(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go version 12.001]
SZ[9]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[nutngo]
PW[Mogo]
DT[2009-02-10]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[7.5]
TM[3000]
RU[Chinese]
RE[B+Resign]
C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (white): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)]
CA[UTF-8];B[de]BL[2979.037];W[fe]WL[2999.781];B[ff]BL[2968.033];W[gf]WL[2999.576];B[ef]BL[2894.361];W[gg]WL[2999.389];B[fd]BL[2887.895];W[ge]
C[mmueller [4d?\]: Hello. Is this the game against Zhou
mmueller [4d?\]: ?
Meepy [-\]: don't know]
WL[2999.206]
;B[ed]
C[Meepy [-\]: long enough time setting]
BL[2876.143];W[be]
C[Meepy [-\]: still, SD can be tough]
WL[2979.087];B[bf]
C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (white): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)
Gynn [13k?\]: lol
Gynn [13k?\]: That's a lot of time
NUTN309: yes ,  this is  the game against Zhou
truespirit [8k\]: looks like this can take a while
truespirit [8k\]: nice
Archaic [1d\]: who's zhou
pasky [-\]: MOGO  vs. Jun-Xun Zhou (Championship of 2007 LG World \
Cup/ 2008 Taiwan Championship, 9P)]
BL[2622.203];W[cf]
C[NUTN309: yes]
WL[2688.516];B[ce]
C[Daeton [6k\]: atari?
Archaic [1d\]: er
truespirit [8k\]: how strong is mogo on 9x9?
Archaic [1d\]: are computers good at 9x9
sameoldG [-\]: mogo is 9p on 9x9
Daeton [6k\]: better than 19x19
truespirit [8k\]: O_o
Accelerate [3k\]: how strong is nutngo? o.O
Kirby [2k\]: the pro is black?
Gynn [13k?\]: 9pro
truespirit [8k\]: 9p
Accelerate [3k\]: okay
Archaic [1d\]: is this a performance test
Archaic [1d\]: for computers
Kirby [2k\]: bleh, 7.5 komi
Archaic [1d\]: and algorithms
Kirby [2k\]: that sucks
pasky [-\]: kirby, why?
truespirit [8k\]: i dont really like computer go
truespirit [8k\]: but
Kirby [2k\]: 7.5 komi seems inappropriate for a 9x9 board
pasky [-\]: kirby, you might want to read tromp's excellent user \
info ;)
truespirit [8k\]: its interestin
Archaic [1d\]: is this some sort of...
Archaic [1d\]: anythin special about this
truespirit [8k\]: 7.5 is chinese komi?
Daeton [6k\]: other than it being a 9p vs. computer?
Wasiqi [13k\]: Isn't this two computers playing each other?
Kirby [2k\]: seems tromp's info is just about scoring methods
mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego thinks 53% for White
pasky [-\]: kirby: oh wait yes, i didn't read it carefully enough \
before
bolb [-\]: Zhou Junxun 9p vs MoGo
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: Thanks for the evaluation Martin!
Kirby [2k\]: are you the teacher, pasky?  some guy on kgs has \
a website with quizzes that you can print out and give to students
mmueller [4d?\]: On my old laptop :)
pasky [-\]: i thought it also explains why even and odd komi is \
equivalent in area scoring
pasky [-\]: kirby: huh?
Kirby [2k\]: ok nevermind
yank [?\]: Is there a komi?
Kirby [2k\]: maybe that was sabaki
mmueller [4d?\]: B3.B6,A4 forced, then?]
BL[2618.324];W[bg]
C[truespirit [8k\]: woah]
WL[2441.947];B[bd]
C[yank [?\]: Hi! NUTN, is there a komi?
tromp [-\]: Options->Rules
ImABad13k: options->rules
truespirit [8k\]: options-> rules
truespirit [8k\]: lol
ImABad13k: lol
DanielFox [-\]: options->space potatoes
truespirit [8k\]: lol
truespirit [8k\]: >_>
truespirit [8k\]: capture?
tromp [-\]: yes, w will capture
quasimoyo [2d\]: 100 minutes, its not too much for 9x9?
Gynn [13k?\]:  How can you tell?
truespirit [8k\]: so mogo is 0p on 9x9, thats pretty fantastic \
i think
truespirit [8k\]: 9p*
DanielFox [-\]: mogo needs the time, quasi
Oloril [2k\]: why not mogotitan?
Gynn [13k?\]: lol
mmueller [4d?\]: B needs to prevent D4 E5 E2
Kirby [2k\]: it's staged so the computer can win
Gynn [13k?\]: Why not Mogobot
HateToWin [?\]: i would like to see how good the bot is at blitz \
games ;)
Gynn [13k?\]: xD
DanielFox [-\]: not very!
truespirit [8k\]: i won in 5sec blitz against mogo
Archaic [1d\]: hi yank
truespirit [8k\]: and mogo took 9
DanielFox [-\]: rapyuta will be the last man standing against \
the robots
truespirit [8k\]: >_>
pasky [-\]: czechbot plays 10:00 SD 9x9 on a home computer and \
it's definitely kgs dan-level
truespirit [8k\]: hey
pasky [-\]: about 2d or 3d
yank [?\]: Hi, Archaic.
kuy30 [1d\]: what's hardware?
pasky [-\]: though that's not too blitz still ;)
truespirit [8k\]: the most awesome computer
tromp [-\]: well, i gues white cld consider g7 too
pasky [-\]: huy30: 600cpu huygens cluster]
BL[2610.336];W[af]
C[truespirit [8k\]: is a cellphone pprogram i had..]
