(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]HA[7]KM[0.50]TM[5400]
PW[MyungWan]PB[MoGoTiTan]WR[8p]DT[2008-09-21]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[MoGoTiTan [-\]: GTP Engine for MoGoTiTan (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[dd]BL[5399.663]
;B[dj]BL[5399.485]
;B[dp]BL[5399.278]
;B[pd]BL[5399.069]
;B[pj]BL[5398.86]
;B[pp]BL[5398.648]
;B[jj]BL[5398.437]C[Oroth [7k\]: oh, its the real game
xedover [6k?\]: yea !
ShihChing [6k\]: o3
MyungWan [8p\]: hi
]
;W[nq]WL[5371.704]C[teytaud [-\]: hi again
YiSetol [2d?\]: 90 minutes each?
flippant [5k\]: B O6 again?
jeffywhite [6k\]: hi
Batavia [6k\]: go mogo, take over the world
ZenChocobo [-\]: can myung see our text?
Oroth [7k\]: wonder what mogo selects with extra time
vavoysh [6k\]: no,  he can't
]
;B[md]BL[5376.046]C[inte [?\]: another loose "ladder"?
GuuChan [1k\]: wow, long game
ZenChocobo [-\]: so he was saying hi to the robot?
]
;W[pn]WL[5362.79]C[vavoysh [6k\]: and this will be like the match on the 7th, but with less handi
GuuChan [1k\]: bet MyungWan will have more fun now :)
NicoRobin [4d\]: O6 must have just been a time pressure move then
]
;B[mj]BL[5351.983]C[flippant [5k\]: how much time do you need to pick a joseki?
]
;W[no]WL[5357.397]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: i dont think he knows any
Daan [6k\]: you must be polite even if it's a machine
ShihChing [6k\]: f16
NicoRobin [4d\]: K16
GuuChan [1k\]: Bots like when their opponent is polite
Oroth [7k\]: mogo prefers to play away as much as possible early on
flippant [5k\]: if i wrote a bot
]
;B[gj]BL[5326.278]C[flippant [5k\]: i'd have it say "hi" and "good luck"
GuuChan [1k\]: specifically it makes them avoid loose ladders
ShihChing [6k\]: Hmm..
Oroth [7k\]: interesting handicap joseki
pasky [1d\]: great wall variant? ;)
]
;W[ic]WL[5344.351]C[GoteGoat [-\]: Big Wall of Moar Go
gobrobo [13k\]: flippant: MoGo + ALICE = ?
flippant [5k\]: the bot definitely has fuseki unlike anything i've seen
flippant [5k\]: heh
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Mogo thinks 76 percent chance winning :)
peterchris [3k\]: obviously this is a totally different mogo fuseki from normal
ice9407 [5k\]: how strong is this computer?
]
;B[gc]BL[5299.483]
;W[kc]WL[5339.138]C[GuuChan [1k\]: it would be safer to play {G,N}{9,11} anyway
tsiki [1d\]: 76%? that's pretty pessimistic
flippant [5k\]: mogo + alice = "Why do you say that I am in snapback?"
NicoRobin [4d\]: it is optimistic lapin :p
arapbaci [2k\]: how can u see the percentage?
ShihChing [6k\]: g17 first logical move..
suzuchan [1d\]: maybe sum has fumbled around the code
gobrobo [13k\]: "Did you play j17 because of concerns with your mother?"
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Of course, it doesn't know that its opponent is 8p
pasky [1d\]: 76 sounds about right for this stage of game
GuuChan [1k\]: (d'oh ! I said 9/11, beware the terrorist attacks !)
]
;B[ge]BL[5270.883]C[GoteGoat [-\]: ...
peterchris [3k\]: they are using a totally different binary for this long game, from what they used in the short game.
]
;W[mb]WL[5331.153]C[peterchris [3k\]: i think
pasky [1d\]: that'd be surprising
pasky [1d\]: why do you think so?
NicoRobin [4d\]: the bots moves this game make a lot of sense so far
jeffywhite [6k\]: can computers learn joseki?
ShihChing [6k\]: Hope MyungWan uses more of his time this game.
peterchris [3k\]: or at least a different configuration.
]
;B[gp]BL[5241.573]C[flippant [5k\]: sure computers can learn joseki
pasky [1d\]: well, yes, the time controls are different ;)
arapbaci [2k\]: again, was 76% was a joke or can we monitor it somewhere?
GuuChan [1k\]: nice boxes
flippant [5k\]: joseki is the easiest thing for a computer to learn, you just memorize
]
;W[bj]WL[5318.705]C[ddoshay [7k?\]: same code, just more time
ZenChocobo [-\]: dude mogo is kickin ass
ZenChocobo [-\]: ;)
peterchris [3k\]: have you ever, ever seen mogo play 5 equidistant moves on center line?
jeffywhite [6k\]: what about this one
maakuu [4k\]: joseki is not always the best ^^
GuuChan [1k\]: lil' boxes, on the hillside...
pasky [1d\]: flippant: joseki are harmful if you use wrong ones, and learning when to use the right ones is the hard part
tsiki [1d\]: the 8p moves seem a bit, eh, slow
pasky [1d\]: flippant: gnugo knows plenty of joseki, doesn't do it much good
]
;B[pg]BL[5210.213]C[peterchris [3k\]: previous game had normal (for mogo) fuseki
ZenChocobo [-\]: hes playing with mogos mind
Rocker [4d\]: again!?
flippant [5k\]: true
]
;W[ch]WL[5312.377]C[peterchris [3k\]: this game is not mogo like.
GoteGoat [-\]: cabin fever
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: MoGo thinks 78 percent now
flippant [5k\]: mogo really likes the 2 space extensions
jeffywhite [6k\]: how do you know
arapbaci [2k\]: where can i monitor it ><
pasky [1d\]: peterchris: I've watches *many* mogo games :)
]
;B[cl]BL[5177.555]C[arpad [-\]: you have to launch mogo yourself to see this :)
jeffywhite [6k\]: how
arapbaci [2k\]: ah i see
peterchris [3k\]: pasky: i know u have, some of them with me playing ; ) 
]
;W[bd]WL[5293.299]C[pasky [1d\]: :)
Vistani [2k\]: is there a bot running mogo on kgs that plays 19x19?
GuuChan [1k\]: maybe LapinBlanc has an account on the cluster so he can monitor overall load :)
pasky [1d\]: i don't think this is too unusual with mogo, and also the more power you give it, te more its fuseki "normalizes"
Demi [1k\]: several
Rocker [4d\]: mogo is very polite to stating what hes gonnaa do when losing and winning
ZenChocobo [-\]: I would totally beat the hell outta w......................................
ZenChocobo [-\]: in basketball
pasky [1d\]: vistani: e.g. czechbot or rollo
apagis [3d\]: center mogo moves not working efficiently by now
]
;B[eg]BL[5143.666]C[GuuChan [1k\]: (or some web frontend we don't know of)
Demi [1k\]: or mogobot1/2
ice9407 [5k\]: this computer must be very strong 
jnr [-\]: LapinBlanc : How many sim by move ?
]
;W[iq]WL[5284.773]C[peterchris [3k\]: paski: but like i said, have you evenonce see it play a fuseki with 5 consecutive 2-space extensions?
ZenChocobo [-\]: must be a handi
NicoRobin [4d\]: K14 would look pretty if w played it :p
TDK [9k\]: how can you get the evaluation without running it on that supercomputer yourself?
pasky [1d\]: peterchris: I think it played pretty similar in its last game with myungwan
pasky [1d\]: last long one, that is
GlebD [3d\]: go mogo go !!!
Rocker [4d\]: if i play a bot i will just test all overplays , jejeje 
]
;B[ip]BL[5108.471]
;W[jp]WL[5282.088]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: finally they touch
pasky [1d\]: tdk: lapinblanc *is* doing exactly that :)
TDK [9k\]: oh i see
youth [5k\]: I wish mogo could "whisper" his evaluations to the audience (wihtout MyungWan seeing it)
Rocker [4d\]: to see how it responde is more fun  then win hehe
peterchris [3k\]: pasky: take another look at the fuseki of last game, *every move* was close to myung's previous move.
]
;B[io]BL[5072.156]C[jnr [-\]: TDK : you cannot
]
;W[hq]WL[5271.227]C[peterchris [3k\]: this game, the first 10 moves were all tenuki
eternalkyu [2k\]: :) rocker
suzuchan [1d\]: not a good day for the human race
ZenChocobo [-\]: last game mogo wqas more violent
pasky [1d\]: peterchris: well, it seems to me this is not that unusual, but i can't point you to any other examples now...
Karcusrd [7k\]: This bot dont know its getting reduced already
]
;B[gq]BL[5034.157]C[peterchris [3k\]: ok
]
;W[jo]WL[5267.002]C[rgergge: that bot plays so bad
STRONG9D: r3 lives anytime
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: With that move, mogo increased its evaluation to 80% chance of winning 
apagis [3d\]: i think mogo is going to have a hard game
eternalkyu [2k\]: from?
]
;B[jn]BL[4994.633]C[LapinBlanc [2d?\]: It started at 75% in the beginning
mmueller [3k?\]: Good position for Mogo
TDK [9k\]: are you deaf apagis? 80%. welcome your new machine overlords :)
]
;W[cn]WL[5248.87]C[STRONG9D: r4*
eternalkyu [2k\]: okiedokie
apagis [3d\]: w will pick it up here and there
pasky [1d\]: c6 looks kinda cool
STRONG9D: q4**
jeffywhite [6k\]: lapinblanc how do you get mogo to run on ur computer
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: So it's fun to see that Mogo is more confident now than in the first move, I wouldn't share his opinion :)
Vistani [2k\]: mogo seemed to think it had a 100% of laddering that group last game, look how that turned out!
Americano: still computers needmore PlayGo.to tutorial, I think
]
;B[jq]BL[4954.131]
;W[kq]WL[5244.196]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: hehehe, that indeed is interesting :)
pasky [1d\]: jeffywhite: do you have a ceremonial goat and last year's crop handy?
elohimmeth [1k\]: missread again
jeffywhite [6k\]: no
jeffywhite [6k\]: why
apagis [3d\]: this is not necessarily a misread
pasky [1d\]: it's one of crucial requirements for mogo
jeffywhite [6k\]: darn
flippant [5k\]: you can download mogo at http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htm
gobrobo [13k\]: no goat? this guy is clueless
mstarsup5 [-\]: just a probe :)
jeffywhite [6k\]: i have syrup and butter
]
;B[jr]BL[4912.428]
;W[kr]WL[5241.827]C[TDK [9k\]: i thought it was a dead cat. meh. i'll stick with gnugo then. 
eternalkyu [2k\]: give us l5!
Americano: they need more fuseki lessons and global board judgement
Karcusrd [7k\]: W takes corners
jeffywhite [6k\]: thanks
jeffywhite [6k\]: i dont know if i will though
]
;B[kp]BL[4869.239]
;W[ko]WL[5238.641]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: another ladder
ZenChocobo [-\]: not another pointless ladder?
pasky [1d\]: lapinblanc, what is mogo's opinion here?
suzuchan [1d\]: m5^^
peterchris [3k\]: mogo will k6
pasky [1d\]: it already did that one
krakengo [1d\]: this is for shibori
gobrobo [13k\]: Karcusrd, the three white stones surrounding q4 sufficient for that?
Karcusrd [7k\]: to stop W momentom
]
;B[kn]BL[4825.132]C[peterchris [3k\]: mogo still thinks it owns bottom rt corner
]
;W[lo]WL[5235.228]C[gobrobo [13k\]: apologies for a game related question ;[
peterchris [3k\]: now mogo tenuki
kyu30dummy: the ronbot does not think
pasky [1d\]: i think it'll force
peterchris [3k\]: what's force? l6?
Karcusrd [7k\]: i know but also the other corners
]
;B[dn]BL[4779.303]C[pasky [1d\]: h2
pasky [1d\]: aaw
elohimmeth [1k\]: good.
eternalkyu [2k\]: oh, good move
]
;W[cp]WL[5225.817]C[GlebD [3d\]: go mogo go !!!
krakengo [1d\]: this stuff is strong
Karcusrd [7k\]: watch the bot try to defend them now
eternalkyu [2k\]: I'm not sure I want to do that, karcusrd :(
TDK [9k\]: how does it do it's timing? just cut after some confidence interval? cause it's losing more and more time compared.
]
;B[cq]BL[4732.63]
;W[do]WL[5219.986]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo's opening is good but the five in a row need to be closer together
pasky [1d\]: i'm actually not sure about that one either
flippant [5k\]: well, it's spent about 1/8 of its time
pasky [1d\]: warfreak, haha
flippant [5k\]: and made about 360 * 1/8 moves
jeffywhite [6k\]: and its 1/8of the game
STRONG9D: b is behind
peterchris [3k\]: mogo will let white cut
]
;B[eo]BL[4684.36]
;W[co]WL[5217.376]C[pasky [1d\]: mogo doesn't like corners
eternalkyu [2k\]: d3 please
flippant [5k\]: mogo likes to make walls with many, many cutting points
Warfreak2 [3d\]: b3
Rocker [4d\]: mogo has no sense to taking out  2 eeyes to attack
pasky [1d\]: actually mogo is *pretty* good in that particular one, rocker
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Mogo wants to kill white
Warfreak2 [3d\]: think like a bot: hangman
Karcusrd [7k\]: W will go from corner to corner now
]
;B[dq]BL[4634.634]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: hehe, a true fighter!
