(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go version 12.001]
SZ[19]
HA[7]
ST[0]
PB[Mogo]
PW[nutngo]
DT[2009-02-12]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[0.5]
TM[0]
RU[Chinese]
RE[W+Resign]
OT[10x40 byo-yomi]
C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)]
CA[UTF-8];B[dd]BL[40]OB[10];B[dj]BL[40]OB[10];B[dp]BL[40]OB[10];B[pd]BL[40]OB[10];B[pj]BL[40]OB[10];B[pp]BL[40]OB[10];B[jj]BL[40]OB[10];W[jq]WL[40]OW[10]
;B[qm]BL[40]OB[10];W[fq]WL[40]OW[10];B[mc]BL[40]OB[10];W[dm]WL[40]OW[10];B[jc]BL[40]OB[10];W[cf]
C[Xiangqi [4k\]: so he's playing the computer or this is a relay \
game?]
WL[40]OW[10];B[gj]BL[40]OB[10];W[eo]WL[40]OW[10];B[eg]BL[40]OB[10];W[ef]
C[ZenChocobo [5k\]: live
ZenChocobo [5k\]: i tink]
WL[40]OW[10]
;B[ff]BL[40]OB[10];W[ee]WL[40]OW[10];B[gc]BL[40]OB[10];W[ed]WL[40]OW[10];B[dc]
C[sai9 [1d\]: who is w?]
BL[40]OB[10];W[ec]
C[Xiangqi [4k\]: w is a pro 
sai9 [1d\]: oh
Hyre [12k\]: shih chin 2P
vhu [7k\]: Shih Chin 2p]
WL[40]OW[10];B[ge]BL[40]OB[10];W[bd]WL[40]OW[10];B[qg]BL[40]OB[10];W[mj]
C[vhu [7k\]: b looks dense in right side
Xiangqi [4k\]: yeah I play these computers every now and then \
they love this set up]
WL[40]OW[10]
;B[nm]BL[40]OB[10];W[kk]WL[40]OW[10];B[kj]BL[40]OB[10];W[ml]WL[40]OW[10];B[mm]BL[40]OB[10];W[km]
C[yank [?\]: Why stop?
Xiangqi [4k\]: that last move was so good the computer's motherboard \
shorted out
Goreon [1d\]: still its only a moyo
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)
poivron [9k\]: yeah mogo is back]
WL[40]OW[10];B[lj]BL[40]OB[9];W[oj]WL[40]OW[10];B[oi]BL[40]OB[9];W[ni]
C[Xylol [15k\]: why is a pro playing a computer?
poivron [9k\]: read the disctution]
WL[40]OW[10]
;B[lk]
C[poivron [9k\]: then ask
jer [5d\]: ouch
jer [5d\]: w cry]
BL[40]OB[9];W[pk]
C[b1rd0fpr3y [1d\]: he surely saw the cut long ago
poivron [9k\]: ca fait lontemps que tu joues au go jer ?
jer [5d\]: http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=jer&year=2008&month=10]
WL[40]OW[10];B[ok]
C[Xiangqi [4k\]: dont underestimate the computer's ability to come \
up with something a 20k would be ashamed of
gospiller [8k\]: So limited place for w to operate ......
jer [5d\]: game almost over now
jer [5d\]: mogo will kill this I guess]
BL[40]OB[9];W[qd]
C[jer [5d\]: ah!
jer [5d\]: tenuki now
ErikE [6k\]: create something to have a ko fight about
jer [5d\]: w try to create bugs hehe]
WL[40]OW[9];B[qc]BL[40]OB[9];W[pe]
C[matjet [2k\]: must be annoying playing a handicap game where the \
opponent actually just ignores your corner approaches and instead \
focuses purelly on creating enough of an impenetrable thickness \
that it can win.]
