clean slate against mf
odnihs [-\]: oh
signin [7k\]: l3
gogonuts [5d\]: sparring doesnt count
grooviest [4k\]: thx
grooviest [4k\]: i getcha
RayTomes [2d\]: tromp in byo-yomi now ...
]
;B[bf]BL[31.022]C[fluidistic [7k\]: byo yomi is 10 minutes?
odnihs [-\]: a18
PonKiske [5k\]: Black want to kill K15
polonius [2d?\]: zen won't die
RayTomes [2d\]: 10 mins per 25 moves
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b going to try to kill the whole dragon
]
;W[mb]WL[2776.16]C[polonius [2d?\]: nice
gogonuts [5d\]: not possible, but it would be enough :-)
polonius [2d?\]: zen is like, chill dude
]
;B[ej]BL[4.678]C[goIngo [-\]: gzen going for small margin, now?
fluidistic [7k\]: nah
Ootakamoku [3d\]: difficult to go for small margin with g3 dead
polonius [2d?\]: that would be hard :)
odnihs [-\]: zen up by plenty, will probably play safe now
]
;W[dk]WL[2744.015]C[RayTomes [2d\]: zen is not as annoying as ayabot, which really tries to wion by 0.5
uurtamo [-\]: i mean, look at d9.
fluidistic [7k\]: lol yes raytomes
gogonuts [5d\]: safety mode, sure, but that makes sense
RayTomes [2d\]: look at my recent games - it has 7 0.5 piunt wins against me
Persians [2k\]: b need resign
]
;B[ak]BL[561.483]OB[24]C[gogonuts [5d\]: wut?
peniiopaa: why is b still playing
uurtamo [-\]: i appreciate black's need to work it out for a bit.
PonKiske [5k\]: lol
uurtamo [-\]: peniiopaa, it's not like w will get offended.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: well, bots do often fail horribly against monkey jumps
peniiopaa: i am offended
RayTomes [2d\]: true
]
;W[bl]WL[2706.01]C[uurtamo [-\]: yes, i've only once ever seen a bot *play* a monkey jump.
ajahuang [6d\]: W is ahead 20 points
RayTomes [2d\]: yes
uurtamo [-\]: peniiopaa, sure, but you are not in the game.
polonius [2d?\]: zen is unlikely to screw up anything now
]
;B[al]BL[545.92]OB[23]C[threeoone [5k\]: its of no interest since b dead
awesome [5k\]: gnugo often plays monkeys
fluidistic [7k\]: this game is rated :)
Kanin [-\]: zen can screw up in the end game, it happens
uurtamo [-\]: gnugo plays monkeys, but gnugo is no longer in the running.
uurtamo [-\]: sorry to say.
peniiopaa: its shameful that b is still playing
polonius [2d?\]: how strong is MC gnugo?
awesome [5k\]: :'(
]
;W[bm]WL[2665.58]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: from this we can deduce that monkey jumps are a bad idea
goIngo [-\]: no, it is his good right
oonicks [?\]: never seen it play a 10 yet
uurtamo [-\]: it is shameful to you? you are too harsh.
fluidistic [7k\]: 1d polonius i think
threeoone [5k\]: b m6 worth trying maybe
RayTomes [2d\]: haha come again
]
;B[am]BL[528.354]OB[22]C[Ever612 [7k?\]: He can play however he wants
shinobi123: There's no shame, this is a computer, it doesn't care.
gogonuts [5d\]: good night, ingo
goIngo [-\]: good night stefan
fluidistic [7k\]: bye gogonuts
fluidistic [7k\]: see you tomorrow
uurtamo [-\]: that's like criticizing the way someone plays asteroids or pacman.
gogonuts [5d\]: cu
]
;W[ab]WL[2632.066]C[PonKiske [5k\]: Yeah... you say computers don't care... then they take over the world
odnihs [-\]: hoho
Ukasuhs [3d\]: how can you be mad at b for trying something? have you never seen the desperate stuff bots do when they should resign
ajahuang [6d\]: see you
Vador [?\]: There are ugly ways to play Pacman !!!
goIngo [-\]: by aja
Ootakamoku [3d\]: b6
]
;B[cb]BL[500.446]OB[21]C[cyryts [2k\]: i wonder what the winning rate is now
ajahuang [6d\]: what you guys will play for Black's M19?
fluidistic [7k\]: probably around 80% for zen
Vador [?\]: Killing poor ghosts just for blood lust
goIngo [-\]: mf says 76 %
grooviest [4k\]: a10?
ndkrempel [4d?\]: M19 -> L18
ndkrempel [4d?\]: no problem for white
]
;W[fk]WL[2599.194]C[oonicks [?\]: i am behind 1 pt ow i have the monkey jump, i am behind 2 points oh i have ...... 40 points oh i have...