WL[2226.982];B[eh]
C[HateToWin [?\]: it took it all that time to play the most obvious \
move.....
truespirit [8k\]: mogo needs to calculate no?
pasky [-\]: hatetowin, it's hard to distinguish obvious and non-obvious \
moves ;)
truespirit [8k\]: how many variations does mogo read?
Gynn [13k?\]: lol lets all guess what we thing the next move is: \
e3 
Kirby [2k\]: i would have played g6 instead of e2
quasimoyo [2d\]: this is the strongest bot, right?
HateToWin [?\]: thats why your 2k and he is 9p, kirby ;)
Oloril [2k\]: mogo lost to many faces of go I believe
XY0908 [-\]: So which one is the bot again?
Gynn [13k?\]: Mogo
pasky [-\]: kirby: did you count? :)
Kirby [2k\]: by playing g6 black gets the upper side, and w doesn't \
have much at bottom because he is split
Kirby [2k\]: seems reasonable to me
ketchup [4k\]: lol XY, best question asked so far
Kirby [2k\]: now w can take some of b's potential top territory
pasky [-\]: kirby: w has komi
truespirit [8k\]: xy0907
XY0908 [-\]: Kirby don't know how to count according to his wife.
Kirby [2k\]: it's true
truespirit [8k\]: is that graph coords xy?
Kirby [2k\]: i can only win by killing
pasky [-\]: kirby: b probably counted w would get enough points, \
with yose options along a6 etc.
ketchup [4k\]: komi..
pasky [-\]: kirby: it's so easy to slip to tight loss with mogo \
if you play the easy moves
mmueller [4d?\]: 54% now
Kirby [2k\]: however, maybe e2 is sente against the side so it's \
not so bad
XY0908 [-\]: let's predict what the bot would play next.
Kirby [2k\]: unless i read it wrong
XY0908 [-\]: I predict at D3
ketchup [4k\]: d3, f2, g2, g6, h6, a6 go go
pasky [-\]: i predict g7]
BL[2602.069];W[gd]
C[Kirby [2k\]: if g7 can't b c2?
pasky [-\]: c2 e8 is ok exchange for w
pasky [-\]: maybe even this is enough
Archaic [1d\]: no way b can win
kuy30 [1d\]: can b kill that group?
Kirby [2k\]: i think so
Kirby [2k\]: by c2 i think
tromp [-\]: c2 b2 b1 c3 w lives
Kirby [2k\]: c2 b2 c3
kuy30 [1d\]: how?
tromp [-\]: hmm
kuy30 [1d\]: how lives?
Archaic [1d\]: hey look
Archaic [1d\]: white's dead
LapinBlanc [2d?\]: White doesn't need to live, just to make 0.5 \
points more than black :)
ketchup [4k\]: yea why does it look like white's dead..
Meepy [-\]: c2, then white can b7 maybe?
ketchup [4k\]: in this case, needs to live to win lapinblanc :P
mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego likes C2 F7 for W
Kirby [2k\]: well if b kills this then w might get like 20ish \
points plus 7.5 komi and b gets like 37 points or something
Kirby [2k\]: i think
pasky [-\]: ketchup, that's not clear
kuy30 [1d\]: but there are questions about d4 e5 cut and c7 weakness
ketchup [4k\]: nothing is, but this is 9p...
pasky [-\]: depends on what magic w manages to pull off at the \
top
yank [?\]: Archaic, do you know how many points the komi is? 
pasky [-\]: ketchup: this is 600cpu cluster
Kirby [2k\]: how far can w go?  seems like f7 is the extent
Archaic [1d\]: 7.5
ketchup [4k\]: i put more faith in 9p :)
Kirby [2k\]: or f8
Kirby [2k\]: i think 9p has it
kuy30 [1d\]: I believe in MoGo
ketchup [4k\]: cant give up my humanity! :)
qwazidan [5k\]: c1
kuy30 [1d\]: future is not fir human
pasky [-\]: we will all die horrible death
mmueller [4d?\]: W can use aji of B3 group to get more at the \
top
DanielFox [-\]: what handicap will the 19x19 game be played at?
DanielFox [-\]: or is that to be determined
yank [?\]: I think 7.5 komi is too much for 9*9.
pasky [-\]: i think that will be determined
Kirby [2k\]: bleh, somebody pm me when the pro wins.  i'm going \
to do some work
ketchup [4k\]: lol
pasky [-\]: yank, afaik 7.5 and 6.5 is equivalent with chinese \
rules
kuy30 [1d\]: what's b thinking? are there better ways to kill \
than c2 ?