WL[40]OW[9];B[nj]
C[aware [2k\]: valid strategy in handy games
b1rd0fpr3y [1d\]: mogo probably doesn't care much about aesthetics]
BL[40]OB[9];W[qf]
C[jer [5d\]: go on w
Xiangqi [4k\]: THERE IS ANOTHER GAME BETWEEN THESE TWO IN THE \
COMPUTER ROOM GAME LIST AND WHITE PRETTY WELL DESTRYED BLACK
matjet [2k\]: indeed, but most players prefer to try and put up \
some fight and defend the corners anyway
jer [5d\]: Human will winnn
Xiangqi [4k\]: sorry the caps
ampwyo [9k\]: its hard enough to just get a good go ai for points \
let alone aesthetics]
WL[40]OW[9];B[rd]BL[40]OB[9];W[re]WL[40]OW[9]
;B[oe]
C[aware [2k\]: well..last 2 days the bot was able to win 1 out of \
2 handy games against pro... so there is a chance
Goreon [1d\]: b better
Polemil [4k\]: maybe mogo learned something from the other game]
BL[40]OB[9];W[pf]
C[jer [5d\]: uh??
poivron [9k\]: i bet on nutngo
jer [5d\]: paye ta forme
poivron [9k\]: ^^]
WL[40]OW[8];B[qe]
C[Goreon [1d\]: this ko is so big
weirdchess [10k\]: i wonder how you teach a bot the concept of \
ko fights,
weirdchess [10k\]: that cant be easy to code
CHOWstyle [3k\]: w trying hard to make a ko..]
BL[40]OB[9];W[rg]
C[poivron [9k\]: i guess they use machine learneing]
WL[40]OW[8];B[qh]BL[40]OB[9];W[qd]
C[ErikE [6k\]: that's about as good a non-answer as I ever heard \
:)
bobo [15k\]: probabaly works like a switch]
WL[40]OW[8];B[of]
C[bobo [15k\]: a fucntion switch
jer [5d\]: aw
ampwyo [9k\]: umm that would be harder to code than rules for \
ko
jer [5d\]: mogo plays very well
jer [5d\]: so hard to win
bobo [15k\]: i guess it depends on the code
CHOWstyle [3k\]: w's ko strategy collapsed]
BL[40]OB[9];W[rc]
C[asdewka [12k\]: an1 human lost mogo?
jer [5d\]: sure?
Polemil [4k\]: yes CHOW]
WL[40]OW[8];B[qe]BL[40]OB[9];W[nk]
C[jer [5d\]: fake
bobo [15k\]: q13?
weirdchess [10k\]: lol - his ko threat is setting up another ko
jer [5d\]: b has to connect
weirdchess [10k\]: just r16 here, no?]
WL[40]OW[8]
;B[qd]BL[40]OB[9];W[oj]
C[jer [5d\]: oh!
poivron [9k\]: it s a koavalanch
bobo [15k\]: my complication got a complication
Goreon [1d\]: computer should have no psychological problems with \
fake threats
jer [5d\]: hehe
jer [5d\]: they can't be bluff
stonedaze [4k\]: mogo blunder?
weirdchess [10k\]: D15]
WL[40]OW[8];B[ol]
C[jer [5d\]: w resign will be only solution soon]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fg]
C[ErikE [6k\]: D15 unnecessary, B d16 group looks dead to me
weirdchess [10k\]: yeah i thought of it as a ko threat]
WL[40]OW[8];B[ll]
C[jer [5d\]: hehe
jer [5d\]: b kills aji
jer [5d\]: he has enought to win the game now
matjet [2k\]: judging by mogo life and death performance in 9*9, \
i think the best way to beat it is to move in everywhere and \
keep lots of little groups alive]
BL[40]OB[9];W[gg]
C[Ho229 [2k\]: g13 :-) how predictable
Xylol [15k\]: xD]
WL[40]OW[8];B[eh]BL[40]OB[9];W[pi]
C[bobo [15k\]: craziness]
WL[40]OW[8];B[nj]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: white doesnt seem so weak on the right side \
any more
jer [5d\]: p12 and this ko is nonsense
weirdchess [10k\]: black needs to win this ko
Genotive [3k\]: whats is this match about?]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fi]
C[ErikE [6k\]: trying to win.
yank [?\]: So does w.
Goreon [1d\]: but takinonce is for free]
WL[40]OW[8]
;B[qj]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: ?? doesnt connect?]
BL[40]OB[9];W[gi]
C[Genotive [3k\]: why is pro playing a bot?
b1rd0fpr3y [1d\]: at least the double atari is gone]
WL[40]OW[8];B[fj]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: because this bot is awesome
jer [5d\]: r10 first real bad move
Goreon [1d\]: the bot has a mighty programmer
matjet [2k\]: i think w will win this game. if d4, d16 and e12 \
all die
ampwyo [9k\]: why did kasparov play deep blue
ErikE [6k\]: the bot has 640 cores or something]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ei]
C[yank [?\]: R10 is a good move, for now.