Kanin [-\]: if 80% really then there is certainly nothing wrong with keeping on playing
Ootakamoku [3d\]: aja, m18?
]
;B[ao]BL[483.083]OB[20]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: Is Zen that far ahead?
Persians [2k\]: what go wrong?
BobWhoosta [1k\]: To allow this A5?
wuwei [4k\]: i w doing that stuf when he wins by 0.5 on purpose?
lepore [1d\]: g11 possible?
peniiopaa: why the bot is playing stupid now
kunel [5k?\]: tromp needs to cheese it up
billywoods [8k\]: zen's a computer. counting is its job. if zen thinks it's ahead, i believe it ;)
oonicks [?\]: nah 39.5 or so
]
;W[bn]WL[2558.938]C[kunel [5k?\]: cheese-it
]
;B[an]BL[479.711]OB[19]C[sunabukuro [2d\]: I agree with Kunel
kunel [5k?\]: ezpz dont cheese me
fluidistic [7k\]: omg that monkey jump was rewardful
shyin [11k\]: b could try k9, maybe zen wont see it lol
sunabukuro [2d\]: Bring the velvita
uurtamo [-\]: billywoods, then you should accept its opinion on the first move.
kunel [5k?\]: gouda?
uurtamo [-\]: and simply resign or claim victory.
sunabukuro [2d\]: gowda?
BlackLodge [3k\]: i guess its not about playing better, but whether he can beat the computer
]
;W[rr]WL[2520.093]C[BobWhoosta [1k\]: I just don't think Zen is so far ahead he can allow this kind of reduction.
uurtamo [-\]: blacklodge, it is about winning, and winning is playing better.
PonKiske [5k\]: ?
threeoone [5k\]: m6 or nothin
grooviest [4k\]: what the hey?
kunel [5k?\]: that was no monkey jump
polonius [2d?\]: is zen drunk
blixa [2k\]: pretty big reduction
kunel [5k?\]: that was a gorilla stampede
supperman [1k\]: b2
BlackLodge [3k\]: no, taking advantage of bad computer play isnt playing better go
uurtamo [-\]: b2 or b3?
peniiopaa: zens circuitry is frying now
MaxDWolf [4k?\]: Bob, it can allow this reduction and a great deal more. 
supperman [1k\]: l6
sunabukuro [2d\]: Zen isn't trying to allow points, it should be playing what it feels would give the highest win probability
shinobi123: Winning is winning.
supperman [1k\]: o5
uurtamo [-\]: blacklodge, you should be aware that this is a tournament.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: BlackLodge, did you just say punishing your opponents mistakes isn't playing better go than them?
grooviest [4k\]: somebody should let me look at the monkey jump logic
BlackLodge [3k\]: im aware of everything
uurtamo [-\]: not a japanese painting.
]
;B[kn]BL[409.413]OB[18]C[odnihs [-\]: b has around 70+ on the bottom
odnihs [-\]: w*
JamezQ [14k?\]: Part of this is to improve computers, so taking advantage of the computer is important to improving it.
kunel [5k?\]: incoming cheese detected
JamezQ [14k?\]: or the go AI* rather
odnihs [-\]: that's more than all of b
]
;W[jo]WL[2497.809]C[wuwei [4k\]: ok, the game got interesting again
BobWhoosta [1k\]: This is the last gasp.
BobWhoosta [1k\]: Gotta go all.
MaxDWolf [4k?\]: Interesting how?
reprisal [4d?\]: if my opponent makes a mistake, i pounce on it, who cares what kind or how easily avoidable the mistake is
uurtamo [-\]: later, bob.
Liisa [2d\]: GnuGo: w+19.8
peniiopaa: m6
fluidistic [7k\]: 19.8?