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: it doesn't care if white cuts
]
;W[bq]WL[5203.854]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: that's cool
Karcusrd [7k\]: L15
ZenChocobo [-\]: you really like this program dont you eternal?
]
;B[cm]BL[4583.582]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo for US president '08
pasky [1d\]: ho ho
apagis [3d\]: how big is MoGo's code ?
elohimmeth [1k\]: wow!
]
;W[en]WL[5195.834]C[pasky [1d\]: w wanna peaceful life in corner
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: let me check that
teytaud [-\]: mogo thinks he has 81% of probability of winning now :-)
jnr [-\]: apagis huge ^^
elohimmeth [1k\]: bot kendine geldi
peterchris [3k\]: lapinblanc: did you write gogui?
apagis [3d\]: i guess :)
flippant [5k\]: it would be cool to see a heat map of what territory mogo expects to get
jeffywhite [6k\]: mogo is an idiot
jnr [-\]: apagis trust me ^^
kyu30dummy: don't keep insisting that robots think
]
;B[dm]BL[4531.357]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: lol
pasky [1d\]: flippant, i don't think you can actually do that one
]
;W[br]WL[5190.181]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: kyu30 youre funny
ZenChocobo [-\]: you hate robots?
flippant [5k\]: why not?
mstarsup5 [-\]: b6
flippant [5k\]: doesn't it score the end result of its playouts?
DimSum [7k\]: jeffy, it may be an idiot but it can give you a few stones handi and win
ZenChocobo [-\]: youre like will smith in I, Robot
pasky [1d\]: yes, but each of the playouts can end up very differently
Warfreak2 [3d\]: some day when robots want equal rights, kyu30dummy will be the kind of neo-con who wants to keep oppressing them
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 62218 lines of code
peterchris [3k\]: mogo tenuki
jeffywhite [6k\]: it still thinks it owns bottom right corner
eternalkyu [2k\]: what? how strong do you think he is then?
Karcusrd [7k\]: time for T corner soon
jeffywhite [6k\]: and yes i could win
jnr [-\]: but E4 ....
flippant [5k\]: yes, but you can still average them and get a heatmap
jeffywhite [6k\]: i would just have to make  loose ladder
godork [?\]: how strong is mogo?
]
;B[bn]BL[4477.436]
;W[ao]WL[5185.396]C[mstarsup5 [-\]: heh
gobrobo [13k\]: 42
pasky [1d\]: godork, watch this game
teytaud [-\]: 82%...
NicoRobin [4d\]: 82 nice
GoteGoat [-\]: seki!
eternalkyu [2k\]: well it's impossible to tell against 8p
suzuchan [1d\]: count down starts
mstarsup5 [-\]: don't tenuki, don't tenuki...
godork [?\]: pasky, im doing other things, screw that, how strong is mogo?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo is strong enough to realise that w capturing f5 doesn't make an eye
elohimmeth [1k\]: c2 b14
DimSum [7k\]: haha
apagis [3d\]: oh 60 000 lines for such a programis seems big yes
GuuChan [1k\]: damn stubborn bot
Karcusrd [7k\]: W let bot get strenth
pasky [1d\]: godork: what kind of answer do you expect to get?
DimSum [7k\]: why are so many people against the bot?
]
;B[cf]BL[4422.387]C[jnr [-\]: aie
]
;W[bf]WL[5180.99]C[godork [?\]: one with a number followed by a d
pasky [1d\]: godork: and where would one pull that number out of?
DimSum [7k\]: is human dignity at stake or something?
GlebD [3d\]: dim because the most peopel don't want a computer to be bether than themself
mstarsup5 [-\]: hmmm
DimSum [7k\]: ah i see
maakuu [4k\]: LapinBlanc, with or without comments etc?
godork [?\]: FIGURE IT OUT DAMMIT!!
DimSum [7k\]: thanks gleb
jeffywhite [6k\]: dim sum did you watch the last game
godork [?\]: lol
Koffein [1k\]: godork, rank doesnt matter ,,, NEVER
GlebD [3d\]: i want the bot to win it would be fun
Javaness [-\]: Please behave
peterchris [3k\]: lapinblanc: did you write gogui?
DimSum [7k\]: i want it to be better than me
NicoRobin [4d\]: anumberd
flippant [5k\]: mogo is around 1k
mstarsup5 [-\]: actually it's true that there are bigger points on the board, but it's still big E4 :/
Lestat1337 [?\]: “It played really well,” said Kim, who estimated MoGo’s current strength at “two or maybe three dan,”
Rocker [4d\]: mogo is not like a bot it plays too slow!
alpena [1d\]: quit insulting the bot, it has feelings too
teytaud [-\]: fillpant: much more than that, with this hardware.
]
;B[bg]BL[4365.708]C[sdsdfsdf: what is MoGo coded in?
donte5 [4k\]: this bots strong i think
mstarsup5 [-\]: c++
]
;W[dc]WL[5168.068]C[gobrobo [13k\]: perl
Ribbon [7k\]: java
mstarsup5 [-\]: ...
youth [5k\]: fortran
pasky [1d\]: apl
TDK [9k\]: brainf*
dare [4k\]: c++?
Koffein [1k\]: batch
mstarsup5 [-\]: it's in c++ sdsdf
youth [5k\]: sorry, it's actually lisp
dare [4k\]: heh
sdsdfsdf: mstar: thanks
flippant [5k\]: tey: what would you estimate
DimSum [7k\]: cobol
aussiemate [6k\]: bots have no feelings
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Too many geeks arround
peterchris [3k\]: mogo is part of emacs?
Karcusrd [7k\]: MoGo is also fixing up some beer and crackers on the side
ZenChocobo [-\]: hiyo my kind of bot
flippant [5k\]: M-x C-x mogo
Daan [6k\]: you fool it's in html
kensho [5k\]: What does it matter if computers beats players. Matters not at all. In all likelyhood it will improve the game of Go, raising it a notch the overall understanding
]
;B[cg]BL[4307.431]C[Tobamf [3k?\]: white has used almost 4 minutes
dare [4k\]: c++ is tone of the only programming languages i even know of
dare [4k\]: one*
]
;W[ec]WL[5152.836]C[maakuu [4k\]: "what is a programming language?"
alpena [1d\]: this is like watching a bad batch of paint dry
eternalkyu [2k\]: one of the only?
DimSum [7k\]: does bad paint dry slower?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: MoGo is quite happy with the position
dare [4k\]: yes... i know java as well lol
tsiki [1d\]: MoGo must be pretty optimistic now
GuuChan [1k\]: (the ++ in C++ is just a layer of bloat over C, just to make it less programmer-friendly and less performance-friendly)
eternalkyu [2k\]: one of the few, then?
]
;B[cc]BL[4248.457]C[mandelbrot [2k\]: can b live in lower right corner?
flippant [5k\]: hey at least c++ doesn't have malloc
]
;W[cd]WL[5146.769]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: bottom left corner dead? 
GuuChan [1k\]: it does have malloc
ZenChocobo [-\]: hahah jk!!!!!!!!!!
peterchris [3k\]: my c++ does
Zharf [5k?\]: flippant, it does
flippant [5k\]: well you dont have to use it ;-)
eternalkyu [2k\]: but at the same time stronger :)
GuuChan [1k\]: AND another alloc/free scheme
aussiemate [6k\]: see, Bots can feel happiness
Demi [1k\]: bottom left corner alive
GuuChan [1k\]: and both schemes are incompatible
vavoysh [6k\]: SE is interesting
GuuChan [1k\]: just to make things easy
pasky [1d\]: oh yeah, let's argue about c vs c++ since that's by far so most interesting topic now
Ribbon [7k\]: what you have against malloc? if you so worried about memory management, go to java or C#
ZenChocobo [-\]: the most bots feel is aknowleding reward
flippant [5k\]: good point pasky
dare [4k\]: ,,,
aussiemate [6k\]: SE is infallible
Tobamf [3k?\]: One call also use D, instead of C++
ZenChocobo [-\]: acknowleding*
Warfreak2 [3d\]: malloc is a pagan god, who demands bit sacrifice
Demi [1k\]: the problem with D is the lack of any libraries for it
]
;B[bc]BL[4187.885]C[GlebD [3d\]: c2 is sente for b isn't it? 
Tobamf [3k?\]: it's a new language
Tobamf [3k?\]: that's bound to be a problem
]
;W[ed]WL[5135.325]C[dare [4k\]: blegh
dare [4k\]: stop it
TDK [9k\]: i think mogo is a 500 char perl golf gone bad.
ZenChocobo [-\]: .....
kyu30dummy: procedural languages are a thing of antiquity
ZenChocobo [-\]: whats that
GoteGoat [-\]: scrubalubtub
ZenChocobo [-\]: tdkl
GlebD [3d\]: O.o
sdsdfsdf: wrong question to ask, huh?
NicoRobin [4d\]: anyone got a %win now?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: already gone bad if you couldn't get it any shorter than 500 characters. all good software can be written in under 300
peterchris [3k\]: uh oh for mo go
sosuddenly [-\]: gotegoat= goatcheese?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 83%
Rocker [4d\]: why mogo not kill b2!!!!!!????
NicoRobin [4d\]: heh getting more confident, nice
]
;B[de]BL[4126.111]C[Demi [1k\]: if I were to write a go bot I'd surely write in in D
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: upper left is bigger
]
;W[bb]WL[5131.074]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: because it doesn't need to yet, rocker
horos22 [4k\]: I think w is alive lower lef
TDK [9k\]: it's 500 cause it's also a japh.
horos22 [4k\]: left
Oroth [7k\]: lapinBlanc are you sure your not just incrementing an arbitrary starting number every turn for fun? :-)
tsiki [1d\]: how would you go about killing b2?
GlebD [3d\]: rocker does he can it ?
GuuChan [1k\]: LapinBlanc : what are the stats you give ? overall cluster load ?
flippant [5k\]: it makes sense for its estimates to keep rising
flippant [5k\]: until some tactical surprise moves inside its horizon
pasky [1d\]: i can has kill ur gruop
Karcusrd [7k\]: MoGo get corner?
GlebD [3d\]: i don't see how to kill the b2
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: The problem with D is to make it run on a supercomputer.
Warfreak2 [3d\]: b5 b4 b7 kills b2
Rocker [4d\]: mogo teach some harsh lesson for 8p, pls
Daan [6k\]: oh, i did a tsumego like this
Warfreak2 [3d\]: sacrifice e5, it's only a false eye
GlebD [3d\]: lol
tsiki [1d\]: b5 b4 b7 e4 
Warfreak2 [3d\]: then e3
tsiki [1d\]: hmm, ok
GlebD [3d\]: not realy because the 2 is allowed to play to
]
;B[cb]BL[4063.154]C[hohoho [12k\]: y 8 P only giving 7 stones?
]
;W[ac]WL[5128.624]C[dare [4k\]: MoGoTiTan: Sorry, i am a computer program. I cannot talk.
GlebD [3d\]: the b
Warfreak2 [3d\]: because mogo won on 9 stones already
mandelbrot [2k\]: mogo does not need more
hohoho [12k\]: mogo that strong?
vavoysh [6k\]: mogo won a month ago with 9 stones by 1.5 and 3.5 points. they mus thave really changed some of the code to have suddenly increased it
Karcusrd [7k\]: W needs to go into L15
kensho [5k\]: Mogo the underdog
]
;B[ab]BL[3998.135]
;W[aa]WL[5124.948]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: no need to change the code if you give it more processing power
vavoysh [6k\]: On August 7th, 2008, MoGo won a 19x19 game vs. Kim MyungWan 8p with MoGo receiving a 9 stone handicap. MoGo won by 1.5 points. Mr. Kim used around 13 minutes of time while MoGo took around 55; however, he felt that using more time would not have helped him win. MoGo was run from the Netherlands on an 800 node supercomputer, which contained 4 cores per node with each core running at 4.7 GHz to produce 15 Teraflops.[12\] MyungWan and MoGo played a total of 4 games of varying handicaps and time limits, each side winning two games. The game records are accessible on KGS where MoGo played as MogoTitan.
eternalkyu [2k\]: it plays very passive and boring, making it very difficult to beat in handicap
vavoysh [6k\]: quoted from wikipedia
peterchris [3k\]: mogo tenuki now
Ribbon [7k\]: maybw upgraded the machine
Warfreak2 [3d\]: also, if it's able to win on 9 stones, it doesn't necessarily have to get stronger to win on 7
Nyanjilla [-\]: vavoysh---please dont flood that again
flippant [5k\]: mogo doesn't try to win by large amounts, so even if it's dominating it will slack off and only win by 2
Warfreak2 [3d\]: i'm pretty sure i could win against you if i was black and had nine stones, and i wouldn't have to get any better to then reduce the handicap to 7
]
;B[bo]BL[3931.948]C[dare [4k\]: i wonder how they program it?