Goury [2k\]: to test the bot, to help the programmers, for advertisement, \
for fun]
WL[40]OW[8];B[di]
C[matjet [2k\]: e10]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ej]WL[40]OW[8];B[ek]BL[40]OB[9];W[dk]
C[Goreon [1d\]: Shouldnt B better have answered the threat?]
WL[40]OW[8];B[ck]BL[40]OB[9];W[dl]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: im curious if R10 was chosen to guard the R12 \
stones - if black chose P10 instead, then white's R11 would have \
been strong i think]
WL[40]OW[8]
;B[hi]
C[Shadowrun [10k\]: h10]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ig]
C[ErikE [6k\]: h10 dies
weirdchess [10k\]: c12
Shadowrun [10k\]: ladder doesnt work
ErikE [6k\]: h10 would have been captured]
WL[40]OW[8];B[gh]BL[40]OB[9];W[fh]
C[aware [2k\]: g12?
ErikE [6k\]: I mean, h10 would hav allowed G11 to be captured]
WL[40]OW[8];B[hg]BL[40]OB[9];W[hh]
C[Genotive [3k\]: g12 was bad
weirdchess [10k\]: it was only one liberty short..
masek [-\]: в прошлой партии
ByanGwok02 [3k\]: bug
masek [-\]: мого перегрелся
ByanGwok02 [3k\]: bug]
WL[40]OW[8];B[hf]BL[40]OB[9];W[ii]
C[OvO [6d\]: now i understand why there are 7 handi
masek [-\]: seems bug in libs counting
Ho229 [2k\]: just h10]
WL[40]OW[8];B[hj]BL[40]OB[9];W[fk]
C[ErikE [6k\]: can't tell a bug vs. mistake with a computer, sometimes
masek [-\]: OvO why?
Xylol [15k\]: its all about probability, monte carlo you know...]
WL[40]OW[8]
;B[ij]BL[40]OB[9];W[pr]
C[Goreon [1d\]: sth like b12 needed for w?]
WL[40]OW[8];B[ch]
C[matjet [2k\]: mogo seems to do worse in large sd time than relativelly \
short byo yomi
weirdchess [10k\]: c12, yeah, i think white was threatening to \
cut at d12]
BL[40]OB[9];W[cl]
C[Goreon [1d\]: ok gain power toward ll now]
WL[40]OW[8];B[eb]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: ?]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fb]WL[40]OW[8];B[db]
C[masek [-\]: nutngo - питонго :) similar]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fc]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: seems like b has gone a little crazy]
WL[40]OW[8];B[gb]
C[Genotive [3k\]: b is in a state of panic]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fa]WL[40]OW[8]
;B[bi]
C[masek [-\]: I think Bender(Futurama) will be 10 p in go with his \
abilites :)
Xylol [15k\]: nutngo lost like 5 games already to mogo even with \
6hc]
BL[40]OB[9];W[bk]
C[Xylol [15k\]: i dont think so...
Shadowrun [10k\]: bender would cheat ^^
Zark0n [7k\]: он бы гнул противников]
WL[40]OW[8];B[bg]
C[Zark0n [7k\]: как балки)
weirdchess [10k\]: black looks dead on the left now - i think \
b9 was better than b11
masek [-\]: yeap shadow :) that's why 10p
poivron [9k\]: I agrtee Shadowrun blender would cheat ^^
matjet [2k\]: was that the same person playing nutgo though zylol
ByanGwok02 [3k\]: b14\\
masek [-\]: most strongest program Bender is not invented :)
Xylol [15k\]: matet thats a point, i dont know
sai9 [1d\]: b is very good
poivron [9k\]: w is ok ,
Ho229 [2k\]: if b14 it lives]
BL[40]OB[9];W[cj]
C[poivron [9k\]: ?
gospiller [8k\]: c15?
sai9 [1d\]: c15
sai9 [1d\]: :P]
WL[40]OW[7];B[bf]
C[poivron [9k\]: ouch
matjet [2k\]: now that black is playing inside whites area of \
influence, he is in big trouble]
BL[40]OB[9];W[be]
C[Shadowrun [10k\]: how strong is mogo solving l&d problems?
poivron [9k\]: c15 definitly
brainiaq [3k\]: does this work?