]
;B[ll]BL[369.005]OB[17]C[Wobble [3k\]: i'm sure professionals look at their opponents style and how to exploit it - similar thing
reprisal [4d?\]: also it is likely has locked the win and is willing to give up tons of points in endgame
fluidistic [7k\]: .8?
Liisa [2d\]: yes, it is accurate
awesome [5k\]: :)
fluidistic [7k\]: weird counting
Wobble [3k\]: one of the stones is chipped
threeoone [5k\]: :)
fluidistic [7k\]: ah I see
]
;W[ln]WL[2462.065]C[oonicks [?\]: yes still way ahead
Persians [2k\]: B canot get more 80 points
Kanin [-\]: the bet is a thousand bucks, right?
uurtamo [-\]: could be (i'm not sure how) that b's late yose is better than w's, and if w miscalculates down to a 1-2 point win, b wins in the end.
JamezQ [14k?\]: Yes
]
;B[oo]BL[335.559]OB[16]C[kneh [7k\]: nope, no money at stake
fluidistic [7k\]: no there's no bet
kneh [7k\]: that was the previous bet
farful [9k\]: money was for last year
Kanin [-\]: tromp should just have given a moderately strong player $50 to play 5 games
Kanin [-\]: ah...
]
;W[nk]WL[2436.099]
;B[nj]BL[332.288]OB[15]C[brainiaq [2k\]: what is this tournament?
uurtamo [-\]: best of 5, tromp versus zen.
Vash3G [-\]: $50 is not a lot for beer money
Imagingo [17k\]: Zen seemed to do weird stuff and throw away points last night, maybe tromp expects that sort of play again
]
;W[ml]WL[2416.944]C[Kanin [-\]: well, in that case there is just honor on stake?
]
;B[mj]BL[330.266]OB[14]C[fluidistic [7k\]: honor match
polonius [2d?\]: the honor of humanity
reprisal [4d?\]: no, the fate of mankind
uurtamo [-\]: truly the fate of mankind.
]
;W[ma]WL[2398.741]C[cyryts [2k\]: about 70 points honor
uurtamo [-\]: are robots our masters, etc.
brainiaq [2k\]: why does tromp represent mankind?
Wobble [3k\]: loser is enslaved ;)
brainiaq [2k\]: who picked him?
shinobi123: If computers can beat us at go, then I would admit they might be able to take over the world.
]
;B[oa]BL[315.846]OB[13]C[kunel [5k?\]: pretty sure when this bot wins, Skynet is gonna go on-line and we done for as humankind
polonius [2d?\]: because he invented the tromp-taylor rules
uurtamo [-\]: because only he is willing to sack it out for a two years in a row.
trohde [13k\]: Is this the prequel to Terminator?
threeoone [5k\]: robots rule ur bank account 
uurtamo [-\]: would you bet 1000 on yourself as a european 1dan?
kunel [5k?\]: yes, yes it is
]
;W[jk]WL[2370.468]C[polonius [2d?\]: i think he was 1k
Persians [2k\]: b need resign
]
;B[kk]BL[311.637]OB[12]C[Uberdude [2d?\]: w could have stopped the monkey jump with a11..........
polonius [2d?\]: at the time of bet
uurtamo [-\]: sweet, even tighter.
Vash3G [-\]: chance?
oonicks [?\]: i computers beat humans at go i wont allow myself to be as papranoid they would do worse than we at taking over the world
uurtamo [-\]: takes bold sack.
kunel [5k?\]: the mayans predicted Skynet would take over after this game in 2012
LEIBNIZ [2k\]: loser must work calculus problems for audience
]
;W[bp]WL[2341.011]C[fluidistic [7k\]: lol
Nemea [2k\]: g9
uurtamo [-\]: finally w is worried about points.
threeoone [5k\]: humans are so bad at counting
billywoods [8k\]: audience does not want loser to solve calculus problems
Uberdude [2d?\]: g9 h5 
uurtamo [-\]: hilarious.
Uberdude [2d?\]: some b stones in atari
sunabukuro [2d\]: resign
Imagingo [17k\]: white does mysterious stuff
]
;B[no]BL[289.633]OB[11]
;W[mo]WL[2320.059]C[uurtamo [-\]: w worries about points when it could easily affect the outcome of the game.