]
;W[bp]WL[5121.072]C[gobrobo [13k\]: vavyosh - interesting, thanks
eternalkyu [2k\]: I think he means that it only won with 1.5 pointsm warfeak
CBlue [5d?\]: hmm the bot's moves seem pretty bad atm
CBlue [5d?\]: strange
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: The version of MoGo running today is quite stronger than last time
Warfreak2 [3d\]: if i took my time i could win by exactly 1.5 each time, too ;-)
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: It uses the supercomputer communication better
ZenChocobo [-\]: prove it
eternalkyu [2k\]: but not mogo :)
TDK [9k\]: i bet i could lose by more than 1.5 pts to you :)
jnr [-\]: E4 
hohoho [12k\]: maybe it's not mogo controlling the score
hohoho [12k\]: it's the pro
peterchris [3k\]: lapinblanc: did you write gogui?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: and MoGo plays very bad with high handicap, so if you decrease the handi, it plays stronger :)
sdsdfsdf: LapinBlanc: how do you measure its strength?
mandelbrot [2k\]: mogo likes to win by 0.5
]
;B[bm]BL[3864.092]
;W[ep]WL[5118.969]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: lap would you answer the man?!?!?!?
mstarsup5 [-\]: the bottom left can die it seems
ddoshay [7k?\]: What does Mogo think the percentages are now?
jnr [-\]: I play like a 8p ^^
Warfreak2 [3d\]: here it comes
CBlue [5d?\]: as long as it doesnt sacrifice e5 now^^
mstarsup5 [-\]: C2
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: still 83%
eternalkyu [2k\]: 83, so it's grown even more
Tobamf [3k?\]: no, e5 must be sacrificed
jnr [-\]: you play like a bot mstarsup5 ? XD
Rocker [4d\]: why only myungwan plays the bot ? not other pros? is he .....cheaper ??
Tobamf [3k?\]: or the computer go world will be overturned
arpad [-\]: you can't trust the probability with this much handicap
CBlue [5d?\]: oO
horos22 [4k\]: c2 then e3
horos22 [4k\]: e3
]
;B[fo]BL[3795.566]C[mstarsup5 [-\]: then e2
]
;W[eq]WL[5115.783]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: the problem with the bot seems to be that its over confident in situations when it should fear the result of the game
mstarsup5 [-\]: arg
jnr [-\]: ouch
Warfreak2 [3d\]: this way is enough for mogo to win
Warfreak2 [3d\]: no matter
ddoshay [7k?\]: MyungWan is not being paid. He is one of the few pros that will volunteer for this out of interest
eternalkyu [2k\]: maybe enjoys the development of computers or something
horos22 [4k\]: sigh
Blah619 [12k\]: MoGoTiTan is a bot? =O
dare [4k\]: yes
ZenChocobo [-\]: har har
dare [4k\]: and blah resign our game
mstarsup5 [-\]: it's still leading, but killing the whole group would have been better :p
hohoho [12k\]: so wait since mogo only taking 7 stones therefore he is 1P ?
ZenChocobo [-\]: haha
GoteGoat [-\]: ..
BreatheGo [3k\]: no...
eternalkyu [2k\]: cute :)
Blah619 [12k\]: lol k dare
jnr [-\]: not bad for black
Chrille [4k\]: 1p to 8p is not 7 stones
BreatheGo [3k\]: pros are usually one or two stones from each other
]
;B[ca]BL[3727.039]C[Ukasuhs [2k\]: not even
BreatheGo [3k\]: from best to worst
dare [4k\]: 1p 8p is like 5 points komi
]
;W[db]WL[5110.842]C[peterchris [3k\]: wow that was brilliant
jnr [-\]: aji keshi
Demon [1d\]: depends on the 1p and 8p
kensho [5k\]: Wan will win this
ZenChocobo [-\]: i dont understand the concept that mogo has behind that move
dare [4k\]: ty blah
flippant [5k\]: wan hasn't even spent 5 minutes yet
brane [2d\]: what is the point of computer go anyway?
Demi [1k\]: mogo does a lot of moves like that
jeffywhite [6k\]: it cant read
Demi [1k\]: pointlessly wastes ko threats
BreatheGo [3k\]: it cannot read locally
peterchris [3k\]: k15
dare [4k\]: that's what makes it awesome though
flippant [5k\]: it prefers to keep bad things out of its horizon
peterchris [3k\]: or L15
flippant [5k\]: so it makes meaningless forcing moves
jeffywhite [6k\]: it dosnt understand the meaning of a ko threat
Oroth [7k\]: maybe the move is based on the premise that its really good if w plays elsewhere after
]
;B[je]BL[3659.159]
;W[ke]WL[5104.174]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo's horizon is the end of the game
Javaness [-\]: big
eternalkyu [2k\]: it's sente :)
mstarsup5 [-\]: big move!
ice9407 [5k\]: so long the pro has taken 5 min, the computer almost 30, so the computer will start to playing badly as time run
flippant [5k\]: no, mogo has a real horizon
flippant [5k\]: because of the UCT
TDK [9k\]: seems like these various approaches really need combining with mogo.
hohoho [12k\]: taisha>>>>
hohoho [12k\]: ?
mstarsup5 [-\]: i'd even say huge move!
eternalkyu [2k\]: it won't run out
hohoho [12k\]: is this taisha??
Rocker [4d\]: someone long ago stated that MoGo is sttrong enough to know taking e5 doesnt make an eye ,  what is this??
brane [2d\]: is the computer go means ai?
Chrille [4k\]: does he take this game seriously, playing this fast?
BreatheGo [3k\]: he does
eternalkyu [2k\]: I agree, rocker, I think he just didn't read far enough :)
eternalkyu [2k\]: he being mogo
]
;B[kf]BL[3590.984]C[Vistani [2k\]: he can think during mogo's time too lol
]
;W[le]WL[5100.278]C[jnr [-\]: ouch
BreatheGo [3k\]: he probably reads during computer's time
Chrille [4k\]: no way!
peterchris [3k\]: mogo will sac N16
dare [4k\]: it's funny because in janice kim's book learn to play go, she says "it's impossible for computers to play go because of the massive amount of possible moves
eternalkyu [2k\]: he should
dare [4k\]: she kind of ate her words
TDK [9k\]: it was probably true at the time
ZenChocobo [-\]: shes awesome tho
Ibu [3k\]: does mogo work during opponents time?
hohoho [12k\]: her books are awesome
ddoshay [7k?\]: yes
inte [?\]: the argument works just as well for humans
gobrobo [13k\]: when was it written dare?
jeffywhite [6k\]: that was written in 1994
jeffywhite [6k\]: dare
]
;B[be]BL[3522.837]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: that would improve it a lot if it did
]
;W[da]WL[5093.961]C[gobrobo [13k\]: then it was indeed very true at the time
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: MoGo is back to 80%
ZenChocobo [-\]: she cashed in a major poker tourney which made me respect her that much more
peterchris [3k\]: m14
dare [4k\]: lapin where do you get this information
flippant [5k\]: does it finally realize it's losing c18?
NicoRobin [4d\]: hoho mogo starting to get the fear
jnr [-\]: from the screen in from of him ^^
jnr [-\]: *front
gobrobo [13k\]: next move: b repeatedly plays b19 and crashes
eternalkyu [2k\]: from*?
ZenChocobo [-\]: Myung!!!!!! dont play c15!!!!!!!!!!!!!
peterchris [3k\]: mogo ironically may play better after that stupid move in top left before, because at least it's not thinking about it any more.
]
;B[qc]BL[3454.583]C[Karcusrd [7k\]: lol
Javaness [-\]: ...
jnr [-\]: lol
ShihChing [6k\]: I'd like to see a visualization of MoGo's variation trees -- like Joshua in WarGames..
jnr [-\]: not mogo like move
FlameBlade [3d\]: mogo:  I'm winning
jeffywhite [6k\]: hey
hohoho [12k\]: y r 17 not r3?
mstarsup5 [-\]: hmmm i wouldn't have played this, but actually it's not so stupid
jeffywhite [6k\]: i loved that movie shihching
ZenChocobo [-\]: quiet flame, mogo would kick your butt!
arpad [-\]: i like this move
ZenChocobo [-\]: :D
mstarsup5 [-\]: it secures points against a stronger opponent
]
;W[rn]WL[5055.615]C[FlameBlade [3d\]: no, I'm just saying what mogo is saying :)
dare [4k\]: flameblade where comes this ability to talk to mogo
flippant [5k\]: just type /mogo followed by your question
hohoho [12k\]: r3 secures too
eternalkyu [2k\]: hehe
flippant [5k\]: then mogo will answer it
hohoho [12k\]: y not r3 then
TDK [9k\]: it's his telepathic gift
ZenChocobo [-\]: omg.....flameblade is a vein for the words og mogo!!!
jeffywhite [6k\]: wargames was an awesome movie
eternalkyu [2k\]: r3 would've been worse
dare [4k\]: no flippant, just no
mstarsup5 [-\]: now M14
FlameBlade [3d\]: fine.
FlameBlade [3d\]: mogo:  this pro very strong
mstarsup5 [-\]: (please mogo, M14 *_* )
ZenChocobo [-\]: lol
TDK [9k\]: lower right corner l&d status?
Ukasuhs [2k\]: q4 dead
Pascal3000 [18k\]: /mogo does flippant fail Mogo: Yes
mstarsup5 [-\]: B dead in the lower right
]
;B[jf]BL[3386.275]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: ohno...
]
;W[me]WL[5048.45]C[ShihChing [6k\]: B sacked a corner in the last 9h game too..
jnr [-\]: solid
vavoysh [6k\]: the results of the 9 handi games were 2-2
eternalkyu [2k\]: maybe that's a strategy that he has?
dare [4k\]: black's winning still?
mandelbrot [2k\]: there was only one serious game, and mogo won
Ribbon [7k\]: haha, i just took a closer look at mogo
hohoho [12k\]: what was the ladder game earlier?
mstarsup5 [-\]: dare: yes
Ribbon [7k\]: i found this kinki parameter
Ribbon [7k\]: -pondering 1 : enabling pondering (thinking while you are thinking).
hohoho [12k\]: y play ladder when no ladder?
tsiki [1d\]: what's the % now? i think w gained a lot here
ZenChocobo [-\]: maybe thats why w plays so fast
]
;B[ne]BL[3318.397]C[LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 80%
Rocker [4d\]: is b winng?
ZenChocobo [-\]: to not allow mogo that much thinking time
Warfreak2 [3d\]: vovoysh, the results were mogo lost two blitz games on 9 stones, won a game on 13 stones, and won the main event which was a slow game on 9 stones
]
;W[nf]WL[5036.993]C[peterchris [3k\]: 80 % means nothing b/c black still believes owns bottom rt corner
Warfreak2 [3d\]: i expect mogo to win this game
eternalkyu [2k\]: how sure are you?
Ribbon [7k\]: also, how mogo resigns:
CBlue [5d?\]: b still leading by 10..15 maybe?
TDK [9k\]: i wanna see it on 3x30 byo for comparison :)
Ribbon [7k\]: -minNumberOfSimulationsOfResign xx : minimum number of simulation before considering resign
ZenChocobo [-\]: wanna bet thirty bucks?
sdsdfsdf: LapinBlanc: is mogo's judgement of win probabilty well calibrated?
firefox04 [3k?\]: who is mogo?
ZenChocobo [-\]: omg
Ribbon [7k\]: lol
]
;B[nd]BL[3250.454]C[ZenChocobo [-\]: eastern persian pro fire
CBlue [5d?\]: i think w will win, since it's still relatively early on
hohoho [12k\]: can i buy mogo
BreatheGo [3k\]: mogo is FREE
arpad [-\]: the probability is of course based on the fact that the two players are of same level
America [1k\]: mogo is strong amateur from technoland
Demi [1k\]: hohoho, you can download it
]
;W[mg]WL[5019.16]C[Pascal3000 [18k\]: buy a supercomputer first
BreatheGo [3k\]: or  800 regular computers
gobrobo [13k\]: or hack the grid
Karcusrd [7k\]: MoGo like caps No
Pascal3000 [18k\]: =D
CBlue [5d?\]: b's lead isnt much, and w is more solid
TDK [9k\]: regular won't cut it, with the lag
Pascal3000 [18k\]: mogo on the grid would be sick
Warfreak2 [3d\]: it may be early but mogo already started endgame
mstarsup5 [-\]: P14.... :)
ZenChocobo [-\]: mogos like "*bleep* thats my *bleep*ing territory"
tiger32k [9k\]: MoGo 9x9? super powerfull? undefeatable?
Pascal3000 [18k\]: ask cern if they want to test it
Pascal3000 [18k\]: grid + mogo
FlameBlade [3d\]: yeah, put mogo in LHC
]
;B[lc]BL[3182.547]C[flippant [5k\]: that would destroy the go universe
Pascal3000 [18k\]: shut up :P
]
;W[lb]WL[5011.435]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: I think someone said mogo is 3d on 9x9
abqMichael [8k\]: he WAS in LHC when he played that ladder last game
TDK [9k\]: only 3d?
teytaud [-\]: 81%
ZenChocobo [-\]: l16?
BreatheGo [3k\]: hes 3d on 19x 19
BreatheGo [3k\]: mogo
Pascal3000 [18k\]: im serious, combining him with the grid would be fucking powerfull
eternalkyu [2k\]: I certainly don't expect him to beat stronger than that either
peterchris [3k\]: mogo always lets opponent make romeo & juliet cut in one place
GoteGoat [-\]: a 1d can beat a 9pm on 9x9
Ukasuhs [2k\]: unkess theres a ladder... then hes 45kyu
Ribbon [7k\]: mogo is a cyborg
Demi [1k\]: watch your tongue pascal3000
tiger32k [9k\]: so....if hes 3d on this board why the 7 handi?
ryot [11k\]: Demi!!!! :D
TDK [9k\]: that's hard. i can't even see my tongue
hohoho [12k\]: watch ur keyboard 
eternalkyu [2k\]: oh, I think that's the first admin I've seen with a rank
ryot [11k\]: Play Touhou with me!!!!