Xylol [15k\]: bots are even better than humans in l&d]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ce]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: not true
Q161 [17k\]: i heard the opposite
Meatex [2k\]: d13 makes easy life
weirdchess [10k\]: wow this looks like black can take the corner
Xylol [15k\]: on small parts of the board yes
profi [1d\]: res?
poivron [9k\]: game over ?]
BL[40]OB[9];W[bc]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: on small parts of the board 9p has perfect l&d
weirdchess [10k\]: d14 here
profi [1d\]: b18 
Xylol [15k\]: well than the bot is even a tick faster]
WL[40]OW[7];B[el]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: ???
sai9 [1d\]: lol
ErikE [6k\]: um
brainiaq [3k\]: bots actually have problems with l&d
profi [1d\]: timesudzi ^^
brainiaq [3k\]: at a high level
Ho229 [2k\]: d13?
weirdchess [10k\]: gosh everytime i think the bot finally has \
found intelligence it does something like that...]
BL[40]OB[9];W[dg]
C[Ho229 [2k\]: think e8 was a mistake]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[dh]BL[40]OB[9];W[fl]
C[poivron [9k\]: yes but e8 sente
brainiaq [3k\]: sente for giving w a chance
matjet [2k\]: sente mistake is just a wasted ko threat
barbar [2d\]: b18
Goury [2k\]: not sente, allowed d13]
WL[40]OW[7];B[em]
C[sai9 [1d\]: what is bot rank?
weirdchess [10k\]: e8 wasnt sente... white could just respond \
f8 with the same position, but an extra point and better thickness]
BL[40]OB[9];W[fm]
C[Shadowrun [10k\]: does mogo know the ladder?
Xylol [15k\]: xD
CoDeR [5k\]: (:
weirdchess [10k\]: lol
Korlon [2k\]: Still timesujis
Oloril [2k\]: difficult for computers to see ladders
Totti10 [6k\]: sometimes]
WL[40]OW[7];B[en]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: actually, it might not
Oloril [2k\]: very computationally expensive]
BL[40]OB[9];W[dn]
C[matjet [2k\]: apparently not
ErikE [6k\]: hilarious
Korlon [2k\]: Note how he always plays it right before he loses \
a round of byo-yomi
Ho229 [2k\]: go black... show how fearless you are
CoDeR [5k\]: now it sees the ladder i think (:
weirdchess [10k\]: this is just depressing..
klouk [13k\]: ladder????  :P
antiriad [1k?\]: why is the bot that bad, that it cant even see \
a simple ladder??]
WL[40]OW[7];B[cg]BL[40]OB[9];W[df]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: because of how it works
ErikE [6k\]: maybe it's a time tesuji
Ho229 [2k\]: maybe works well all the same
Goury [2k\]: a mis-interpret of add a stone and sacrifice both \
:)) he continued to add stones :)
antiriad [1k?\]: lol sorry? it's not really hard to add a primary \
check for a simple zig zag ladder course
Oloril [2k\]: the program doesn't look at a go game like a human \
does
CoDeR [5k\]: yes mogo has known about the ladder now :P
Ho229 [2k\]: w does not have too many libs
antiriad [1k?\]: it's just really bad design
brainiaq [3k\]: it is very good at other things, but long, specific \
sequences are difficult for monte carlo simulations]
WL[40]OW[7];B[bb]
C[Meatex [2k\]: d15 works doesn't it
Hu [6k\]: W F19 has one fewer liberties than D18.
profi [1d\]: ladder should be very simple for bots
Xylol [15k\]: brainiaq true
brainiaq [3k\]: ladder is easy for a certain type of bot
brainiaq [3k\]: but not this type
ErikE [6k\]: straightforward ladders are simple for computers]
BL[40]OB[9];W[cd]
C[ErikE [6k\]: but those bouncing of other stones are not
ErikE [6k\]: off
Xylol [15k\]: even simple long term calculation like ladder is \
difficult
antiriad [1k?\]: well, should change this type from "retarded \
+ monte carlo" to "normal + monte carlo" maybe
asdewka [12k\]: b15 alive?