]
;B[ap]BL[285.54]OB[10]C[hiss [-\]: I think w is leading
polonius [2d?\]: b should maybe consider thinking of resigning
fluidistic [7k\]: lol hiss
Kanin [-\]: imagingo that's the way it is with magic, it's mysterious
Imagingo [17k\]: if computer go eventually surpasses the top pros, will we need to invent new ranks?
kunel [5k?\]: no
kunel [5k?\]: we would just create our own bots
wuwei [4k\]: b4 = it was nice, maybe we should do it again sometime, yo are a strong player
shyin [11k\]: just use elo
emerald000 [3k\]: 1c to 9c
Nemea [2k\]: b can win??
kunel [5k?\]: and have them battle against each other
]
;W[bq]WL[2287.204]C[PonKiske [5k\]: How long till that happens? 
oonicks [?\]: after 9p just 0c
uurtamo [-\]: wuwei: you made me laugh.
kunel [5k?\]: like pokemon
Kanin [-\]: robowars: go edition
]
;B[aq]BL[278.121]OB[9]C[Kanin [-\]: doesn't really pack as much flare
signin [7k\]: g9?
reprisal [4d?\]: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2124#comic
fluidistic [7k\]: 1c u mean oonicks
oonicks [?\]: how cud we tell?
]
;W[fi]WL[2264.451]C[threeoone [5k\]: review: b failed to play on the lower side first
]
;B[fh]BL[273.785]OB[8]C[brainiaq [2k\]: what is the score of the tournament?
reprisal [4d?\]: i welcome our new AI overlords
emerald000 [3k\]: 1-0 trump
kneh [7k\]: when will the next match be played?
fluidistic [7k\]: 1 win for Tromp, 0 for zen so far
fluidistic [7k\]: tomorrow same hour
shinobi123: Tromp one by resignation the first match.
brainiaq [2k\]: so, 1-1
]
;W[nn]WL[2245.009]C[polonius [2d?\]: review: b thought f2 was gote. it wasn't.
goIngo [-\]: every 24 hours one round
]
;B[ek]BL[264.333]OB[7]C[fluidistic [7k\]: at same hour
Imagingo [17k\]: f2 was nice
fluidistic [7k\]: where is Tromp for?
fluidistic [7k\]: from
fluidistic [7k\]: *
]
;W[bi]WL[2219.502]
;B[ai]BL[261.29]OB[6]C[peniiopaa: shameful if tromp wins
uurtamo [-\]: the netherlands.
uurtamo [-\]: i believe.
]
;W[el]WL[2209.462]C[PonKiske [5k\]: Looks swedish
cyryts [2k\]: i think a move other than l8 might have worked
fluidistic [7k\]: ok thx
goIngo [-\]: living on NY
]
;B[gk]BL[255.796]OB[5]C[goIngo [-\]: in NY
costco [2k\]: haha
]
;W[ho]WL[2200.063]C[costco [2k\]: oh
costco [2k\]: oh woops
]
;B[ef]BL[239.236]OB[4]C[oonicks [?\]: yes i think tenuki at l8 might have distracted it
costco [2k\]: i tyhought white coulnd cap next move for a second
polonius [2d?\]: a3 is so ridiculous
costco [2k\]: sorry guys
Uberdude [2d?\]: ♫♪ A Dutchman in New York ♫
uurtamo [-\]: it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
]
;W[bj]WL[2181.444]
;B[aj]BL[236.321]OB[3]C[fluidistic [7k\]: why time control is so weird? Tromp had 4:05 after he played and time went down to 4:00 instantly
]
;W[di]WL[2170.474]C[NoC: lag?
]
;B[eh]BL[233.239]OB[2]C[billywoods [8k\]: just lag, fluid
fluidistic [7k\]: 5s lag... wow
MitaniKun [4k\]: is this the first game?
Wobble [3k\]: second game
uurtamo [-\]: second.
JamezQ [14k?\]: 2nd
NoC: 2nd
MitaniKun [4k\]: who won the first?
]
;W[af]WL[2151.34]C[Wobble [3k\]: tromp
billywoods [8k\]: tromp
fluidistic [7k\]: so this is a very huge lag
shinobi123: Tromp
uurtamo [-\]: 1-0 tromp
]
;B[ag]BL[228.243]OB[1]
;W[ae]WL[2141.982]C[Vador [?\]: How do you call a jump like A11-A3 ?