BreatheGo [3k\]: omg bold font!
flippant [5k\]: why does mogo play with large handis against 8p's instead of matches against 3ds
Ukasuhs [2k\]: 3d take 7 stones against pros
Ukasuhs [2k\]: esp 8p
]
;B[qf]BL[3114.38]
;W[jd]WL[5006.698]C[hohoho [12k\]: WATCH your keyboard
kensho [5k\]: What is a romeo and juliet cut?
dare [4k\]: so mogo is 3d?
Ukasuhs [2k\]: probably more than 7 for myungwan would be more appropriate
Demi [1k\]: eternalkyu, a lot of admins don't use their admin accounts for playing
jeffywhite [6k\]: how do you make bold text
peterchris [3k\]: romeo and juliet is when two groups are cut by snake but snake is not cut
Ribbon [7k\]: maybe alot of admins are sandbaggers in their free time :)))
TDK [9k\]: nah, fake 9d's :)
eternalkyu [2k\]: and escapers, I bet!
tiger32k [9k\]: you put a ! in front of it jeffywhite
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: MoGo has a very high confidence in the win, so it doesn't try to kill Kim
hohoho [12k\]: how do u become admin?
tiger32k [9k\]: but only if you are an admin or room owner
ZenChocobo [-\]: throught the test of FIRE!!
]
;B[qk]BL[3046.238]C[DimSum [7k\]: hohoho, you just wait till they ask you
Ribbon [7k\]: whats the % now?
teytaud [-\]: 81.2%
CBlue [5d?\]: hm now b is playing so solidly, maybe it can keep its advantage :-p
turingtest [3k?\]: solid...
TDK [9k\]: Kim?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 82
DimSum [7k\]: the worst thing you can do is ask to be admin
ZenChocobo [-\]: r9? comeon even a newb wouldnt play that
]
;W[rl]WL[4986.36]C[smelly [6k\]: so can humans reach 3d by using monte carlo sampling?
tiger32k [9k\]: what is this % you guys keep talking about?
hohoho [12k\]: dimsum can i eat some dimsum>?
Ibu [3k\]: what does the % means?
mstarsup5 [-\]: difficult for W to win now
flippant [5k\]: sure, if you do 5000 simulations per move
ryot [11k\]: Why does MoGo take so long? Is  it actaully a THINKING bot? :O
teytaud [-\]: 82% of probability of winning, according to mogo
turingtest [3k?\]: how many stones per second can a human throw on a go board ?
hohoho [12k\]: where does it say
hohoho [12k\]: that
kensho [5k\]: yes it is thinking...
tiger32k [9k\]: how do you get that info?
kyu30dummy: %  means percentage
flippant [5k\]: maybe 2 stones per second
Ribbon [7k\]: mogo is thinking he is winning
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 82 is huge...
Toge [4k\]: Isn't winning probability estimators just bad design if it influences bot's decisions? One of the advices given for weaker players in handicap games is that to not play passively.
DimSum [7k\]: what is this 82?
eternalkyu [2k\]: what if we would set 10 different mogo's next to eachother for this board position? would it tell us the same winning percentage and would it make the same move?
TDK [9k\]: % means zero divided by zero, which is undefined.
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: so mogo plays some very secure moves, because it thinks it will win anyway
]
;B[nm]BL[2978.059]C[pasky [1d\]: toge, it's the best design that works currently
]
;W[mm]WL[4976.275]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: toge, if you take away the winning probability estimator from mogo, it does absolutely nothing
inte [?\]: eternalkyu, but that's because they won't learn much from their games then
Ribbon [7k\]: no Toge, he is looking up a tree when deciding a move, and that branch has 82% winning games and 18% loosing games
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo is a winning probability estimator, it chooses the move with the highest estimated winning probability
Rocker [4d\]: punish it
flippant [5k\]: maybe instead of winning probability, you could use margin of victory
pasky [1d\]: that's been tried
Ukasuhs [2k\]: how low does the % have to be for a res?
mstarsup5 [-\]: hmmm
DimSum [7k\]: Ribbon, i went to that link that's in your info
Ribbon [7k\]: its not an estimation of score
DimSum [7k\]: the review is very funny
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Computer do not care about the score
TDK [9k\]: pasky: and it was worse?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: margin of victory is a very kyu concept
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: they just care about wining
Ribbon [7k\]: its statistic data
pasky [1d\]: i think that was actually what mogo itself did originally
Harleqin [3d\]: that has been tried and the results were very bad
Karcusrd [7k\]: W should force this bot to cap a stone
pasky [1d\]: and it was worse
dare [4k\]: *slaps warfreak* you are not far from kyu
jnr [-\]: N6 ?
Ribbon [7k\]: statistics of each tree
mstarsup5 [-\]: i hope mogo doesn't get tricked by this move :'(
]
;B[mn]BL[2910.205]C[FlameBlade [3d\]: .5 result, and 50 points result...win is a win.
jnr [-\]: ^^
Warfreak2 [3d\]: who cares what the score is when there is victory at stake
]
;W[ln]WL[4972.073]C[CBlue [5d?\]: b+15 still
mstarsup5 [-\]: arg
Warfreak2 [3d\]: dare, your slap is rejected
dare [4k\]: it bounced off your dan-shield?
TDK [9k\]: maybe too high win's gobble up the 90% losses in that subtree
Warfreak2 [3d\]: better luck next time
dare [4k\]: flamebalde slap him!
FlameBlade [3d\]: no
FlameBlade [3d\]: no reason to do that
TDK [9k\]: which sucks, because like this all that info is thrown away
Rocker [4d\]: mogo will play o6
eternalkyu [2k\]: I think it's so lame to win by less than 30, I always try to kill something big if I lead with less than that
dare [4k\]: you don't want to kill him i take it?
mstarsup5 [-\]: looks bad for mogo this sequence :(
flippant [5k\]: how about a hybrid - if your prob of win is over 80%, then start going for probability-of-winning-by-more-than-5
flippant [5k\]: et cetera
CBlue [5d?\]: mogo just mustnt lose its grip now^^
hohoho [12k\]: B is losing now?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: that's still a stupid strategy, flippant
CBlue [5d?\]: B still ahead by 10-15
Rocker [4d\]: cut!!!!!
pasky [1d\]: flippant: yes, that's currently researched, we call it "dynamic komi"
]
;B[lm]BL[2842.245]C[flippant [5k\]: heh
CBlue [5d?\]: but he shouldnt mess up this sequence
]
;W[ml]WL[4969.761]C[Rocker [4d\]: ok
Warfreak2 [3d\]: why would i choose the move that is most likely to win by more than 5 when that move is an overplay and i only deserve to win by 3
mstarsup5 [-\]: M8.. :/
mstarsup5 [-\]: only move now :/
flippant [5k\]: great, i get simultaneously told "thats stupid" by warfreak and "that's current research" by pasky ;-)
Rocker [4d\]: atari then connect
DimSum [7k\]: haha
Ribbon [7k\]: warfrak,its not looking at the score
ShihChing [6k\]: If Myung loses, and uses so little time.. what can be done -- have to use your time.
Ribbon [7k\]: it doesnt care by how much it wins
pasky [1d\]: flippant: researched == we have no idea how well it actually works
pasky [1d\]: but it's relatively popular idea in computer go community
CBlue [5d?\]: not a contradiction? :-p
flippant [5k\]: so who here is part of the mogo team
eternalkyu [2k\]: yes, agreed, it could cause very wierd yose to think like that
tiger32k [9k\]: how do you know the winning % of mogo?
]
;B[mo]BL[2774.389]C[pasky [1d\]: *being researched :)
]
;W[lp]WL[4965.679]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: ribbon, if you tell it to look for the probability of winning by more than 5, which was flippant's suggestion, then you suddenly care about the winning margin
hohoho [12k\]: can mogo beat u regular dans?
peterchris [3k\]: my bot uses that strategy.  it's 21k
mstarsup5 [-\]: rocker:
teytaud [-\]: 81.4%
Warfreak2 [3d\]: who cares about winning by more than 5
mstarsup5 [-\]: oh
tiger32k [9k\]: how can you tell that teytuad?
mstarsup5 [-\]: no, i misread
pasky [1d\]: flippant: (I say "we" because I leisurely watch computer go developments and develop my own engine, but I'm not a mogo programmer :)
teytaud [-\]: tiger32k: i have the logs...
gobrobo [13k\]: Warfreak: *0.5
Rocker [4d\]: myung must have something else to do while playing such as watching tv or playing x box to maintain his focus
dare [4k\]: are pro ranks dished out to players by admins?
hohoho [12k\]: can mogo beats dans?
dare [4k\]: (to pro players)
Warfreak2 [3d\]: gobrobo, no, flippant specifically said 5
Demi [1k\]: dare, yes
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: the thing is, if you're pretty sure about winning, you might as well try to win by more *in case you overlooked something*, since your reading is not perfect
dare [4k\]: so they could randomly make me a 9p right now
FlameBlade [3d\]: no
]
;B[ll]BL[2705.899]C[DimSum [7k\]: no, admins do not give pro ranks to dans
Rocker [4d\]: no
]
;W[nl]WL[4960.603]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: pasky, put it this way
gobrobo [13k\]: oh sorry, missed that. my point still stands :)
FlameBlade [3d\]: you have to give certifications proving that you're a pro
flippant [5k\]: hey, i was just throwing it out there, it's just an interesting idea
DimSum [7k\]: that's one of the weirdest things i've read on kgs
ddoshay [7k?\]: MyungwanKim won the US Open
Rocker [4d\]: now mogo lost
Nyanjilla [-\]: DimSum.... yes, KGS does give pro ranks
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Winning percentage according to MoGo is still 81
Warfreak2 [3d\]: we're five moves away from the end of the game and we're going to win by 2, but i see a move that has a chance to win by 5. do i play the move that certainly wins by 2, or do i play the move with the highest probability of winning by 5?
CBlue [5d?\]: i think mogo is 1-2 kyu on kgs, but i dont know what computing power is behind those "normal" mogobots we see here daily. probably this mogo version is stronger since it runs on super computer?
pasky [1d\]: KGS-kiin
eternalkyu [2k\]: it gives? I want one, please!
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: I would like to see it drop
mof [1d?\]: give one to me then, 9p thanks, if it is ok.
flippant [5k\]: warfreak: you only do this if you're up by a lot
hohoho [12k\]: so if i am strong amatauer can i be given p rank in kgs
DimSum [7k\]: thank you nyan, but do the admins decide who is pro on kgs?
dare [4k\]: i didn't mean awarding them pro ranks, i meant assigning pro players accounts that have their ranks on them
Warfreak2 [3d\]: ah, but how do you measure "up by a lot"?
pasky [1d\]: lapinblanc: can you paste the sequence it assumes right now?
]
;B[ol]BL[2638.181]C[LapinBlanc [2d?\]: mogo plays very conservative when its win percentage is too high
GuuChan [1k\]: SE agrees with MoGo
Nyanjilla [-\]: the pro has to prove s/he's a pro elsewhere
TDK [9k\]: well, you're not certain anyway :)
DimSum [7k\]: i see
flippant [5k\]: if your estimate of win % is over 80%, then you're "up by a lot"
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo doesn't measure how far it's up by, it measures how likely it seems it will win
CBlue [5d?\]: b mustnt suffer another loss like this or his win is in serious jeopardy
teytaud [-\]: 81.6% according to mogo
DimSum [7k\]: that makes sense
Warfreak2 [3d\]: no, flippant
dare [4k\]: lapin are you one of the creators of mogo? i saw you played mogo a bunch of times
Warfreak2 [3d\]: completely wrong
Warfreak2 [3d\]: you can be 100% sure to win by 2 points
ryot [11k\]: P7? :D
eternalkyu [2k\]: good, warfreak speaks my words
]
;W[om]WL[4916.073]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: just faster :)
TDK [9k\]: maybe when there's only 10 possible moves left, yeah. but then the point is moot anyway
ryot [11k\]: ^_^
flippant [5k\]: it's not right 100% of the time
flippant [5k\]: it just might get around this problem of being too conservative when you're up
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: you can never be sure you win by 2 points
pasky [1d\]: that's sorta the point
eternalkyu [2k\]: I don't think that's a problem
hohoho [12k\]: y B play the dead stones?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: yes you can, pasky, just ask lee changho
Rocker [4d\]: mung feared he would get killed by a bot
eternalkyu [2k\]: you can, in late late yose
Ribbon [7k\]: maybe the pro finds those moves which results to the 20% of losing games in his tree
FlameBlade [3d\]: the point is learn how to play perfect yose :D
ryot [11k\]: I predicted a 8p's move!!! :D
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: but the bot is not lee chang ho strength
Karcusrd [7k\]: bot goes into coener now
flippant [5k\]: in late yose the uct tree will take care of it anyways
Warfreak2 [3d\]: no, pasky, that's not the point
Ribbon [7k\]: btw is mogo a he or she?
]
;B[nk]BL[2571.692]
;W[nn]WL[4912.723]C[Ribbon [7k\]: so is  it his tree or her tree?
hohoho [12k\]: mogo is an it
Ribbon [7k\]: ok...