Hu [6k\]: Now equal libs, but W to move after B D15.
wildclaw [3k?\]: ErikE, not all monte carlo bots preread ladders \
as it makes playouts more complex
ErikE [6k\]: well... there can only be 2 or 3 splits off each \
stone, it shouldn't be THAT hard]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[ac]
C[Oloril [2k\]: antiriad, it's better than you or I, how much more \
do you want?
poivron [9k\]: over
Shadowrun [10k\]: a17??????????
weirdchess [10k\]: oh god i want to cry
Goury [2k\]: a17 nice]
BL[40]OB[9];W[de]
C[antiriad [1k?\]: it's definitely not better than me, lol
brainiaq [3k\]: i bet this one is
Oloril [2k\]: you can beat 9p with only 7H?
Q161 [17k\]: next match: Mogo vs Antiriad!!
antiriad [1k?\]: also, it doesnt really matter. if it cant read \
a simple ladder, it's still horrible
Xylol [15k\]: 5hc
Xylol [15k\]: :-)
antiriad [1k?\]: lol]
WL[40]OW[7];B[cc]
C[antiriad [1k?\]: there's the saying "if you cant read a ladder, \
stop playing". it doesnt really ask for your actual strength]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ad]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: you just have a misconception of how this is working
Q161 [17k\]: theres also a saying, wise men make sayings and fools \
repeat them
Shadowrun [10k\]: i know very hard ladders..... dont say that
Xylol [15k\]: if you dont know the ladder, you should not play \
go
ampwyo [9k\]: still looking at the game like a human
NemoEimi [?\]: some of these bots are stable 1k on kgs on only \
eight cores
poivron [9k\]: bha jme roule un spliff si c est ca]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ea]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: c19 is ko...]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ca]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: now its gone
barbar [2d\]: c19 was not ko]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ba]
C[Shadowrun [10k\]: could b win b16 if not played a17?
weirdchess [10k\]: black c19 then what for white?
sai9 [1d\]: b won]
BL[40]OB[9];W[ab]
C[Totti10 [6k\]: i think so
Capsule [-\]: white played c19 first...
gospiller [8k\]: g19?]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ah]
C[ErikE [6k\]: b won what?]
BL[40]OB[9];W[af]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: if instead of black e19, what about b c 19?
gospiller [8k\]: oh...
Xylol [15k\]: why not f6 for b?:-)
ErikE [6k\]: oh i c
barbar [2d\]: weird chess c19 e19 d19 a18  where is ko
Totti10 [6k\]: f6 too advanced
Capsule [-\]: then just e19 weirdchess]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[ih]BL[40]OB[9];W[jh]
C[matjet [2k\]: if black moved a14, at least he would appear to \
be trying 
antiriad [1k?\]: is this bot pure monte carlo or actually a combination \
of monte carlo and gnugo-like code?
CoDeR [5k\]: here we go...
asdewka [12k\]: SE says white lead..
weirdchess [10k\]: then a18 would have been 2 eyes
CoDeR [5k\]: mogo gone mad again (:
brainiaq [3k\]: b close to resign i think
ampwyo [9k\]: well white wins from here on
brainiaq [3k\]: it always gets weird right before resign]
WL[40]OW[7];B[bj]BL[40]OB[9];W[aj]
C[Capsule [-\]: weirdchess, maybe you should load up a clone :).
stonedaze [4k\]: kos it handles badly
barbar [2d\]: weirdchess you need to look more carefully
Troff [?\]: When it gets into a hopeless situation the position \
scoring stuff probably goes wonky and it starts playing down \
random paths]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ga]
C[CHOWstyle [3k\]: b wins]
BL[40]OB[9];W[cb]
C[Q161 [17k\]: ??
ErikE [6k\]: b wins what?
CoDeR [5k\]: chowstyle b wins what ?
weirdchess [10k\]: hm,  the d18 structure would have been in atari.. \
ugh
CoDeR [5k\]: (:]
WL[40]OW[7];B[da]BL[40]OB[9];W[cb]
C[Q161 [17k\]: what defintion of "win" are we using
CHOWstyle [3k\]: ehh
CHOWstyle [3k\]: nothing 
antiriad [1k?\]: so, can the programmers add an "if <ladder is \
bad> discard+break" check to the monte carlo paths maybe? or \
is that "not how it works"?
brainiaq [3k\]: here's why it gets weird:  after sampling a lot \
of random games, it chooses the move that had the highest win \
rate.  but when it's losing, the only random games it wins are \
when the opponent blunders badly.  so it chooses obviously hopeless \
moves.