NoC: by resignation
begue: 1-1 soon
Persians [2k\]: 1-1 now
Vador [?\]: Snake jump ???
kunel [5k?\]: its called a gorilla stampede
kunel [5k?\]: already said this
kunel [5k?\]: listen, geez
emerald000 [3k\]: snakes are pretty bad at jumping
oonicks [?\]: giant leap for mankind
uurtamo [-\]: not jumping snakes.
shinobi123: Some snakes can glide.
billywoods [8k\]: that's much more of a slither though
Uberdude [2d?\]: at least when go seigen did it to kitani there was a ko at the end of it
awesome [5k\]: b2
unorthodox [8k\]: like a silverback met a trampoline
polonius [2d?\]: haha oonicks
Vador [?\]: You don't know MY snake !
goIngo [-\]: Once I beat Handtalk with a complete black ring outside
Uberdude [2d?\]: from their kamakura series
uurtamo [-\]: dude.
ALVEDEGUZ [5k\]: go tromp
goIngo [-\]: Handtalk did not see that a1 and t19 were two eyes
PonKiske [5k\]: What about snakes on a plane... they fly!
unorthodox [8k\]: but theydon't jump
threeoone [5k\]: www.littlegolem.net
Vador [?\]: Beats Karl Lewis by a few inches !
nucklehead [6k\]: lol
shinobi123: They ride on a plane, the plane flies.
PonKiske [5k\]: hmmm...
kunel [5k?\]: tromp needs a baneling bust right about now
polonius [2d?\]: tromp counting
PonKiske [5k\]: there seems to be a commutative property at work here...
uurtamo [-\]: Carl
PonKiske [5k\]: or associative
fluidistic [7k\]: no need to count here
billywoods [8k\]: "whatever, some maths"
fluidistic [7k\]: just look at south
kunel [5k?\]: ;/
PonKiske [5k\]: yes
]
;B[gj]BL[600]OB[25]C[Persians [2k\]: lose much
Uberdude [2d?\]: t4?
shyin [11k\]: he could g8 here no?
Imagingo [17k\]: has zen ever beaten tromp before?
polonius [2d?\]: no
]
;W[cf]WL[2113.202]
;B[bg]BL[597.326]OB[24]C[uurtamo [-\]: not in a long-time game.
Uberdude [2d?\]: yes he can g8
PonKiske [5k\]: Tromp made a huge mistake by tenuki f2
Uberdude [2d?\]: but it is gote
uurtamo [-\]: apparently zen got an oil change.
]
;W[gl]WL[2093.006]C[fluidistic [7k\]: Tromp isn't playing the moves on the goban it seems, he answers way too fast to sme moves
Uberdude [2d?\]: this way hopes to be sente
fluidistic [7k\]: he's playing directly into his cpu
]
;B[ff]BL[583.801]OB[23]
;W[ge]WL[2084.05]C[ndkrempel [4d?\]: his cpu? you mean his brain?
]
;B[ee]BL[571.208]OB[22]C[kneh [7k\]: what's the point playing on a goban along side the computer?
blixa [2k\]: no, he's actually modulating the data bus directly
fluidistic [7k\]: yesterday he said he had a goban in which he would play and then play the moves on his cpu
polonius [2d?\]: every time i glance at A8 i freak out
yoyoma [2d\]: "Do not trust your CPU" -- PoltPrime
]
;W[fd]WL[2066.494]C[uurtamo [-\]: i applaud john's effort regardless. and i hope everyone can keep it classy.
unorthodox [8k\]: w+20+
]
;B[bk]BL[553.906]OB[21]C[threeoone [5k\]: tenuki was ok but as w played p3 b had to add a move
fluidistic [7k\]: I applause gogonuts who beat zen just before Tromp started his match today :)
Wobble [3k\]: just shift your window slightly so you can't see the edge of the board ;)
]
;W[ck]WL[2048.202]C[Persians [2k\]: w more 84 points
oonicks [?\]: oh i liked it greatly and good to see zen win a game with some great side at this level
]
;B[br]BL[517.015]OB[20]
;W[ok]WL[2039.475]
;B[oj]BL[513.368]OB[19]C[polonius [2d?\]: it's too bad tromp doesn't have a KGS rank
fluidistic [7k\]: K18 for b
billywoods [8k\]: ?
hiss [-\]: W+11
fluidistic [7k\]: well he tried this game polonius
fluidistic [7k\]: this game is rated
uurtamo [-\]: why, kgs ranks are blitz-inflated.
polonius [2d?\]: no it isn't
fluidistic [7k\]: hmm... not raked... wow
]
;W[sp]WL[2010.607]C[fluidistic [7k\]: they said they would make it rated..