TDK [9k\]: i hope it's a he, cause he runs on a she afaik.
eternalkyu [2k\]: hmm
hohoho [12k\]: its tree
dare [4k\]: lapinblanc is the creator?
pasky [1d\]: you are trying to design something around the fact that you make something perfect
pasky [1d\]: you're shooting for something "nice"
Warfreak2 [3d\]: no, i'm not
pasky [1d\]: dynamic komi admittely isn't that
Kantid [8k\]: you can't be sure to win 2 points, but you may be sure to win with 2.5 points
pasky [1d\]: but it's very pragmatic idea
hohoho [12k\]: i hope mogo annilhilate everything
pasky [1d\]: i think this handwaving doesn't have any point anyway - plenty of that already happened
pasky [1d\]: we need some hard data :)
CBlue [5d?\]: b+8 or something?
]
;B[er]BL[2507.139]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo already has great success being sure that it will win by a small margin, playing at the 3k level on kgs
]
;W[dr]WL[4909.523]C[peterchris [3k\]: white has to invade ... but how?
teytaud [-\]: still 81.2%...
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: sure, but 3k is not enough :)
dare [4k\]: mogo is only 3k?
Ribbon [7k\]: invade using the force of a pro
pasky [1d\]: of course you try to make it stronger and stronger
ryot [11k\]: I think a good white invasion would be....
Warfreak2 [3d\]: indeed it isn't, but you can improve the rank by giving it more processing power, rather than making it play for a bigger win
ZenChocobo [-\]: mogo weaker than 3k
ryot [11k\]: m9 l7 j6 h4 
pasky [1d\]: and part of that is looking at how many games it lost by playing too conservatively
TDK [9k\]: the tradeoff from winning by more to losing more likely seems bad anyway. should be another way to make it more aggressive.
peterchris [3k\]: k8 to try to get something going?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: playing for a bigger win is not the point of go
ryot [11k\]: (Ignore h4)
pasky [1d\]: and it turns out that this happens a lot in handicap games, or at least seems to
dare [4k\]: you sure zen? i couldn't give myung 7 handi.
Ribbon [7k\]: more ram, needs more ram
]
;B[mk]BL[2443.844]
;W[mp]WL[4906.155]C[Ribbon [7k\]: faster hd
hohoho [12k\]: mogo is stupid?
gobrobo [13k\]: hd?
Karcusrd [7k\]: MoGo says T1 corner i win game
ryot [11k\]: That invasion would be super sente :D
dare [4k\]: hd = harddisk
ZenChocobo [-\]: mog not stupid
CBlue [5d?\]: b should attack top group?
ZenChocobo [-\]: mogo is a bot
hohoho [12k\]: mogo is stupid
pasky [1d\]: warfreak, computing power alone does not improve fast enough for that argument to be practical, but surely now you're yourself aware that this is getting absurd
pasky [1d\]: "stop improving the algorithm, just wait for the computers to speed up"?
Uta [2k\]: so what will happen in the middle?
ZenChocobo [-\]: bots cant be stupid or smart they just are
otakon [16k\]: right
dare [4k\]: i love it when dans argue, it's so philisophical
Warfreak2 [3d\]: aiming for a bigger win is not improving the algorithm
flippant [5k\]: its possible the current algorithm will never handle fuseki well
eternalkyu [2k\]: I think the thing is the question if it really is an improvement
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: well, that's what our argument is all about
nolanryan [7k\]: you're missing the point warfreak
Warfreak2 [3d\]: aiming for a bigger win is a good way to ensure certain victory against a 10 kyu
flippant [5k\]: hey pasky do you work on any go bots yourself
LeonRios [12k\]: it can handle as patterns
nulllevel [1d\]: looking still ok for the bot
eternalkyu [2k\]: bah, I can just lean back and let warfreak do the talking
Karcusrd [7k\]: Bot secures terr in corner now
nolanryan [7k\]: mogo's evaluation of the win prob. is uncertain
cksmao [1d\]: What kind of game is this???
peterchris [3k\]: H18
pasky [1d\]: warfreak: I say it is, you say it isn't, now what we need is some actual hard data
CBlue [5d?\]: on what kind of pc is the normal kgs mogo bot running, anyone know?
GOerrilla [?\]: I think there's some magic to be done by White along the top
pasky [1d\]: flippant, http://repo.or.cz/w/pachi.git
cksmao [1d\]: Is this a pro vs computer?
Demi [1k\]: yes
Warfreak2 [3d\]: pasky, ask any strong go player and they will tell you it doesn't matter how much you win by, you should play the move that is the safest win
cksmao [1d\]: Pro must win then
ZenChocobo [-\]: omg some people have no common sense
cksmao [1d\]: is it???
dare [4k\]: 7 handi cksmao
Ribbon [7k\]: the safest win = highest winning probability
cksmao [1d\]: I see
Demi [1k\]: the pro lost the last time
mstarsup5 [-\]: mogo is taking its time on this move :)
ZenChocobo [-\]: hes taking a bathroom break
pasky [1d\]: warfreak2: actually, I agree with that
Oroth [7k\]: wonder if mogo will get into b
mstarsup5 [-\]: ah
Spinoza [2k\]: How exactly does mogo estimate the win probability of a certain move? does it "read" out thousands of sequences of moves with the brute force method or does that take too long? does it somehow select sequences to read? 
nulllevel [1d\]: normal endgame and b wins
Warfreak2 [3d\]: exactly, ribbon, mogo is the embodiment of play for the safest win
mstarsup5 [-\]: problem :(
Oroth [7k\]: byoyomi before w has used up half hour
dare [4k\]: same way SE works spinoza
bai [1k\]: nah, mogo got distracted by that cute female bot :P
TDK [9k\]: "hard data"? i'd really like to see how many parameters you could fiddle with in dynamic komi, but i'd say hard data would be hard to come by.
pasky [1d\]: warfreak2: but the idea is here that human's idea of "safest win" can be pretty different from UCT idea of "safest win", still
cksmao [1d\]: a lot of people actually bother to watch this LOL
teytaud [-\]: mogo comes back, sorry
Chrille [4k\]: safer to win by 50 than 0.5
peterchris [3k\]: mogo escaped
tonynogo [9k\]: lol
dicey [2k\]: lol
cksmao [1d\]: black leading so much now
pasky [1d\]: too bad, it loses a lot of pre-read sequences i suppose
pasky [1d\]: right?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: nonetheless, mogo fundamentally doesn't estimate the score, so it can't know if it's leading by a lot, it can only know how sure of winning it is
LeonRios [12k\]: white will win
nulllevel [1d\]: server problem ?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: a sure win and a big win are not the same thing at all
Karcusrd [7k\]: corner now for bot win
cksmao [1d\]: m12 finishes theproblem
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Something went wrong on the supercomputer
Ribbon [7k\]: cksmao, i think this bot can beat you in an even game
cksmao [1d\]: M12
nulllevel [1d\]: b is leading
MoGoTiTan [-\]: GTP Engine for MoGoTiTan (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
pasky [1d\]: welcome back \\o/
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: It's back
peterchris [3k\]: it's looking up bottom rt corner in kogo's.
Oroth [7k\]: wonder if mogo is cheating, playing offline so it can conserve its time :-)
cksmao [1d\]: ribbon I am not sure about that
jeffywhite [6k\]: 8p escaper
mstarsup5 [-\]: welcome back mogo :'(
GuuChan [1k\]: Bots have the right to segfault.
pasky [1d\]: that'd be pretty smart, oroth :)
GOerrilla [?\]: Was that a brain-fart by Mogo in the john?
Daan [6k\]: there is a grid computing project for go ?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: cksmao, i'd bet my student loan on the bot
jeffywhite [6k\]: w wins by time
]
;B[hr]BL[2204.873]C[TDK [9k\]: nah, this isn't going to end by time win.
Warfreak2 [3d\]: i don't think i could beat this mogo in an even game
peterchris [3k\]: pasky: there's your move at last
Ribbon [7k\]: i dont think the human will win by time, there is a time management routine for mogo
pasky [1d\]: yay :)
teytaud [-\]: still 81%
GOerrilla [?\]: Surely... the programmers thought to teach the bot to manage its clock... Surely!
]
;W[lh]WL[4874.886]C[Ribbon [7k\]: yes they did
mstarsup5 [-\]: L11
pasky [1d\]: well, with S.D., it's possible to make MoGo lose on time intentionally
Ukasuhs [2k\]: its playing slower in this game and last game it had 20:00 SD impretty sure
jeffywhite [6k\]: b will tenkui
pasky [1d\]: but let's assume the 8p won't do that ;)
Ribbon [7k\]: --totalTime xx : tells MoGo than the game will have a total length of xx seconds, and let MoGo manage the time
bai [1k\]: is endgame advantageous to the bot or the pro, I wonder
tsiki [1d\]: my guess would be the bot
gobrobo [13k\]: pasky: really, have you seen this happen?
LeonRios [12k\]: everything depends on how it was programed
dare [4k\]: i bet the bot
]
;B[jh]BL[2149.162]C[folmez [6k\]: bot
nulllevel [1d\]:  now b has a hard time
pasky [1d\]: gobrobo: many times
Oroth [7k\]: presumably bot, because it can play through more games
LeonRios [12k\]: so unless you read sourcecode
jnr [-\]: simple and solid
dare [4k\]: well i bet the bot at least is good at endgame
Warfreak2 [3d\]: to the bot, because at that point it cannot lose a won game
eternalkyu [2k\]: I'd say the pro
LeonRios [12k\]: nobody will know
GOerrilla [?\]: Logically, the yose will take exponentially less time to compute
mstarsup5 [-\]: nulllevel: no, B is leading
pasky [1d\]: gobrobo: that's why I switched from SD to 30:00+1x0:10
Ribbon [7k\]: endgame is advantageous to the bot, as there are less posible games to look up
]
;W[ki]WL[4852.358]C[GOerrilla [?\]: with each additional move
gobrobo [13k\]: pasky: wow. should be simple enough to prevent
teytaud [-\]: 82.2%
pasky [1d\]: yes, it is - don't use SD :)
gobrobo [13k\]: although maybe losing on time is more honorable than playing shitty :\\
gobrobo [13k\]: but why would a bot be concerned about that
eternalkyu [2k\]: well, maybe it's closer to the pro, but the pro will still win it imo
hohoho [12k\]: mogo sux
nulllevel [1d\]: lol
TDK [9k\]: how can it lose by time? just play the best move as a fallback?
Demi [1k\]: hohoho, but it can still beat you
]
;B[ir]BL[2095.294]C[GOerrilla [?\]: I agree... there;s some major reduction going on now
]
;W[ji]WL[4845.121]C[jnr [-\]: aie
folmez [6k\]: i bet on ori
mstarsup5 [-\]: aie
flippant [5k\]: hey pasky, you should put some comments on your functions ;-)
eternalkyu [2k\]: gobrobo, a bot isn't concerned about anything, but it's programmers might! :)
hohoho [12k\]: yup mogo still beats me but it still sux
hohoho [12k\]: lol
hohoho [12k\]: '
pasky [1d\]: flippant: the APIs are documented ;)
mstarsup5 [-\]: hmm
mstarsup5 [-\]: doesn't hurt much actually
bai [1k\]: someone should make a bot that talks ^^
Warfreak2 [3d\]: smarterchild
Karcusrd [7k\]: wow bot has 2 caps now
]
;B[ii]BL[2042.314]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: talks and taunts
maakuu [4k\]: like "ha ha ha! take this!"?
hohoho [12k\]: dont bots speak english?
]
;W[kk]WL[4831.005]C[hohoho [12k\]: hi how are you doing today?
eternalkyu [2k\]: more like... things that I can get banned for saying
nulllevel [1d\]: becomes close now, so mogo lost
hohoho [12k\]: my name is bot
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo has 400 processors right? can't they spare one of those processors to run eliza
peterchris [3k\]: i was going to say white J10
DimSum [7k\]: why did the bot bother capturing h3?
Harleqin [3d\]: nice tesuji
mandelbrot [2k\]: safe points
mstarsup5 [-\]: nulllevel: there is still a difference of about 30 points
Warfreak2 [3d\]: because it thinks it can win that way, dimsum, same reason it plays any move
pasky [1d\]: warfreak, unfortunately kgs bot interface is extremely restrictive
mstarsup5 [-\]: so no, mogo didn't lose yet...
]
;B[kj]BL[1991.202]
;W[lk]WL[4827.644]C[pasky [1d\]: i really wished for bots to have a way to report to the game etc.
eternalkyu [2k\]: ohno
nulllevel [1d\]: mogo lost for sure
pasky [1d\]: but wms doesn't want to implement that
GuuChan [1k\]: bai [1k\]: someone should make a bot that talks ^^  <----- there is a korean pc game called FunGo2000 which talks to you during game, and shows great smile or worry according to the situation
eternalkyu [2k\]: :)
Nick8a [3k\]: nice play by w
GuuChan [1k\]: but it doesn't play online :/
jnr [-\]: aie
DimSum [7k\]: i was just thinking that
jnr [-\]: aie
nulllevel [1d\]: mogo misread actually
Ribbon [7k\]: where can i get that FunGO2000?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Still 81 % chance winning according to MoGo 
hohoho [12k\]: mogo got 10000 computers
flippant [5k\]: pasky: line 49 in playout.c, "literarily" should be "literally". there now i helped
mstarsup5 [-\]: k8
peterchris [3k\]: black m11?