CoDeR [5k\]: (:]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ca]BL[40]OB[9];W[ac]
C[Ho229 [2k\]: if black had done a14 instead of a12 it could have \
approached
brainiaq [3k\]: no that's not how it works
brainiaq [3k\]: it relies on being able to randomly fillthe board \
really fast]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[kq]
C[Ho229 [2k\]: in that way it would have been miai a12 and filling \
a w lib. so black would have won one fight
inochi33 [5k\]: i took a basic programmming class and yeah writing \
ladder program isn't that hard]
BL[40]OB[9];W[qq]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: and in that random filling it can't keep track \
of the specific move order of the ladder
NemoEimi [?\]: there are people who do ladder reading in playouts, \
so it is possible
brainiaq [3k\]: you guys are right - expert system with lots of \
domain knowledge and search trees can read ladders just fine]
WL[40]OW[7];B[jp]
C[ErikE [6k\]: I am a programmer, and ladder reading isn't that \
hard.
wildclaw [3k?\]: brainiaq: Depends on which AI though. Some monte \
carlo algorithms with heavier playouts do trace ladders]
BL[40]OB[9];W[iq]
C[barbar [2d\]: mogo can read ladders what are you guys discussing?
Capsule [-\]: Mogo is actually just a class with a couple billion \
if statements.
klouk [13k\]: um, i've been programming for 10 years, and integrating \
2 different move algorithms is a bit hard  :)
che [-\]: what answers w if b c3?
brainiaq [3k\]: i guess it's a tradeoff
ErikE [6k\]: e6 group was a ladder that b kept extending]
WL[40]OW[7];B[hq]
C[antiriad [1k?\]: well, the least that could be done is add an \
additional ladder check afterwards that compares the result to \
any ladder, and asks to re-do it if it's a bad ladder
barbar [2d\]: e8-7-6 were time moves
HiwaKaoru [14k\]: who`s ahead?
Capsule [-\]: Mogo plays the nose tesuji!
Chilltime [5k\]: b]
BL[40]OB[9];W[hp]
C[ErikE [6k\]: I didn't say integtating is easy, just reading ladders \
:)
HiwaKaoru [14k\]: ty Chill.
poivron [9k\]: ladder escape ^^
Capsule [-\]: if Mogo knows the nose tesuji, it must be at least \
1-dan!]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ip]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: they do use local "tactical" search results to \
influence the exploration of possible moves]
BL[40]OB[9];W[hr]
C[matjet [2k\]: i would say white has to be careful of mogo actually \
using the bad ladder, except now the d12  group is too close \
to death and it doesn't matter much
brainiaq [3k\]: but they way they're incorporated makes it possible \
for the program to ignore them
che [-\]: Game is almost even now, so w will win it]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ir]
C[weirdchess [10k\]: no, white's way ahead now
antiriad [1k?\]: could a player trick mogo by just playing loads \
of ladders? :-s
CHOWstyle [3k\]: a14 instead wins for b right?
Goury [2k\]: I think this was a  confliction problem where black \
has g14 tesuji and bad ladder both.]
BL[40]OB[9];W[jr]
C[Capsule [-\]: I wonder if Mogo could break mirror go...
che [-\]: h3 clearly was a mistake
brainiaq [3k\]: yea i mean if it had that obvious weakness then \
pros would not be losing at 7 stones
Q161 [17k\]: blacks b19 and b13 groups are dead right?]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[js]BL[40]OB[9];W[kr]
C[Capsule [-\]: yes Q161.
Q161 [17k\]: so game over?
antiriad [1k?\]: well the pros arent familiar with the source \
code
Capsule [-\]: perhaps Q161.
brainiaq [3k\]: but they'd learn to trick it with ladders quick
Q161 [17k\]: k]
WL[40]OW[7];B[fn]
C[antiriad [1k?\]: not sure, we should probably ask the pros if \
that's so]
BL[40]OB[9];W[gn]
C[Xylol [15k\]: there he goes :-)
Capsule [-\]: looks like Mogo can't read ladders so well.
che [-\]: timesuji for a bot?