]
;B[so]BL[504.872]OB[18]C[threeoone [5k\]: :) @uurtamo
threeoone [5k\]: true
]
;W[sq]WL[1996.58]
;B[qo]BL[501.842]OB[17]C[uurtamo [-\]: how many slow 9d/9d games do you see here?
Monocle [3k\]: how are kgs ranks blitz-inflated? wouldn't they be blitz-deflated just as often?
]
;W[cr]WL[1969.731]C[kneh [7k\]: for 9d games you want to go to tygem
]
;B[bo]BL[490.475]OB[16]
;W[co]WL[1952.786]C[fluidistic [7k\]: K18
fluidistic [7k\]: now
Ukasuhs [3d\]: tygem 9s on average weaker than kgs 9d
uurtamo [-\]: yes, but on a blitz scale. there are fantastic blitz chessplayers in the park in new york as well.
]
;B[on]BL[479.524]OB[15]C[Ukasuhs [3d\]: 9d*
billywoods [8k\]: k18 doesn't do anything does it?
Persians [2k\]: a boaring game
nevercare2 [1d\]: W about 20 ahead
]
;W[om]WL[1935.671]
;B[km]BL[474.174]OB[14]C[grooviest [4k\]: full of boar?
wuwei [4k\]: k18 = 0
]
;W[bs]WL[1921.764]C[polonius [2d?\]: it's a board game
]
;B[ar]BL[471.435]OB[13]C[hanxu1981 [4k\]: is tromp a pro player?
uurtamo [-\]: no.
Ukasuhs [3d\]: hes egf 2d
]
;W[ko]WL[1910.013]C[fluidistic [7k\]: is this considered as pro level?
]
;B[gi]BL[452.951]OB[12]C[threeoone [5k\]: made a famous bet on bots
uurtamo [-\]: no
qQQp [-\]: he is. he once won $1000 for a series of games ;-)
uurtamo [-\]: cute
hiss [-\]: p4 sente?
]
;W[fl]WL[1893.875]
;B[df]BL[450.872]OB[11]C[supperman [1k\]: SE counting with japanese rules?
odnihs [-\]: no
yoyoma [2d\]: I have probably won over $100 in Go tournaments in my life  :D
]
;W[ce]WL[1877.929]C[emerald000 [3k\]: counting with its own wrong rules
]
;B[pn]BL[446.121]OB[10]C[polonius [2d?\]: how much did you spend on traveling to go tournaments
uurtamo [-\]: lol
yoyoma [2d\]: quiet polonius!
odnihs [-\]: har har
]
;W[gg]WL[1860.6]C[qQQp [-\]: paid for playing => pro ;-)
unorthodox [8k\]: lol
]
;B[fg]BL[432.774]OB[9]C[yoyoma [2d\]: oh how much is a KGS crown worth?  $500?
hanxu1981 [4k\]: haha
odnihs [-\]: I'll sell mine for $500 ;)
]
;W[op]WL[1835.019]C[ketchup [-\]: kgs crown worth maybe price of kgs+ for a month right?
threeoone [5k\]: in 1987 pros where "quite astonished that the bot is awre the game its at its end" playing 9x9 
unorthodox [8k\]: I missed the youth tournament signup this year though :(
uurtamo [-\]: more like polonium.
ketchup [-\]: or hwoever much it is
yoyoma [2d\]: odnihs I will buy it and become the only person on KGS with 2 crowns!
]
;B[ba]BL[417.56]OB[8]C[odnihs [-\]: which youth tournament?
unorthodox [8k\]: the u.s. one
odnihs [-\]: :D
]
;W[nd]WL[1817.275]C[odnihs [-\]: oh
odnihs [-\]: deadline is tomorrow
odnihs [-\]: you can still register
unorthodox [8k\]: don't have time to rank aga
]
;B[nc]BL[406.282]OB[7]C[odnihs [-\]: you can use your kgs rank
billywoods [8k\]: threeoone: well, pros have got a lot more intelligent since 1987
odnihs [-\]: as long as you're an aga member
unorthodox [8k\]: really?