]
;B[li]BL[1940.812]C[LeonRios [12k\]: if somebody want a bot please feel free to program it !
pasky [1d\]: flippant, thanks :))
]
;W[km]WL[4817.932]C[mstarsup5 [-\]: arg
Ribbon [7k\]: blhe fungo costs money
CBlue [5d?\]: ouch^^
nulllevel [1d\]: poor bot
GuuChan [1k\]: Ribbon : I don't think it's sold anywhere anymore, but it must hang somewhere inside the intarwebz
GOerrilla [?\]: WALL-E
peterchris [3k\]: j9
eternalkyu [2k\]: I wonder one thing, why is this game sooooo late :( this will destroy my day
GOerrilla [?\]: E-VA
eternalkyu [2k\]: (I know the answer)
]
;B[jl]BL[1892.668]C[Oroth [7k\]: day? its 3am over here
]
;W[jm]WL[4809.245]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: its only 10
jeffywhite [6k\]: duh
jnr [-\]: aie
Warfreak2 [3d\]: 3AM here
jnr [-\]: aie
Chrille [4k\]: its only 4am
pasky [1d\]: b thinks it has too many points
datagram [4k\]: its 7 pm at cotsen, they played it after day of tournaments
gonewb [4k\]: how strong is the bot?
DimSum [7k\]: pro no dummy
peterchris [3k\]: hey it's 8pm here
Ukasuhs [2k\]: low dan
hohoho [12k\]: bot is pro
DimSum [7k\]: nah
nulllevel [1d\]: lol
pasky [1d\]: kgs ki-in pro
]
;B[kl]BL[1844.656]
;W[in]WL[4805.978]C[Ukasuhs [2k\]: its only really played against myungwan so its hard to put a rank on it
GOerrilla [?\]: Wan is playing like Captain Kirk now... getting the logic to run in circles around equivalent contingencies
tsiki [1d\]: that had to be a mistake
eternalkyu [2k\]: low dan? are you kidding me? low dan that fails at reading ladders? I want to play this low dan
wuwei [4k\]: poor bot
nulllevel [1d\]: so far away from
mstarsup5 [-\]: :'((((((((
Karcusrd [7k\]: this bots gone emotional now
wuwei [4k\]: back to the lab
jeffywhite [6k\]: bots are good at some thing and not other thing
nulllevel [1d\]: no emotion by bot
]
;B[il]BL[1798.608]C[Thmayu [3d\]: the bot is very good for a bot imo
nulllevel [1d\]: no way
]
;W[gn]WL[4797.77]C[GOerrilla [?\]: E-VA
Ribbon [7k\]: now whats teh % ^^
CBlue [5d?\]: b lost
GuuChan [1k\]: wow MoGo lost like 20-30 points in the center
GOerrilla [?\]: WALL-E
tsiki [1d\]: what's the %?
eternalkyu [2k\]: depressing
hohoho [12k\]: 1 percent
GuuChan [1k\]: MoGo's confidence in winning
Thmayu [3d\]: w will win
FlameBlade [3d\]: I think white will win
gonewb [4k\]: where do you see the %
]
;B[fn]BL[1753.659]C[hohoho [12k\]: W will lose with 1 % chance
GuuChan [1k\]: ask mogo :)
tsiki [1d\]: no i mean, what's the % of mogo's winning confidence
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: 78% now
vavoysh [6k\]: how do you calculate that stuff?
pasky [1d\]: oh, dropped a bit, eh? ;)
nulllevel [1d\]: argh
folmez [6k\]: how can you tell that
Ribbon [7k\]: for the lulz
GuuChan [1k\]: so much
noobette: e=mc²
pasky [1d\]: vavoysh: with a lot of logarithmical rulers
eternalkyu [2k\]: 78% is still very much
nulllevel [1d\]: f6 bad
jnr [-\]: G7
Warfreak2 [3d\]: if black wins f6 is not bad
nulllevel [1d\]: ok
hohoho [12k\]: can someone give me 25 stones handi plz
jnr [-\]: S10
nulllevel [1d\]: ur right
Ukasuhs [2k\]: if they had really good statisticians programming mogo, his play wont strt looking in any way desperate till about 70%
nolanryan [7k\]: white is thinking!
nulllevel [1d\]: safety move
Karcusrd [7k\]: interesting what the bot did in the center
nulllevel [1d\]: 50 %
noobette: 20%
hohoho [12k\]: 1%
Ribbon [7k\]: does mogo have pondering on?
teytaud [-\]: 78.3%...
eternalkyu [2k\]: he plays desperate at 70%? I don't think so...
noobette: -10%
flippant [5k\]: it would be cool if SE could use Mogo
Ukasuhs [2k\]: 50% is kinda late to start to bering more risky
xanderdad [7k\]: who says MoGo is a "he"?
eternalkyu [2k\]: only if it's a handicap game
]
;W[gm]WL[4656.007]C[GOerrilla [?\]: It's an IT
eternalkyu [2k\]: if not 50% is way too early!
pasky [1d\]: czechbot, for instance, is a she
jnr [-\]: I play like a 8p XD
GOerrilla [?\]: pun entirely intended
Warfreak2 [3d\]: flippant, SE and mogo are completely not the same thing, SE estimates the win margin, mogo estimates the win probability
wuwei [4k\]: MoGO is a "they"
mandelbrot [2k\]: I like b here
Warfreak2 [3d\]: SE doesn't say W+75%
noobette: bots have the same right of the humans
datagram [4k\]: lol, mogo is legion
]
;B[nb]BL[1709.79]C[wuwei [4k\]: sure
flippant [5k\]: it would be cool if you could access whatever numbers mogo has, via kgs
peterchris [3k\]: pasky: a russian man told me, "if you throw that chess game, you'll win a wife"
CBlue [5d?\]: oho
]
;W[kh]WL[4642.708]C[jnr [-\]: mogo is an army of phD candidate and engineer ^^
hohoho [12k\]: do pros get weaker as they get older?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: some day robots will demand equal rights
GOerrilla [?\]: All your Base are Belong to Us
flippant [5k\]: the right to free bytes
Warfreak2 [3d\]: until then we can force them to dance for our amusement
nulllevel [1d\]: ok mogo recovered from bad moves !
Ribbon [7k\]: yah, mogo is legion, if you consider it has 10000 cpu's with 4 cores each
hohoho [12k\]: pros get weaker but keep the same rank?
pasky [1d\]: peterchrist, and i made myself a bot instead :P
pasky [1d\]: -t
tsiki [1d\]: how many developers/coders does MoGo have?
eternalkyu [2k\]: I think they can't drop in ranks
]
;B[he]BL[1667.417]C[peterchris [3k\]: i threw the chess game, and did get something, but no wife, then at least...
nulllevel [1d\]: o18 was süperb
jnr [-\]: milk
eternalkyu [2k\]: because it's an honorable title more than a rating
Nick8a [3k\]: h8
peterchris [3k\]: pasky: you need to move to 3rd world country
jnr [-\]: mild
tsiki [1d\]: now that's a bot move if i've ever seen one
noobette: 10000 cpus of 100MHz?
pasky [1d\]: bots are popular there?
jnr [-\]: S10
GuuChan [1k\]: I wouldn't give mogo more than 60% likeliness to win
Karcusrd [7k\]: W will fall asleep after this game
peterchris [3k\]: women are cheaper
Oroth [7k\]: s10?
pasky [1d\]: surely not cheaper than czechbot
eternalkyu [2k\]: haha
Warfreak2 [3d\]: h15 isn't a bot move very much, it's the kind of move i would play if i just want to end the game and get my win
]
;W[gb]WL[4582.953]C[nulllevel [1d\]: h15 = threat to kill
teytaud [-\]: 77.3%...
noobette: peter, you cant get a good woman without a good car
noobette: not so cheap
eternalkyu [2k\]: sounds like a bot move to me, warfreak :)
peterchris [3k\]: all i have is a honda 125 and a 3rd world girl thinks its luxury, mo.
Bikersmoke [14k\]: i have a good car and a bike and still cant get a good women
]
;B[hc]BL[1626.054]
;W[hb]WL[4580.397]C[Midorya [2d\]: no I can. if you can't you fail
eternalkyu [2k\]: that's nothing to be proud of probably, Biker
Ribbon [7k\]: i have a pretty cute ribbon
Karcusrd [7k\]: this bots a gas hog
]
;B[rk]BL[1585.458]C[Bikersmoke [14k\]: didnt say was proud of it just the way it is
jnr [-\]: big
mstarsup5 [-\]: yes !!!
Warfreak2 [3d\]: win%?
noobette: oh biker
Ribbon [7k\]: what i want is a guy with a better ribbon, not a good car or bike
]
;W[fl]WL[4562.673]C[peterchris [3k\]: ribbon: can you cut with that?
teytaud [-\]: back to 80%...
mandelbrot [2k\]: is 6h game already planned? :)
godork [?\]: holy crap B's up? i just came here, but even with a handi of 7 i didnt think machine could beat 8p
Warfreak2 [3d\]: not much chance for tricker in the endgame now
]
;B[fm]BL[1545.246]C[peterchris [3k\]: if white played R3, what would win rate be?
peterchris [3k\]: higher or lower?
og [9k\]: doesn't b r3 work?
peterchris [3k\]: it doesn't work
]
;W[hl]WL[4546.845]C[Nick8a [3k\]: there it is
Rocker [4d\]: get a bike ,  u might have one
Nick8a [3k\]: sente
Nick8a [3k\]: j9
Thmayu [3d\]: b is still up 25 points or so
godork [?\]: 19
godork [?\]: says SE
]
;B[hk]BL[1506.317]C[hohoho [12k\]: B is dying slowly
mstarsup5 [-\]: i'd say 15 or so
hohoho [12k\]: it's like slow poisoning
godork [?\]: can W win in endgame??
Ribbon [7k\]: sure
]
;W[ho]WL[4507.278]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: w cannot make up 25 points in this endgame against me, he definitely can't win against mogo - he will make up 24 of them
mstarsup5 [-\]: W is gonna set a nasty ko, i'm sure :/
teytaud [-\]: 77.3% - it has never been so small I think
teytaud [-\]: (in that game...)
Ribbon [7k\]: oh yah, how does the bot manage ko?
jeffywhite [6k\]: it dosnt
mstarsup5 [-\]: you were at 77.3% 8 moves ago :)
]
;B[hp]BL[1468.43]
;W[el]WL[4503.685]C[Karcusrd [7k\]: lol
Demi [1k\]: ribbon, it doesn't
jnr [-\]: ouch
peterchris [3k\]: where can w start ko?
arapbaci [2k\]: i still wonder what is the percentage after W R3 case
jeffywhite [6k\]: it dosnt understand what a ko threat is
xanderdad [7k\]: what's up with the percentages?
godork [?\]: these are some nice end game moves >>
teytaud [-\]: ok: it has never been smaller than that :-)
hohoho [12k\]: bot is stupid
teytaud [-\]: in fact it has been almost constant in the game I guess
eternalkyu [2k\]: what I wonder is if these 25 points is the 72 minutes that won't be used
mstarsup5 [-\]: :-p
nulllevel [1d\]: still 20 pts for mogo , but 7 handys makes 30 pts in yose for w
]
;B[em]BL[1431.945]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: didn't it start at 7%?
eternalkyu [2k\]: 75*
Harleqin [3d\]: it manages ko by adhering to the ko rule in the playouts
Warfreak2 [3d\]: percentage will increase after w r3, it's a wasted move
jnr [-\]: F10
hohoho [12k\]: bot is stupid
inte [?\]: except that the bot is rather strong at yose
]
;W[ej]WL[4489.368]C[godork [?\]: B up by 25 now
nulllevel [1d\]: w + 10 i think
godork [?\]: says SE
teytaud [-\]: 74.9%
jnr [-\]: like an 8p ^^
mstarsup5 [-\]: arg
Harleqin [3d\]: f9 ko :)
teytaud [-\]: I am not confident when I see numbers which decrease :-)
patt [?\]: come check out the biggest ladder in history on the 38 times 38 bord
mstarsup5 [-\]: difficult for mogo this move :(((
]
;B[gk]BL[1396.142]
;W[gl]WL[4486.907]C[jnr [-\]: ??
FlameBlade [3d\]: oh dear me, empty triangle.
eternalkyu [2k\]: omg patt, that's all I've got to say, omg
Demi [1k\]: a little more ajikeshi
Warfreak2 [3d\]: good empty triangle
arapbaci [2k\]: bot can be thinking Q4 alive or much more aji then it is. thats why i wonder
Demi [1k\]: mogo style
Warfreak2 [3d\]: double sente
CBlue [5d?\]: i still think b may lose, not ahead that much really
Harleqin [3d\]: g9 stupid aji keshi
CBlue [5d?\]: someone said 25, i think definitely not
Warfreak2 [3d\]: g9 is not stupid
]
;B[ek]BL[1361.171]C[mstarsup5 [-\]: it's more like 10 points difference now
]
;W[fk]WL[4482.32]C[pasky [1d\]: seems to be around 10-15 to me now
peterchris [3k\]: e11
CBlue [5d?\]: i think at most 10
teytaud [-\]: 74.8%....
FlameBlade [3d\]: not sure what is E9...
Warfreak2 [3d\]: neither me
Harleqin [3d\]: this looks like the kind of moves it would make when it doesn't see a winning way
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo sensei will explain it
]
;B[ei]BL[1327.073]
;W[dk]WL[4478.162]C[teytaud [-\]: 72.6%
CBlue [5d?\]: im sure of loss now
FlameBlade [3d\]: that number is dropping fast.
pasky [1d\]: dun dun dun
pasky [1d\]: the doom is coming!
easygoing [3d?\]: i dont see b winning at all, but i could be wrong
Warfreak2 [3d\]: nah, looks like the kind of move it makes when it still has some spare points to throw away
jnr [-\]: very dangerous
GOerrilla [?\]: Even the SE thinks it's curtains
Kirby [1k\]: what the programmers think 7 stones is good enough now?