Archaic [1d\]: it's chinese rules
Archaic [1d\]: ?
sleep [12k\]: just curious what country is the 9p from?
ketchup [4k\]: b thinking, if i kill is it enough
Archaic [1d\]: how is 6.5 the same as 7.5
ketchup [4k\]: taiwan i believe
qwazidan [5k\]: komi is identical for games 9x9 and larger
ketchup [4k\]: http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009/English/schedule_eng.htm
Archaic [1d\]: your saying using both 6.5 and 7.5 is same for \
chinese rules
tromp [-\]: they're quite different]
WL[2021.416]
;B[gc]
C[ketchup [4k\]: i think this is the site
tromp [-\]: 6.5 is like 5.5
mmueller [4d?\]: G7 is also strong
tromp [-\]: and 7.5 like 8.5
mmueller [4d?\]: oops :)
yank [?\]: Ya, I am from Taiwan.
Archaic [1d\]: what
kuy30 [1d\]: that's the move
tromp [-\]: since even area difference unlikely
kuy30 [1d\]: he was thinking about
mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego also likes G7 at longer search
pasky [-\]: archaic, there is extensive discussion at http://senseis.xmp.net/?WhyChineseKomiShouldIncreaseBy2PointSteps
pasky [-\]: tromp: oops, i did not realize that, thanks :)
pasky [-\]: yeah, it's written there
pasky [-\]: i should go to sleep :/]
BL[2292.304];W[dg]
C[tromp [-\]: h7]
WL[1832.906];B[hc]
C[Oloril [2k\]: looks bad for white?
ketchup [4k\]: b+3! haha
tromp [-\]: looks bleak for black
tromp [-\]: for white i mean
XY0908 [-\]: please do not give hints to 9p, tromp. ;-)
mmueller [4d?\]: D3 losing move maybe
kuy30 [1d\]: w will try to use e5 and c6 weaknesses
ketchup [4k\]: isnt d3 only move there mmueller?
Archaic [1d\]: f2
pasky [-\]: do something crazy with the e5 cut?
mmueller [4d?\]: 45% now
mmueller [4d?\]: I think for D3, H7 was the natural move
kuy30 [1d\]: for who?
Archaic [1d\]: f222222
ketchup [4k\]: no good
sleep [12k\]: does anyone know how much time the 19x19 game will \
have?
kuy30 [1d\]: e3 now?]
BL[2249.591];W[fh]
C[Archaic [1d\]: haha
ketchup [4k\]: white wil lget reduced from both sides..]
WL[1664.276];B[eg]
C[ketchup [4k\]: no way to get both h6 and d2?
Archaic [1d\]: j6666
Archaic [1d\]: a666
yank [?\]: I guess b wins even if both w groups alive.
pasky [-\]: so, c7 and make life ^^
Archaic [1d\]: d2
Archaic [1d\]: h6
mmueller [4d?\]: 42%
Archaic [1d\]: 42% success rate for who]
BL[2246.497];W[dh]WL[1510.46];B[di]
C[CHOWstyle [3k\]: %100 for b from what I count
mmueller [4d?\]: Mogo has 42% according to Fuego
Zvi [3k\]: is this a 9x9 tournament ?
Zeid [2d\]: yeah
Archaic [1d\]: h6 or j6 now
Zvi [3k\]: cool. didn't know they had those
maku [4d\]: B5 is toooo bad
andrew [3d\]: nutngo is 9p?
Zeid [2d\]: yeah
tromp [-\]: a6
Ukasuhs [1k\]: i count b + 1.5
Zvi [3k\]: why doesn't kgs have 9x9 ranking then ?
Zeid [2d\]: yeah
iTengen [5k\]: 2ranks?
flipflop [4k\]: Chess servers do it
iTengen [5k\]: hmhm
Zvi [3k\]: well, if they have tournaments for it, you should be \
able to get a rank for it, don't you think ?]
BL[2240.557];W[cd]
C[Archaic [1d\]: what the heck is c6
aware [2k\]: whoa
Ukasuhs [1k\]: white is a bot
Zvi [3k\]: :\\
Ukasuhs [1k\]: so its more of an evaluation that a tournament
Zvi [3k\]: looks like -1 point
Zeid [2d\]: yeah]
WL[1359.284];B[cc]
C[arlefferts [23k\]: strange
CHOWstyle [3k\]: I dont understand c6
DanielFox [-\]: could mean mogo has given up
andrew [3d\]: don't anthropomorphize robots
Zvi [3k\]: i don't either. also i'd guess black would play b7 \
instead of c7
Meepy [-\]: c6 is a peep
arlefferts [23k\]: how does a computer give up?
Nefri89 [9k\]: yeah =)
DanielFox [-\]: andrew, i am not
Nefri89 [9k\]: hah
lonsan [3k\]: yeah is b7 not better?
bolb [-\]: when mogo is losing, it try weird moves
fly [1k\]: when it can't see wins in any lines it plays crazy \
chances
Ukasuhs [1k\]: b7 is really not any better but not any worse
DanielFox [-\]: mogo's moves get random because it is trying to \
maximize a win for a losing proposition
andrew [3d\]: first you anthropomorphize them, then next they're \
enslaving our women, overthrowing our governments, relegating \
us to lives of brutal slavery
pasky [-\]: i wonder what the 9p is doing now
blackdoor [6d\]: computer thinks so long?
lonsan [3k\]: don't you earn one extra point due to a6?
andrew [3d\]: I'm just warning you
pasky [-\]: chatting with others? reading a newspaper?