Capsule [-\]: rather bad timesuji
Goury [2k\]: well it has plenty of time]
WL[40]OW[7];B[lr]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: res coming soon
brainiaq [3k\]: i think]
BL[40]OB[9];W[gq]
C[Capsule [-\]: after all, the proverb says that for every stone \
you add to a broken ladder, it is 7 points.
weirdchess [10k\]: it still leaves about 7 seconds per move each \
move, and it has 9 byoyomi left..
weirdchess [10k\]: so it would be a bad use of timesuji]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ks]BL[40]OB[9];W[is]
C[Violence [?\]: wow...
Violence [?\]: what is Mogo doing?
matjet [2k\]: :)
Goury [2k\]: yes this is a blunder :)
FootofGod [3k\]: failing
che [-\]: capsule how is that 7 points (I hear that for the first \
time)?
CoDeR [5k\]: will resign soon (:
llook [?\]: it knows it is far behind and tries moves which would \
give it instant profit if w doesn't respond
FootofGod [3k\]: proving it is a program]
WL[40]OW[7];B[kh]
C[CoDeR [5k\]: when he understands that he's loosing
Capsule [-\]: it's hard to explain che.  
llook [?\]: yes]
BL[40]OB[9];W[kg]
C[CoDeR [5k\]: he does things like this (:
llook [?\]: it is a reasonable tactic for a computer
matjet [2k\]: it is it not he
che [-\]: too hard for you?
weirdchess [10k\]: basically the comp is looking for positions \
where a mouseslip by white would be greatly beneficial for him \
:)
NemoEimi [?\]: next year, it will play a stone better :)
Goury [2k\]: well humans do that too when they are 20k]
WL[40]OW[7]
;B[jf]
C[NattyIce [1k\]: where's the person who has the computer fuego \
win pct.?
CoDeR [5k\]: (:
NemoEimi [?\]: and the year after, another stone :)
Capsule [-\]: perhaps che...perhaps.
che [-\]: :)]
BL[40]OB[9];W[lh]
C[brainiaq [3k\]: i am embarassed for mogo now
Capsule [-\]: or maybe I just accept proverbs for what they are.
Ho229 [2k\]: pros do the same too, but on a higher level
llook [?\]: Goury, single digit kyus and even dans do it as well; \
only more gracefully perhaps :)
asdewka [12k\]: i think mogo need avatar O_O
weirdchess [10k\]: i refuse to believe this is the same program \
thats beated a 9p with only 7 stones]
WL[40]OW[7];B[ki]
C[FootofGod [3k\]: programmers are beating their heads against the \
desks.]
BL[40]OB[9];W[jg]
C[llook [?\]: no
poivron [9k\]: b can live in bottom left corner or not ?
FootofGod [3k\]: burning source codes
weirdchess [10k\]: beaten*
che [-\]: game over now
brainiaq [3k\]: i feel bad for the pro who has to sit there and \
play this 20k
che [-\]: w won 
FootofGod [3k\]: he prolly gets something out of it]
WL[40]OW[7];B[lg]
C[matjet [2k\]: earlier, yes, now that white is so thick, doubtful
FootofGod [3k\]: at very least its all good publicity]
BL[40]OB[9];W[lf]
C[CoDeR [5k\]: brainiaq i feel the same (:
brainiaq [3k\]: it's like, the bot is 4d until it's behind.  then \
it looses 25 stones.
weirdchess [10k\]: the thing is, the bot wasnt even behind in \
this game when it started playing ridiculous moves like g12
antiriad [1k?\]: well, playing a bad ladder means you lose the \
game, except if below 15k level
Xylol [15k\]: so bots wont win a even game that ast?
FootofGod [3k\]: once it gets out of recognizeable things, it \
could play a great move, or a move that just doesnt even make \
sense. Like of all the moves it could land on, how that one?
CHOWstyle [3k\]: 4d with 7 handi ehh
DooM [10k\]: huh??
Xylol [15k\]: review? :-)
brainiaq [3k\]: hahhaaha
sai9 [1d\]: mogo is player now?
Shadowrun [10k\]: i wonder how SE would play if he could play \
^^
Xylol [15k\]: se?
Jabba [5k\]: badly
Shadowrun [10k\]: score estimation]
WL[40]OW[7])