]
;B[ck]BL[1293.409]C[jnr [-\]: lof of aji
]
;W[di]WL[4475.321]C[hhw [?\]: how much is your school fund there warfreak? :)
peterchris [3k\]: warfreak: you're right
jnr [-\]: ouch
FlameBlade [3d\]: white really breaks now
jnr [-\]: ouch
CBlue [5d?\]: warfreak, but it doesnt have those pts?^^
FlameBlade [3d\]: *breaks in
jnr [-\]: ouch
Warfreak2 [3d\]: school fund?
eternalkyu [2k\]: ok gg, game over, start a new game?
nulllevel [1d\]: over
Rocker [4d\]: bot making silly moves now
Kirby [1k\]: the programmers are too cocky, and i hope that their research fails
hhw [?\]: warfreak, that you would bet
nulllevel [1d\]: w won
jeffywhite [6k\]: lol kirby
]
;B[cj]BL[1261.331]
;W[fi]WL[4473.207]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: hhw, i offered a bet on mogo vs a 1d who said he could beat this mogo
apagis [3d\]: what go level have the best MoGo programmers ?
jnr [-\]: finish
teytaud [-\]: 69.6%....
hhw [?\]: ah
nulllevel [1d\]: misread by mogo
folmez [6k\]: best bot is 3d
FlameBlade [3d\]: could get fun soon.
]
;B[eh]BL[1229.348]
;W[gi]WL[4470.623]C[jnr [-\]: ??
GuuChan [1k?\]: SE still agrees with MoGo
CBlue [5d?\]: we should ask w about his % :-p
teytaud [-\]: 69.2%...
FlameBlade [3d\]: black can't play F10 easily
Spinoza [2k\]: hehe white comes back 
pasky [1d\]: ignore SE
pasky [1d\]: chinese rules
mstarsup5 [-\]: tricky
Nick8a [3k\]: w sneeky
]
;B[qm]BL[1198.411]C[godork [?\]: ya f10 j9 e9 k9 
eternalkyu [2k\]: ooops
jnr [-\]: ouch
eternalkyu [2k\]: tenuki?
jnr [-\]: ouch
]
;W[qn]WL[4459.384]C[pasky [1d\]: classy
teytaud [-\]: 71.8%
flippant [5k\]: is this because mogo can't see the end of the ko?
peterchris [3k\]: the ko
]
;B[gh]BL[1168.497]C[mstarsup5 [-\]: f10 j9 j12 k13 j10 h11 h12 
Harleqin [3d\]: at what percentage level does mogo resign?
mstarsup5 [-\]: hurts a lot :(
flippant [5k\]: heh or maybe i am not good enough to understand ;-)
]
;W[fj]WL[4443.452]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: 20 someone said
Demi [1k\]: what's stopping b from playing f10?
Demi [1k\]: before
GOerrilla [?\]: I might have answered R8 instead of with R6---but I'm only SDK
Ukasuhs [2k\]: f10 j9 h10 k9 
Demi [1k\]: oh yeah nvm
Warfreak2 [3d\]: white will capture k8, demi
Vistani [2k\]: f10 j9
jeffywhite [6k\]: a white stone demi
Demi [1k\]: misread :)
jnr [-\]: ouch
jeffywhite [6k\]: and it dosnt get ko
peterchris [3k\]: warfreak: please i would love a lesson sometime, if you would be so kind
teytaud [-\]: sorry!
flippant [5k\]: ah
pasky [1d\]: jnr, can you say sometihng else too?
teytaud [-\]: mogo comes back ...
nulllevel [1d\]: no
Ukasuhs [2k\]: mogo escaped again!!!
jnr [-\]: aie is ok ?
nulllevel [1d\]: no
eternalkyu [2k\]: good time to escape tbh
pasky [1d\]: no :(
nulllevel [1d\]: bad aji
Ribbon [7k\]: a i u e o
datagram [4k\]: smoke break?
jnr [-\]: its just the expression of sadness of a mogo programmer
Oroth [7k\]: is mogo programmed to escape if chances drop below 70%?
pasky [1d\]: be back after the advertisement
Warfreak2 [3d\]: peterchris, feel free to ask whenever, i don't tend to plan ahead, only it is 3:15 AM right now and i'm going to bed once mogo wins this game :-)
Ribbon [7k\]: oh, jnr is the coder
nulllevel [1d\]: h11 for b doesnt work
godork [?\]: ya
Warfreak2 [3d\]: if b wins, h11 works
Warfreak2 [3d\]: :-)
flippant [5k\]: a supercomputer program doesn't need to be specially designed to crash ;-)
eternalkyu [2k\]: what the.... he's escaping when he thinks he's winning?
godork [?\]: h11 is stupid
Chrille [4k\]: j10
mstarsup5 [-\]: h11 j9 h10 k9  warfreak
nulllevel [1d\]: h11 is not
eternalkyu [2k\]: I don't think so, oroth
gonewb [4k\]: h11 loses j8 stones
Rocker [4d\]: w wins by 20
RedPtown [7k\]: Escaping means he won't lose on time
Warfreak2 [3d\]: it works if b wins, mstarsup, what more need i say
MoGoTiTan [-\]: GTP Engine for MoGoTiTan (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
Dan0 [4k\]: j10?
flippant [5k\]: woo
pasky [1d\]: that's not possible, rocker :)
CBlue [5d?\]: b must repair the shape a bit, but doenst really have time to do so
pasky [1d\]: if w wins, only by resign ;)
peterchris [3k\]: warfreak, cool, next time we have a good time
mstarsup5 [-\]: heh
Vistani [2k\]: warfreak is pointing out that b's moves make sense if b wins whether or not it wins by much
mstarsup5 [-\]: right, i just hope B wins then :p
Warfreak2 [3d\]: :-) me too
CBlue [5d?\]: seems w will get biggest endgames
]
;B[pr]BL[1117.558]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: here we go
eternalkyu [2k\]: ohno
flippant [5k\]: oh ho
pasky [1d\]: oh, finally
symplicity [2k\]: lol
]
;W[qq]WL[4436.408]C[nulllevel [1d\]: lol
CBlue [5d?\]: ^^
Demi [1k\]: and how does this make sense.
pasky [1d\]: now the percentages might get a bit in line
teytaud [-\]: 68.2%
gonewb [4k\]: when in doubt tenuki
FlameBlade [3d\]: looks like...getting desperate?
mstarsup5 [-\]: uho....
flippant [5k\]: mogo likes to delay the inevitable
eternalkyu [2k\]: I can go now then, great
Vistani [2k\]: can we get a play by play on mogo's winning % as it plays out this corner? :)
nulllevel [1d\]: desperation
]
;B[rq]BL[1089.479]C[nulllevel [1d\]: i mean by b
]
;W[qr]WL[4433.055]C[pasky [1d\]: woo tesuji
flippant [5k\]: classic horizon style
CBlue [5d?\]: lol
Warfreak2 [3d\]: how did i see s3 coming
jeffywhite [6k\]: you thought
]
;B[mh]BL[1062.044]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: how would my brother play
]
;W[nh]WL[4428.954]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: heh
Warfreak2 [3d\]: my brother's still 20 kyu :-)
pasky [1d\]: hmm
pasky [1d\]: this doesn't look good
Warfreak2 [3d\]: he's not strong enough to see s3
eternalkyu [2k\]: h3 gives white all the 3 possible extensions to play
jeffywhite [6k\]: mine is 25
]
;B[mi]BL[1034.899]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: and always makes that move if i peep on the inside
]
;W[lg]WL[4423.963]C[nulllevel [1d\]: b is finished
Warfreak2 [3d\]: my dad is 10k. maybe 9k now, don't know
eternalkyu [2k\]: tell him not to. then?
jeffywhite [6k\]: how old are u
Warfreak2 [3d\]: 20.
GuuChan [1k?\]: Hope an 8-stone game will be programmed soon
Kirby [1k\]: the funny thing is, whenever the pro beats the computer it is never advertised
jeffywhite [6k\]: 15
]
;B[lf]BL[1009.112]C[flippant [5k\]: b's still up, no?
]
;W[mf]WL[4420.685]C[Kirby [1k\]: but if the computer will win one game, everyone will go crazy
CBlue [5d?\]: mad gote for b
FlameBlade [3d\]: wow.
CBlue [5d?\]: ie k13
Warfreak2 [3d\]: there only is this one game, kirby
FlameBlade [3d\]: B is like, "here, kill me more"
CBlue [5d?\]: wellor rather j12
Kirby [1k\]: this looks like the second game to me
nulllevel [1d\]: yeah
]
;B[hi]BL[984.203]C[mof [1d?\]: that's not true Kirby. I didn't react at all.
CBlue [5d?\]: lol..
Ukasuhs [2k\]: ...
Oroth [7k\]: b wants to be absolutely sure he doesn't have any ko threats
nulllevel [1d\]: omg
Warfreak2 [3d\]: check the clocks, the first game was a blitz
]
;W[fh]WL[4408.722]C[xanderdad [7k\]: now j9?
Kirby [1k\]: oh ok
pasky [1d\]: what's the %s please?
Ribbon [7k\]: when the pro beats the computer, its nothing special
Warfreak2 [3d\]: this is the real deal
pasky [1d\]: is it below 60% already? :)
Ribbon [7k\]: so no advertise
gonewb [4k\]: why not j9
]
;B[fg]BL[959.648]
;W[ik]WL[4406.907]C[nulllevel [1d\]: what was this
Ukasuhs [2k\]: ...
jnr [-\]: sad
xRakux [9k\]: wth
kyu30dummy: visualization makes fun for me what robot sees percent signs???
nulllevel [1d\]: poor reading
og [9k\]: boom
GuuChan [1k?\]: Kirby : currently computer vs. human is like david against goliath, in the "intelligence" field
jujoob [9k\]: waw
]
;B[jb]BL[936.019]C[Oroth [7k\]: lol
teytaud [-\]: 56%
godork [?\]: o.0
Kirby [1k\]: well, it will take awhile for a computer to impress me
teytaud [-\]: I'm not confident at all :-)
pasky [1d\]: ok
sirius45 [9k\]: are this live?
halojones [5k\]: guuchan: you mean the computer can win with a single stone?
]
;W[kb]WL[4385.482]C[nulllevel [1d\]: nuts
pasky [1d\]: i think it's looking grim for mogo
gonewb [4k\]: how does myung have 73 mins and mogo has 15
CBlue [5d?\]: does the bot resign at certain % ?
pasky [1d\]: yeah
datagram [4k\]: I think this in and of itself is very impressive
GuuChan [1k?\]: MoGo should look at the trend of its % to compute its true %
pasky [1d\]: but that's far away yet :)
Ribbon [7k\]: no afaik
Warfreak2 [3d\]: w thinks on b clock, as always
datagram [4k\]: big leap for go bots
CBlue [5d?\]: o_ô
]
;B[id]BL[912.411]
;W[ib]WL[4378.386]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: ive played many games where i have only used 18 min
Spinoza [2k\]: wow, can programmers look at the logs and analyze how Mogo reasoned that h11 was a good move?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: you mean the same way the sun works out that a pint will cost £12 in 2020?
]
;B[jk]BL[889.218]
;W[hj]WL[4375.819]C[flippant [5k\]: they can probably figure it out
teytaud [-\]: 55%
Ribbon [7k\]: lol
Spinoza [2k\]: I mean, it is possible for the the people who designed mogo to analyze its "thought" process during games? 
xanderdad [7k\]: better j10
pasky [1d\]: still over 50%
]
;B[fq]BL[866.914]C[pasky [1d\]: amazing
eternalkyu [2k\]: warfreak funny :)
]
;W[cr]WL[4370.315]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: halojones : at 359 handi, maybe :)
FlameBlade [3d\]: it's official.  mogo sucks at yose
FlameBlade [3d\]: :D
Warfreak2 [3d\]: mogo doesn't need to know its "true" percent, what would it use it for?
Jenius2: how do u know the percentage
TDK [9k\]: how much for a pint now?
Ribbon [7k\]: the "thought" process is actually veeeery simple
pasky [1d\]: mogo's optimism never ceases to amaze me ;)
jnr [-\]: P18
Jenius2: w is clearly leading by a lot??
jeffywhite [6k\]: with normal komi still no
]
;B[fb]BL[845.652]C[jnr [-\]: w P18
teytaud [-\]: 48%
FlameBlade [3d\]: that's 2 points for white.
]
;W[hh]WL[4357.488]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: at the moment a pint is £1.50-4 depending on where you are in england
xRakux [9k\]: ?what does this do
pasky [1d\]: over :)
teytaud [-\]: c'est foutu :-/
nulllevel [1d\]: 0,0 %
GuuChan [1k?\]: (depuis longtemps)
godork [?\]: o.0 SE is way off
xRakux [9k\]: i mean like bf18, whats the point
]
;B[gg]BL[823.847]
;W[ih]WL[4355.646]
;B[ij]BL[803.671]
;W[jg]WL[4352.31]C[Spinoza [2k\]: at what % does Mogo resign? 
arpad [-\]: 20
Spinoza [2k\]: ah ok thanks
jeffywhite [6k\]: haha
Jenius2: how do i look up the percentage
]
;B[ks]BL[783.159]
;W[ls]WL[4349.135]C[teytaud [-\]: 45%
Ribbon [7k\]: console output
Daan [6k\]: (on s'en doutait un peu)
]
;B[rm]BL[763.084]
;W[sm]WL[4346.659]C[nulllevel [1d\]: time to resign
Jenius2: at least it's going down
horos22 [4k\]: 45% resign or current percentage?
kyu30dummy: bots beat 99 % of human only myungwan superman...