Archaic [1d\]: c6 has a certain complexity
CHOWstyle [3k\]: so hard to count for bot?
andrew [3d\]: beware the robot menace]
BL[2213.843];W[ad]
C[Zvi [3k\]: he's a lazy bot]
WL[1247.243]
;B[bc]
C[BenMantle [3d\]: that would be two extra
Gynn [13k?\]: lol
Meepy [-\]: c6 makes d4 juicier
Ukasuhs [1k\]: if b played b7 instead he still cant respond to \
a6 with a7 or there will be a big ko
lonsan [3k\]: yeah, two extra
fly [1k\]: ah... counting is what these mogo bots are good at!
BenMantle [3d\]: i dont think the pro's atari was good.  it's \
clear..
Ukasuhs [1k\]: so none extra and none lost
Zvi [3k\]: d4 juice doesn't look like much :p
lonsan [3k\]: ah true
Ukasuhs [1k\]: unless b will risk like 18 points...
lonsan [3k\]: no i think it's right ben
Ukasuhs [1k\]: in ko
blackdoor [6d\]: must be 386
lonsan [3k\]: probably commodore 500
blackdoor [6d\]: so slow
lonsan [3k\]: my comm 500 lags when playing pac man
Ukasuhs [1k\]: b is winning anyway, so he doesnt need to play \
b7. b7 is only better if black has a lot more ko threats than \
white
Gynn [13k?\]: Dans don't play slow like this right?
Ukasuhs [1k\]: otherwise black would end in the same result
andrew [3d\]: well, the computer is calculating /every/ possible \
sequence of moves;)
Ukasuhs [1k\]: or chose to play a heavy ko
andrew [3d\]: hehehe]
BL[2210.852];W[hd]
C[BenMantle [3d\]: good-a-move]
WL[1138.496];B[ch]
C[inte [?\]: nah it isn't
Zvi [3k\]: again, this is chinese rules :\\ c6 is -1 points
Mercury [5k?\]: is this bot vs bot?
Ukasuhs [1k\]: no
Ukasuhs [1k\]: b is 9p
Zvi [3k\]: so this is a tough bot then ?
Auro [?\]: your kidding
Korlon [3k\]: Go Mogo go
Ukasuhs [1k\]: wel bots are tough on 9x9
Cleasha [5d?\]: Is Nutngo a current pro or retired?
Auro [?\]: >.>
Auro [?\]: a 9x9
Auro [?\]: lol
andrew [3d\]: b2 only move
Gregory [2k?\]: 7.5 komi is high on 9x9, imho
Mercury [5k?\]: dead b ot is dead
Ukasuhs [1k\]: i think this is too much time for a 9x9
NUTN309: http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009/English/news_eng.php
bolb [-\]: http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009/English/schedule_eng.htm
aware [2k\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?ZhouJunxun
Korlon [3k\]: If wite ever plays E5, that C6 would've been an \
extra point
Zvi [3k\]: whats about f1 before b2 ?
tadanobu [10k\]: Jun-Xun Zhou  is a taiwan 9p, not retired at \
all
BenMantle [3d\]: b2............
Zvi [3k\]: why not f1 first ?
MonkehKid [-\]: its a 9x9, then another 9x9, then a 19x19, auro]
BL[2204.441];W[bh]
C[loveHER [6d\]: thi is so slow~_~
blackdoor [6d\]: f1 c3]
WL[1042.838];B[bi]
C[Zvi [3k\]: oh sorry right
Zvi [3k\]: thanks
Ukasuhs [1k\]: now f1 maybe
BenMantle [3d\]: w must respond, that's sad
sedgwick [4d\]: and b get a7 sente:)
andrew [3d\]: lol
BenMantle [3d\]: f1 is not important because opponent wont go \
there soon
Ukasuhs [1k\]: this is very bad for w because a7 is sente for \
b
Ukasuhs [1k\]: so b will get a7 and j6
Korlon [3k\]: Will the games be right after one another?
MonkehKid [-\]: i think so
Archaic [1d\]: tenuki
BenMantle [3d\]: heh
pasky [-\]: lol
yank [?\]: b+1.5 or +0.5?
blackdoor [6d\]: this mogo needs some experiences]
BL[2198.17];W[cg]
C[Archaic [1d\]: dumb bot doesn't know how to tenuki
DonValley [5d?\]: ko or no?]
WL[954.308];B[ci]
C[Zvi [3k\]: err?
BenMantle [3d\]: ko him haha
Zvi [3k\]: c3 mistake ?
Ukasuhs [1k\]: b is winning by 2.5 now i think
pasky [-\]: e5
Zvi [3k\]: oh
blackdoor [6d\]: e5
Zvi [3k\]: c3 miai
MonkehKid [-\]: there werent any ko threats for b...
Zvi [3k\]: nvm
BenMantle [3d\]: w more k othreats
jabbawocky [1k\]: 7.5 komi is crazy
blackdoor [6d\]: what ko?
tadanobu [10k\]: ( if respecting the planning, next game will \
begin in about 1 hour )
Archaic [1d\]: can anybody explain c3
saimic [4k\]: yup. w wins because it has more ko threats.