]
;W[de]WL[1801.849]C[odnihs [-\]: i think so
unorthodox [8k\]: well, shoot
]
;B[aa]BL[402.742]OB[6]C[unorthodox [8k\]: I need to hurry up
threeoone [5k\]: i should really improve my rating ...
]
;W[ac]WL[1786.605]
;B[ah]BL[401.253]OB[5]C[polonius [2d?\]: i guess tromp keeps playing to get more experience fighting zen in yose
odnihs [-\]: wait maybe not
odnihs [-\]: im not sure xD
]
;W[jb]WL[1762.386]C[billywoods [8k\]: frankly
]
;B[as]BL[395.475]OB[4]C[billywoods [8k\]: playing to the end was worth it to realise that zen was crap at monkey jumps
]
;W[cs]WL[1752.957]
;B[na]BL[393.757]OB[3]C[supperman [1k\]: m7
]
;W[lm]WL[1738.838]C[ndkrempel [4d?\]: strong at dame
]
;B[]BL[391.584]OB[2]
;W[]WL[1738.779]TW[ka][la][kb][lb][jc][kc][lc][ad][bd][jd][kd][ld][md][cj][cl][dl][hl][ol][cm][dm][fm][im][nm][cn][dn][fn][hn][in][mn][eo][fo][go][io][lo][cp][ep][fp][gp][ip][lp][mp][cq][fq][gq][hq][jq][kq][lq][mq][nq][er][hr][kr][lr][mr][nr][or][pr][sr][ds][es][fs][gs][hs][is][js][ks][ls][ms][ns][os][ps][qs][rs][ss]TB[ca][da][ea][fa][ga][pa][qa][ra][sa][db][gb][ob][qb][rb][sb][pc][qc][rc][sc][rd][sd][re][se][qf][rf][sf][eg][kg][lg][mg][ng][og][pg][qg][rg][sg][ih][kh][lh][mh][nh][oh][ph][qh][rh][sh][hi][ii][ki][li][mi][ni][oi][pi][qi][ri][si][kj][qj][rj][sj][lk][qk][rk][sk][rl][sl][rm][sm][rn][sn][po][ro]C[RayTomes [2d\]: ding dong
fluidistic [7k\]: gg
threeoone [5k\]: tromp issued a severe missunderstnading in the direction of play 
polonius [2d?\]: next game tromp will play 4 monkey jumps
Ukasuhs [3d\]: lol the monkey jump from a9 to a1
Uberdude [2d?\]: i think zen is good at monkey jumps if it needs to be to win
grooviest [4k\]: ding ding
gghideki [3k?\]: thanks
RayTomes [2d\]: 1 each
lepore [1d\]: gg both
goIngo [-\]: thx
threeoone [5k\]: thx gg
RayTomes [2d\]: 1:1 or 50:52
goIngo [-\]: congratulations to zen team
MitaniKun [4k\]: any more games?
uurtamo [-\]: congratulations, john! good fight.
billywoods [8k\]: unlucky tromp, was fun to watch :)
LustaDog [?\]: This is the end.
qQQp [-\]: thanks 
AOA [-\]: awesome
qQQp [-\]: now there is 1 round more
odnihs [-\]: best of 5
fluidistic [7k\]: nice
billywoods [8k\]: next game, more monkey jumps?
polonius [2d?\]: the enslavement of humanity starts here
fluidistic [7k\]: more games, more interesting
heather [1d\]: gg
nat1dpm [9k\]: thank you
tromp [-\]: guess i cldve resigned after losing group
supperman [1k\]: That's one small step for computer, one giant leap for mankind
uurtamo [-\]: no need.
Persians [2k\]: QQ
odnihs [-\]: we saw a super monkey jump
tromp [-\]: thx for watching the show
uurtamo [-\]: 'twas great fun.
darthbunny: thx john
emerald000 [3k\]: Thanks for making the show.
goIngo [-\]: thx john for giving the show
odnihs [-\]: :) gl tomorrow
shinobi123: Good luck tomorrow Mr. Tromp!
uurtamo [-\]: very, very hard in the middlegame.
AOA [-\]: it's good to test the bot the whole game, if it can't play yose correctly, that's its problem
AOA [-\]: they tend to have trouble finishing games
cyryts [2k\]: tromp, was g6 a kill, or did you miss something?
trohde [13k\]: thx
])