]
;B[qp]BL[743.685]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: you think he resigns at 4%?
]
;W[pq]WL[4340.25]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: 45%*
flippant [5k\]: what an awesome game, in its own weird way
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: It will resign at 20 %
eternalkyu [2k\]: do you resign at even games?
]
;B[oq]BL[725.32]
;W[or]WL[4337.046]C[horos22 [4k\]: ahh so now it thinks it's losing/
horos22 [4k\]: ?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Until then it will play weird moves
aez [12k\]: awkward move.
horos22 [4k\]: yeah.. starting the weird move thing now..
]
;B[rr]BL[706.861]
;W[op]WL[4335.074]C[teytaud [-\]: 35%
godork [?\]: almost there
teytaud [-\]: mogo will resign soon :-)
Ribbon [7k\]: lol haha
]
;B[so]BL[689.484]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: ok, so the 25% down to 20% is the wierd moves he isn't certain will work?
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: It started the weird moves a couple of moves ago
Demi [1k\]: it hadn't realized the lower right was dead?
]
;W[ql]WL[4328.873]C[flippant [5k\]: interesting that playing out the lower right gave it more knowledge
waterpruf [2k\]: pro uses only 18 minutes
jeffywhite [6k\]: nope
BreatheGo [4k\]: LOL
waterpruf [2k\]: big diference
BreatheGo [4k\]: dead gote?
godork [?\]: W is now winning even by SE
]
;B[pl]BL[672.473]
;W[pm]WL[4326.543]C[horos22 [4k\]: pro used 11 + 79 :)
]
;B[qs]BL[655.431]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: SE is finally right :p
]
;W[ps]WL[4324.032]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: (and MoGo too)
]
;B[rs]BL[639.075]
;W[ro]WL[4321.045]C[godork [?\]: lol
teytaud [-\]: 25%.......
Demi [1k\]: any time now...
peterchris [3k\]: mogo done
]
;B[sp]BL[623.341]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: go ! go ! mo' go !
godork [?\]: hahaha
Harleqin [3d\]: aie
StephenSun [2d\]: ?
]
;W[oi]WL[4312.954]C[tsiki [1d\]: well, it was a close game at least
BreatheGo [4k\]: dead in GOTE AGAIN?
nulllevel [1d\]: lol
godork [?\]: you show im mogo!
StephenSun [2d\]: must be a misclick
eternalkyu [2k\]: dead in double gote hehe
]
;B[og]BL[608.09]C[flippant [5k\]: see warfreak - the point of the dynamic komi is so that mogo doesn't play slack when it has mistakes in its evaluation, like the lower right here
]
;W[ng]WL[4310.045]
;B[oj]BL[593.057]
;W[sk]WL[4308.334]C[gonewb [4k\]: whats dynamic komi
stamm [1k\]: Computer already desperate
eternalkyu [2k\]: I don't think he ever thought that would work, flippant
godork [?\]: res now?
]
;B[fc]BL[578.284]C[jeffywhite [6k\]: whats dynamic komi
flippant [5k\]: he must have
]
;W[rj]WL[4301.558]C[teytaud [-\]: 23%
Ribbon [7k\]: :(((
flippant [5k\]: since the score estimate went down so much after playing out the lower right
jnr [-\]: 0%
eternalkyu [2k\]: it's just that he played it now because he saw he was losing
]
;B[ga]BL[563.554]C[jnr [-\]: -23 % ....
eternalkyu [2k\]: or he would play there earlier, no?
vicius85 [1d\]: lol
horos22 [4k\]: dynamic komi is when you change the eval function of the computer
]
;W[qj]WL[4289.465]C[godork [?\]: lol
eternalkyu [2k\]: hm, right
Warfreak2 [3d\]: flippant, the percentage is not a score estimate, it's win probability estimate
godork [?\]: mogos so cool
horos22 [4k\]: by adding or subtracting komi from its evaluation score
]
;B[ja]BL[549.645]
;W[ka]WL[4286.007]C[vicius85 [1d\]: ??????'
Warfreak2 [3d\]: when you stop confusing score with win probability, we'll talk
godork [?\]: i like this fellow for his ridiclously dumb moves
pasky [1d\]: thanks mogo team, and thanks myungwan... i liked the game overally :)
xanderdad [7k\]: w wants to kill middle?
pasky [1d\]: i'm off to bed, nite
arpad [-\]: i think mogo estimated correctly the lower right but didn't think his moyo could be invaded
]
;B[ld]BL[535.334]
;W[kd]WL[4283.079]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: then it's really weak though, if it can't see it would die atleast if white plays first
vavoysh [6k\]: 0%
flippant [5k\]: you know what i mean
arpad [-\]: L9 winning move
]
;B[ha]BL[521.984]
;W[pi]WL[4280.958]C[godork [?\]: lol SE thinks Bs way up
teytaud [-\]: 29%
godork [?\]: nvm 
vavoysh [6k\]: no it doesn't
]
;B[ni]BL[509.122]C[godork [?\]: not any more =P
]
;W[pk]WL[4279.061]C[wuwei [4k\]: mmm, went up
]
;B[oh]BL[496.79]C[pasky [1d\]: tat's just a fluke
StephenSun [2d\]: game over
BreatheGo [4k\]: ...
]
;W[ok]WL[4272.875]C[vavoysh [6k\]: wha?
CBlue [5d?\]: whee, black is dead ^^
eternalkyu [2k\]: warfreak, right now the score is 0, you can add 5 to either side to get another balance, no difficulties
datagram [4k\]: Does mogo have the same # of systems in the cluster as before?
nolanryan [7k\]: hahaha
Jenius2: self destructing
horos22 [4k\]: ouch..
teytaud [-\]: 26%
aez [12k\]: AHAHA
Lever [10k?\]: lol
horos22 [4k\]: argh.
godork [?\]: lol
]
;B[ig]BL[483.844]C[gonewb [4k\]: lmao
GuuChan [1k?\]: datagram : yes
graemy [10k\]: mogo gonna blow up
aez [12k\]: :\\ comps are still so flawed\\
godork [?\]: GO MOGO!
vavoysh [6k\]: n19 all all of his hope is los
]
;W[hg]WL[4254.102]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: it heard me
Warfreak2 [3d\]: no need to n19
graemy [10k\]: mogo built to play go, and cant.  suicide is it's only option
GuuChan [1k?\]: go ! go ! mo' go !
]
;B[if]BL[471.109]C[Warfreak2 [3d\]: white needs to k17 if he wants that eye, they are miai
]
;W[nj]WL[4244.686]C[hhw [?\]: eye?
GuuChan [1k?\]: mogo may still win on nerves
]
;B[oj]BL[458.991]
;W[of]WL[4241.933]C[teytaud [-\]: 24%...
graemy [10k\]: this is a sad day for mogo's everywhere
vicius85 [1d\]: H9?
]
;B[ia]BL[447.73]C[nulllevel [1d\]: b destroyed
]
;W[nc]WL[4227.451]C[teytaud [-\]: 28%
]
;B[oc]BL[436.755]
;W[pe]WL[4224.867]C[TDK [9k\]: myung definately having fun :)
lwhite [6d\]: goodness
GuuChan [1k?\]: wow
jon6660 [-\]: it went up/?
]
;B[mc]BL[425.799]C[GuuChan [1k?\]: great timing
lwhite [6d\]: disaster
]
;W[qe]WL[4222.465]C[StephenSun [2d\]: nice tesuji
godork [?\]: lol
lwhite [6d\]: what happen in 5minutes...
]
;B[re]BL[415.418]
;W[rd]WL[4220.904]C[Nyanjilla [-\]: pros are allowed to have fun against bots
graemy [10k\]: mogo is a sad panda
kyu30dummy: myung is excellent top .01%  
]
;B[rf]BL[405.014]
;W[qd]WL[4219.275]
;B[rc]BL[394.907]C[teytaud [-\]: very close to resigning...
]
;W[se]WL[4217.536]C[eternalkyu [2k\]: hehe
eternalkyu [2k\]: ok gg
]
;B[qh]BL[385.272]C[Lestat1337 [?\]: nice revenge for the loos
StephenSun [2d\]: i think the bot still think its alive
StephenSun [2d\]: or i mean the bot thinks whites dead
]
;W[pf]WL[4204.576]C[TDK [9k\]: i really want to know how those 25% he wins look like :P
Ribbon [7k\]: kill that white group!
Ribbon [7k\]: go for it!!
stamm [1k\]: I can't stand that no more, bye
Ribbon [7k\]: kill!! kill faster!
]
;B[qi]BL[375.476]C[inte [?\]: "this group is 10% dead!"
godork [?\]: go mogo go!
]
;W[sf]WL[4191.359]
;B[sg]BL[365.897]
;W[sd]WL[4189.555]C[symplicity [2k\]: a score of 25% does NOT mean there is a 25% chance to win
GuuChan [1k?\]: TDK : drunken opponent falls in stairs, nuclear tesuji... alike
godork [?\]: XD
]
;B[rh]BL[357.063]C[graemy [10k\]: mogo playing for the wrong side
TDK [9k\]: heh
]
;W[pj]WL[4184.574]C[Harleqin [3d\]: white has only 6 liberties
FlameBlade [3d\]: gg
hhw [?\]: finally
gonewb [4k\]: woot
flippant [5k\]: great game
GuuChan [1k?\]: at last /o\\
godork [?\]: took him long enough o.0
Warfreak2 [3d\]: how about mogo vs a 3 dan
kilroy [3d\]: woot woot
Warfreak2 [3d\]: (not me, i will lose)
kilroy [3d\]: humans still on top
flippant [5k\]: heh
MyungWan [8p\]: thanks
flippant [5k\]: i was gonna say, how about warfreak vs mogo!
GuuChan [1k?\]: thanks MyungWan :-)
hsesryery: mogo < 1d now
StephenSun [2d\]: mogo must be sad
graemy [10k\]: yay for myung!!
flippant [5k\]: you can do it man
StephenSun [2d\]: left without saying bye
kilroy [3d\]: congrats MyungWan
kyu30dummy: no human not on top only myung
mstarsup5 [-\]: thank you myung wan, thank you mogo
graemy [10k\]: lol
GOerrilla [?\]: Victory for Flesh & Blood over Silicon & Electrons
graemy [10k\]: Myung on top
peterchris [3k\]: thank you myung wan!!
Ribbon [7k\]: nooooo all my hopes
Nyanjilla [-\]: \\yay/ MyungWan!
flippant [5k\]: thank you myung wan and mogo
graemy [10k\]: we are all below
symplicity [2k\]: yay
teytaud [-\]: congratulations :-)
Ribbon [7k\]: lost with mogo
jnr [-\]: thx
Ribbon [7k\]: aaaaaah
flippant [5k\]: thanks teytaud and lapin
elife [3d\]: If possible, I would like to play a game with mogo
Ribbon [7k\]: humanity should perish!
Warfreak2 [3d\]: i don't understand why bot progress is measured in handicap vs pro anyway
GuuChan [1k?\]: Please play 8 stones next :)
graemy [10k\]: if a war breaks out between hmans and computes
graemy [10k\]: we will fight them with go
arpad [-\]: it's really hard to mesure the strentgh of a bot
Nyanjilla [-\]: how else to measure, Warfreak2?
Warfreak2 [3d\]: handicap strategy is harder because you have to play the opponent rather than the board
Oroth [7k\]: and the bot only used an hour more...
symplicity [2k\]: what we really should have is a series of matches with players 1-2d, even
Warfreak2 [3d\]: why not have it play even games against players of increasing strength, to measure progress
Harleqin [3d\]: yay, count me in
Warfreak2 [3d\]: first let's see mogo beat up some 1d players, for our amusement
TDK [9k\]: that would be amusing, yes :)
arpad [-\]: the problem is that we wan't have a lot of games because computer power costs a lot
Ribbon [7k\]: where is that 1d player who was here earlier
Ribbon [7k\]: who said he can beat mogo
Ribbon [7k\]: cssomething
arpad [-\]: the sponsor wants to have something for their monye :)
elife [3d\]: how many core this mogo used?
ddoshay [7k?\]: 800
elife [3d\]: oh
Warfreak2 [3d\]: the sponsor probably wants a strong go playing program
cloudo [6k\]: not really?
tsiki [1d\]: MyungWan, what would you estimate MoGo's level as?
elife [3d\]: same core numbers as previous match
tsiki [1d\]: damn, he left
ddoshay [7k?\]: The "sponsorship" for this match was the donation of the computer time
mstarsup5 [-\]: tsiki: myungwan left
ddoshay [7k?\]: The Pro played for free
gobrobo [13k\]: good to see they do that
Ribbon [7k\]: i found him
Ribbon [7k\]: cksmao
Ribbon [7k\]: let mogo challenge that guy
ddoshay [7k?\]: The cost of teh computer time is too high to have mogoTitan play random people with 800 cores
ddoshay [7k?\]: goodnight!
])