Archaic [1d\]: imo c3 for white gets rid of black's ko threats
tromp [-\]: b +3.5
Archaic [1d\]: but that's all i can see
blackdoor [6d\]: c3 dumb bot move
Zvi [3k\]: archaic, black would have played c1 before the ko
shiranai [11k\]: will it be broadcasted on kgs?
Zvi [3k\]: or am i wrong ?
BenMantle [3d\]: or timesuji
Zvi [3k\]: lol]
BL[2191.963];W[fc]
C[pasky [-\]: hoho
Zvi [3k\]: :S???
pasky [-\]: topmastercut
loveHER [6d\]: why does this thing cut everything
Archaic [1d\]: al i can see is that c3...gets rid of black's ko \
threats]
WL[872.576];B[ec]
C[Archaic [1d\]: if there is a future ko
blackdoor [6d\]: good move
BenMantle [3d\]: move of god
Zvi [3k\]: white wasting threats ?
pasky [-\]: "thing":))
DnFBlitz [1k\]: i counted w wins before that... 
DnFBlitz [1k\]: i guess i missed
DonValley [5d?\]: that was a good move :)
Mercury [5k?\]: indeed
saimic [4k\]: b needs ko threats to kill w on the left side.
Ukasuhs [1k\]: and why would b play ko when he wins without it
kuy30 [1d\]: trying to create adji
Mercury [5k?\]: does white get 1 more pt for that?
BenMantle [3d\]: since b atari this way, j 7 a bit stronger/more \
sente
blackdoor [6d\]: there is no ko
saimic [4k\]: how strong in mogo?]
BL[2177.694];W[ah]
C[DonValley [5d?\]: mogo can beat pros in 9-9
saimic [4k\]: not now.]
WL[797.811]
;B[id]
C[Archaic [1d\]: did f7 raelly do anything
Mercury [5k?\]: yes
BenMantle [3d\]: it sorta did
BenMantle [3d\]: liek i said
Mercury [5k?\]: it has potential to make him kill it later
Zvi [3k\]: :\\
DonValley [5d?\]: yeah it did
Mercury [5k?\]: i dono with j 6 havent read it no
BenMantle [3d\]: b played here to prevent what i said
BenMantle [3d\]: however...
BenMantle [3d\]: a 7 sente..]
BL[2165.69];W[ie]WL[729.707];B[ic]
C[Archaic [1d\]: ?
Ukasuhs [1k\]: whoah
DonValley [5d?\]: a7 huge
Archaic [1d\]: what does f7 do
jabbawocky [1k\]: e5 first
Mercury [5k?\]: f8
jabbawocky [1k\]: e5
pasky [-\]: i think half a point win is brewing for w
Ukasuhs [1k\]: w + 0.5 if he gets a7 a8 a5 b8 
Zvi [3k\]: f8 g8
Mercury [5k?\]: then g 8 then
Mercury [5k?\]: e 8
jabbawocky [1k\]: e5 
BenMantle [3d\]: f 7 made it so that white's j 7 would end in \
sente for sure
Zvi [3k\]: then d8 ..
Mercury [5k?\]: then u push the e5
Mercury [5k?\]: and u force black to kill that
Zvi [3k\]: still doesn't work
Zvi [3k\]: this isn't japanese scoring
Mercury [5k?\]: it does]
BL[2160.335];W[fb]
C[Mercury [5k?\]: if bottom has no libirties]
WL[669.884];B[gb]
C[Zvi [3k\]: but it does has libs
Zvi [3k\]: and it's chinese rules ..
pasky [-\]: not soon
Mercury [5k?\]: ya
Zvi [3k\]: so white is losing points ..
Ukasuhs [1k\]: w can win
Ukasuhs [1k\]: a7
slinky [-\]: poor mogo bot.
Mercury [5k?\]: but it will not have libirties later
DnFBlitz [1k\]: i wonder if w's endgame at this point is close \
to perfect
Mercury [5k?\]: and then its inevitable
Mercury [5k?\]: what will happen
Zvi [3k\]: :\\
Zvi [3k\]: i'm explaining this isn't japanese rules
jabbawocky [1k\]: e5 clearly best move
Zvi [3k\]: it's chinese rules
Ukasuhs [1k\]: i know
Zvi [3k\]: so white is just losing points
pasky [-\]: zvi: so what?]
BL[2156.795];W[ga]
C[Ukasuhs [1k\]: i counted using chinese]
WL[613.656];B[eb]
C[Mercury [5k?\]: what is chinese rules?
DonValley [5d?\]: the rules chinese use
jabbawocky [1k\]: w doesnt lose points if b responds
Zvi [3k\]: well, mercury claims that the semidori will cost black \
points
frog [12k\]: why are so many people watc;hing this game
quasimoyo [2d\]: rules from China
Ukasuhs [1k\]: territory and live stones are each 1 point
truman [3d\]: i count w wins by half
Zvi [3k\]: and i'm explaining it wont
Mercury [5k?\]: not now lol
Ukasuhs [1k\]: dead stones are no points for either
blackdoor [6d\]: w +1.5
Troff [?\]: Why does EVERY kgs game's kibitz devolve into a debate \
about Japanese and Chinese counting. WITHOUT FAIL.
Ukasuhs [1k\]: 7.5 komi
BenMantle [3d\]: b + 9 without komi at the end i think
Zvi [3k\]: mercury, in chinese rules playing in your own territory \
doesn't cost points
BenMantle [3d\]: in japanese
truman [3d\]: blackdoor's count is probably better :)
Gynn [13k?\]: Unless Mogo rins out of time =s
Gynn [13k?\]: runs*
Mercury [5k?\]: i dont under stand g 9 tho ;p
pasky [-\]: zvi: it will - w fills dame so gaining extra stones \
on board, while b fills own territory, his score staying the \
same
arpad [?\]: i count b by a half because of A1]
BL[2152.852];W[ac]
C[Ukasuhs [1k\]: if w gets a7 in sente he wins by 0.5
slinky [-\]: no he dont
pasky [-\]: zvi: japanese and chinese rules are much more similar \
point-wise than one would think]
WL[561.493];B[ab]
C[iTengen [5k\]: yeah but in semedori you get dame which is worth \
points, while your opponent fills in her territory, which isnt
Mercury [5k?\]: what is komi?
Ukasuhs [1k\]: because e5 is sente and then after a1 e1 f1 b cant \
play f3
iTengen [5k\]: baby dont hurt me?
jabbawocky [1k\]: chinese and jap scoring differ by a max of one \
point, thats why the komi is one point higher
Zvi [3k\]: but semidori still doesn't make one lose points pasky
kuy30 [1d\]: b will try to kill
CptObvious [?\]: Troff, that is new, actually there should be \
a discussion, wether white is tartrate...
slinky [-\]: komi is .5 points or 6.5 to white for going second
blackdoor [6d\]: w should e5 f1 first
slinky [-\]: and to prevent ties
pasky [-\]: zvi: yes but w will _gain_ points
Ukasuhs [1k\]: komi is 7.5...]
BL[2142.556];W[ae]
C[Mercury [5k?\]: 7.5]
WL[516.16]
;B[if]
C[Mercury [5k?\]: lol
jabbawocky [1k\]: hmm
DonValley [5d?\]: lol chinese japanese rules might not matter \
anymore
pasky [-\]: zvi: in japanese rules w score is same but b loses \
points - in chinese rules w score is gaining while b stays the \
same - the end effect is the same
truman [3d\]: it doesn't work.
DnFBlitz [1k\]: seems w is desperate?
truman [3d\]: correction shouldn't
Zvi [3k\]: not here pasky
Zvi [3k\]: err :\\
Zvi [3k\]: read what mercury said]
BL[2139.806];W[he]
C[Zvi [3k\]: then you'll understand what i was talking about
Mercury [5k?\]: k 5 should not work
Archaic [1d\]: this is one big confusion pot
Mercury [5k?\]: j 4
Mercury [5k?\]: &|*
Ukasuhs [1k\]: with japanese rules its b + 0.5. with chinese its \
w + 0.5
Mercury [5k?\]: im not 5 k btw ;p
mmueller [4d?\]: h2
saimic [4k\]: h2
ketchup [4k\]: b8..
Zvi [3k\]: doesn't matter if you are :\\ you could be 5d , what \
you said is wrong]
WL[472.149];B[hh]
C[ozimandias [4k\]: and with taiwaneese ?
iTengen [5k\]: awesome
ozimandias [4k\]: ^^
Archaic [1d\]: f1
Mercury [5k?\]: no it was right but i think white made a  mistake
fly [1k\]: b goes for the throat
hiss [22k\]: why komi agains pro? that's unfair!
Mercury [5k?\]: :P
Zvi [3k\]: :/
jabbawocky [1k\]: f1 ...
iTengen [5k\]: lol
pasky [-\]: so how much sente f1 is
blackdoor [6d\]: f1 right move
ketchup [4k\]: hiss.... pros are not invincible]
BL[2099.327];W[gh]
C[Zvi [3k\]: re-read, i'm pretty sure with what i said. in japanese \
rules what you said it effective
jabbawocky [1k\]: wow]
WL[433.984];B[hg]
C[Zvi [3k\]: lies ketchup :)
Mercury [5k?\]: why doesnt he just play f1 e 5
ketchup [4k\]: lol zvi
Mercury [5k?\]: wierd stuff
jabbawocky [1k\]: black makes points here
Archaic [1d\]: kooooo
DonValley [5d?\]: f1 might not be sente later
blackdoor [6d\]: f1
pasky [-\]: e5 loses a liberty now
sefil3k [3k\]: f1 first
Mercury [5k?\]: well before
Mercury [5k?\]: he coulda done it
ketchup [4k\]: i dont understand why bto continues to play
sefil3k [3k\]: then h1 w
ketchup [4k\]: isnt this over now?
Mercury [5k?\]: and taken sente
pasky [-\]: mercury, then he would lose a liberty before :)
WBuffet [4d\]: if w can makes it right here, I really admire the \
programmers, :)]
BL[2091.232];W[gi]
C[hiss [22k\]: that's weakness of MoGo!
DonValley [5d?\]: lol
fly [1k\]: ko!
sefil3k [3k\]: woa ko
pasky [-\]: hah
Zvi [3k\]: :S
iTengen [5k\]: no ko!
sefil3k [3k\]: bot wants ko
Mercury [5k?\]: he didnt need libertys b4
saimic [4k\]: :P
Ukasuhs [1k\]: g1 is a nice move
Zvi [3k\]: does he have to ko?
blackdoor [6d\]: this bot is dumb
Mercury [5k?\]: he had eye shape b4 ;P
slinky [-\]: I already saw this coming!]
WL[396.485];B[ei]
C[Archaic [1d\]: lol
Mercury [5k?\]: g!
Mercury [5k?\]: wtf
sefil3k [3k\]: j2 ko to life
Archaic [1d\]: j2
blackdoor [6d\]: should f1 h1
jabbawocky [1k\]: i am confused
Archaic [1d\]: saves a point over h1
Mercury [5k?\]: same ;p
jabbawocky [1k\]: mogo is weak]
BL[2075.103];W[bb]
C[DonValley [5d?\]: lol
fly [1k\]: ha ha ha
Daeton [6k\]: ??]
WL[364.975];B[cb]
C[WBuffet [4d\]: hahaa
Gynn [13k?\]: XD
DonValley [5d?\]: lol
Akagi316 [6k?\]: resign
sefil3k [3k\]: seki?
Zvi [3k\]: ko, it seems
ketchup [4k\]: doesnt matter
blackdoor [6d\]: ok may be bot wins
ketchup [4k\]: count means black wins~
DonValley [5d?\]: w can lie down there
pasky [-\]: ;))
DonValley [5d?\]: live]
BL[2067.808];W[aa]WL[336.039]
;B[ih]
C[Zvi [3k\]: :S?
Mercury [5k?\]: oh?
DnFBlitz [1k\]: lol
WBuffet [4d\]: w is so humourous
Zvi [3k\]: did whtie simply die ?
Akagi316 [6k?\]: yes
Zvi [3k\]: lol
Ukasuhs [1k\]: j1
Mercury [5k?\]: but he will still lose
pasky [-\]: j1
Ukasuhs [1k\]: oh nvm
jabbawocky [1k\]: j1 stupid
pasky [-\]: vital point, no?
blackdoor [6d\]: dead
hiss [22k\]: seki enough for b
ketchup [4k\]: j1 give eye?
truman [3d\]: nice
DonValley [5d?\]: j1 tenuki
pasky [-\]: oh lol
iTengen [5k\]: j1 super dumb surely
jabbawocky [1k\]: j1 j3]
BL[2061.002];W[fa]
C[truman [3d\]: it's not a seki
DnFBlitz [1k\]: just nothing]
WL[309.355];B[ha]
C[pasky [-\]: ok ok :))
DnFBlitz [1k\]: just dead
ketchup [4k\]: lol
Ukasuhs [1k\]: j1 is just gote
Gynn [13k?\]: lol
Zvi [3k\]: bot is desperate? :O
Korlon [3k\]: Resign time
floss [5k\]: don't escape, bot!
sefil3k [3k\]: what was g9?
Mercury [5k?\]: lolol
Gynn [13k?\]: bot is VERY desperate
DonValley [5d?\]: haha
blackdoor [6d\]: kick this bot out
ketchup [4k\]: ah time problems
Archaic [1d\]: what was f9 u mean]
BL[2057.05];W[ii]
C[Zvi [3k\]: bot should escape :p
Mercury [5k?\]: get a new bot
Zvi [3k\]: LOL
Ukasuhs [1k\]: c9
jabbawocky [1k\]: lolsuji]
WL[284.196];B[ee]
C[DnFBlitz [1k\]: it would be nice if the programmers could comment \
on it :)
Rakeliem [1d\]: lol lolsuji
ketchup [4k\]: the time difference is a lot still..]
BL[2050.94];W[dc]
C[Archaic [1d\]: this is way complicated
Zvi [3k\]: ??????????
sefil3k [3k\]: d7?]
WL[262.079];B[ca]
C[truman [3d\]: yeah but it's not like b will suddenly start using \
it.
sefil3k [3k\]: 30k or what?
Zvi [3k\]: this is sad
truman [3d\]: (the time, i mean)
Mercury [5k?\]: no its just noob now
jabbawocky [1k\]: wait, w took 50 mintes??
Mercury [5k?\]: was complicated then bot just failed hard]
BL[2044.795];W[ab]
C[Zvi [3k\]: lol
Zvi [3k\]: ???
ketchup [4k\]: truman, i mean for white, the amount of time it \
takes is just too much..
Ukasuhs [1k\]: bot is programmed to use all the time it is given
Daeton [6k\]: heh
Zvi [3k\]: what is a8? :\\
Zeid [2d\]: w got 2 points =)
tadanobu [10k\]: White is a bot with good time programming, it \
had 50 minutes, it used them...]
WL[241.768];B[df]
C[pasky [-\]: does mogo still have problems with nakade?
arpad [?\]: w has trouble seeing that G1 is dead
pasky [-\]: maybe it doesn't actually recognize it's dead
pasky [-\]: i've heard they were fixing this though]
BL[2029.772];W[ea]
C[tuerda [1k\]: mogo like kgs mascot
Zvi [3k\]: ignore lol
Ukasuhs [1k\]: Zeid, its chinese scoring, so w got 27.5 points
sefil3k [3k\]: e9?
Nefri89 [9k\]: =S]
WL[223.102]
;B[da]
C[Archaic [1d\]: ??????????????????????
ketchup [4k\]: what's e9?
arpad [?\]: it still has trouble with the 5stones form
Akagi316 [6k?\]: w is so good
hiss [22k\]: w doesn't see it dead yet
Akagi316 [6k?\]: lol lol
Mercury [5k?\]: e9 is time using move
Nefri89 [9k\]: yea
truespirit [8k\]: O_o
jabbawocky [1k\]: e9 is timesuji is SD
Mercury [5k?\]: cuz it must use its time
pasky [-\]: arpad, ouch :(
Archaic [1d\]: no threats now for white
Mercury [5k?\]: L:]
BL[2023.888];W[db]
C[ketchup [4k\]: lol jabbawocky
Korlon [3k\]: o_O
arpad [?\]: yep :(
Archaic [1d\]: what?
Gynn [13k?\]: XD]
WL[206.135];B[dd]
C[Zvi [3k\]: :(((
Kirby [2k\]: behold, the power of computer go
arlefferts [23k\]: ?
MonkehKid [-\]: lol...
Nefri89 [9k\]: yea he goes for it
myongstu [-\]: it seems mojo got worse
Zvi [3k\]: i can't watch this
Mercury [5k?\]: WHITE NEEDS TO USE AL:L THE TIME or it will barke
jabbawocky [1k\]: hahaha
mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego also has trouble with this
Archaic [1d\]: at first i was thinking there was some utter complexity \
to this
arlefferts [23k\]: bot gave up
Archaic [1d\]: then i realize it's computer stupidity
Archaic [1d\]: now
Zvi [3k\]: white is playing "please resign" moves rofl
DonValley [5d?\]: yay
jabbawocky [1k\]: aww
iTengen [5k\]: WOOP
pasky [-\]: nice
Gynn [13k?\]: lol
jabbawocky [1k\]: dang
pasky [-\]: it did notice it after all
Zvi [3k\]: great game :)
blackdoor [6d\]: wow it knows how to resign
jabbawocky [1k\]: 9p the best
Archaic [1d\]: i'll study this to see if the wierd moves were \
actually insightful
myongstu [-\]: after losing his group, mogo was like a desperate \
20k
Archaic [1d\]: or computer idiocy
ShadowLink [9k\]: xD
Mercury [5k?\]: yar
Mercury [5k?\]: but he never lost it
jabbawocky [1k\]: computer has feelings too
Mercury [5k?\]: just lost the points
jabbawocky [1k\]: dont be mean
Kirby [2k\]: i'm sorry to the computer.  i only meant to be mean \
to the programmers
jabbawocky [1k\]: ah
jabbawocky [1k\]: thats ok
ozimandias [4k\]: no "thanks for the game" ?
ozimandias [4k\]: xD
jabbawocky [1k\]: he didnt even comment or review
Archaic [1d\]: hmm
Archaic [1d\]: j1 killed his group
Korlon [3k\]: Was already dead
jabbawocky [1k\]: his group was already dead no?
jabbawocky [1k\]: yes
nutn307: hi! everybody
Archaic [1d\]: o yea
jabbawocky [1k\]: bc white could h4 after libs were filled
nutn307: we have oen website
nutn307: http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009
Archaic [1d\]: so i guess
Archaic [1d\]: i'll just look over f7 and c6
Archaic [1d\]: to see what was special about it
Archaic [1d\]: probably computer stupidity
kuy30 [1d\]: I think MoGo won't be able to win pros stably until \
they eliminate that weakness
DanielFox [-\]: what would you do if you won a pro? I 'm not sure \
what i'd feed him
Archaic [1d\]: what weakness
Archaic [1d\]: i'd feed him more processing power
Archaic [1d\]: until he develops his own consciousness
kuy30 [1d\]: 600 cpu is not enough for you?
Archaic [1d\]: the b pro
Archaic [1d\]: might've just played c7
Archaic [1d\]: because
Archaic [1d\]: he wanted to speed it up
Archaic [1d\]: not for any particular reason
kuy30 [1d\]: board is too small, cpu won't help is program has \
weakness
kuy30 [1d\]: mogo just didn't see kill
Archaic [1d\]: o
Archaic [1d\]: this game is way hard to program
Archaic [1d\]: compared with chess
kuy30 [1d\]: yes, it is
Archaic [1d\]: okiee
Archaic [1d\]: i'm gonna look at ..
kuy30 [1d\]: though rules are simple
Archaic [1d\]: c6 move now
Archaic [1d\]: come see if u find anything special
CHOWstyle [3k\]: computer needs some shape knowledge I guess
aware [2k\]: is the rematch computer with bot b without komi? \
- would be nice
Archaic [1d\]: with c6 and f7 moves
aware [2k\]: -computer:)
pasky [-\]: well this seemed to be played evenly
pasky [-\]: no need to drop the komi right away
pasky [-\]: after two losses maybe
aware [2k\]: k
kuy30 [1d\]: I do not think mogo uses any knowladge at all
pasky [-\]: what do you mean?
pasky [-\]: mogo uses some patterns
Archaic [1d\]: bleh
kuy30 [1d\]: really?
arpad [?\]: quite a lot actually
kuy30 [1d\]: it has heavy playouts?
arpad [?\]: yes]
BL[2018.081])
