(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go version 12.001]
SZ[9]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[Mogo]
PW[nutngo]
DT[2009-02-10]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[7.5]
TM[3000]
RU[Chinese]
RE[W+Resign]
C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)]
CA[UTF-8];B[ee]BL[2999.385];W[ge]WL[2988.283];B[gf]
C[tromp [-\]: f4]
BL[2999.174];W[ce]WL[2890.734];B[eg]BL[2998.947];W[hf]WL[2835.573];B[dc]
C[yoyoma [1d\]: oh mogo is in opening book?
yoyoma [1d\]: 7 moves deep even!
yoyoma [1d\]: I'm guessing it because mogo used almost no time
maszrum [-\]: who is nutngo?
pasky [-\]: MOGO  vs. Jun-Xun Zhou (Championship of 2007 LG World \
Cup/ 2008 Taiwan Championship, 9P)
aware [2k\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?ZhouJunxun
MonkehKid [-\]: some 9p
maszrum [-\]: thx
nutn307: nutngo is Jun-Xun Zhou!]
BL[2998.689];W[cc]
C[nutn307: http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009/English/schedule_eng.htm
nutn307: the website is our schedule .
yoyoma [1d\]: NUTN = National University of Tainan.  nutngo = \
a generic account from there.  and right now, Jun-Xun Zhou is \
making the moves for nutngo
maszrum [-\]: is mogo running on a cluster?
pasky [-\]: 600 cpu
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll \
resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you \
passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some \
stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will \
agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have \
not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play \
until the end :'( (very rare cases)
yank [?\]: So what would be the komi for this afternoon's 19*19 \
game?
yank [?\]: Sorry, handicap.
yoyoma [1d\]: I read somewhere on the website it's 6H for 9p and \
5H for 1p
pasky [-\]: i'd expect it to also be based on the result of this \
game
pasky [-\]: wow, really so little?]
WL[2544.204]
;B[cb]
C[yoyoma [1d\]: well CrazyStone beat Kaori Aoba 4p at 7H
yoyoma [1d\]: so it's time for 6H  :)]
BL[2435.797];W[dd]
C[yank [?\]: However, judged by the first game, I think H8 or H9 \
may be appropriate vs Chou 9P. 
yank [?\]: Unless MoGo wins this game.
yoyoma [1d\]: judged on a *even* 9x9 game eh?
yoyoma [1d\]: barely lose even 9x9 game = H9??
yank [?\]: MoGo and the like are much weaker in 19*19. 
yoyoma [1d\]: I agree but your statement about the result of the \
first 9x9 means it should be H9 is a stretch I think
yank [?\]: We shall know it this afternoon.
yoyoma [1d\]: yes  :)]
WL[2497.969];B[ed]
C[MonkehKid [-\]: who is "CrazyStone" yoyoma?]
BL[2218.954];W[db]
C[maszrum [-\]: probably the strongest bot
ketchup [4k\]: for those interested: http://www.computer-go.info/h-c/index.html
ketchup [4k\]: past games of bots vs pros
MonkehKid [-\]: oh, i see
ketchup [4k\]: with sgfs]
WL[2477.726];B[ec]BL[2020.975];W[bb]
C[yoyoma [1d\]: white looks pretty favorable to me right now
yank [?\]: Almost no hope for b with 7.5 komi.]
WL[2474.336];B[gg]BL[1823.817];W[gc]
C[tromp [-\]: what if h6?
tromp [-\]: i guess b e8 is not sente enough...
mmueller [4d?\]: h6,g6,h5,e8
mmueller [4d?\]: fuego main line is e8,h3
tromp [-\]: right; w will h3 after h6 g6 e8]
WL[2470.053];B[eb]BL[1645.944];W[hg]
C[tromp [-\]: w comfy
mmueller [4d?\]: 43% for B
tromp [-\]: in what % of cases does the program recover from being \
43% against similar strength program?
mmueller [4d?\]: rarely :)
tromp [-\]: i thought as much:)
pasky [-\]: mmueller, do you know what hw is the fuegobot 2k on \
kgs?]
WL[2463.027]
;B[bd]
C[mmueller [4d?\]: unless there is a systematic problem
pasky [-\]: and is it any special settings, or should i achieve \
the same if i just grab the latest svn with defaults?
mmueller [4d?\]: it is on an 8core, 2.5GHz Xeon
pasky [-\]: oh nice
royalty [3d\]: mogo is stong 
mmueller [4d?\]: It is the 0.3 version
pasky [-\]: so mine probably won't be 2k, ok ;)
mmueller [4d?\]: Yes, Fuego also liked B6
mmueller [4d?\]: They are very much alike :)
pasky [-\]: how does b6 work?
royalty [3d\]: pasky is not stong
mmueller [4d?\]: it is kind of a probe, but I don't think it does \
much
pasky [-\]: i know :(
royalty [3d\]: c6 d9 b5 
royalty [3d\]: for example
royalty [3d\]: although might want b5..
pasky [-\]: oh lol
royalty [3d\]: maybe not
pasky [-\]: d8 in atari
tromp [-\]: c6 d9 c3
pasky [-\]: ok ^^]
BL[1505.872];W[cd]
C[mmueller [4d?\]: b5 now maybe
mmueller [4d?\]: try to kill :))
tromp [-\]: b better take c3
tromp [-\]: maybe c4 playable too
mmueller [4d?\]: c3 is the safe way to lose
mmueller [4d?\]: b5 is harder for programs to see what happens]
WL[2301.793];B[hd]BL[1367.004];W[gd]
C[tromp [-\]: whoops
royalty [3d\]: mogo is running out of options
Archaic [1d\]: boo]
WL[2298.799];B[hc]BL[1235.814];W[hb]
C[Archaic [1d\]: now under chinese rules h6 wouldn't be a penalty
Archaic [1d\]: cause b f6 reduce gives same result
Archaic [1d\]: but in japanese rules it gives white +1 point
Archaic [1d\]: just as there is no penalty for giving opponents \
dead stones in chinese rules
Archaic [1d\]: or filling in territory
royalty [3d\]: except that it is still a loss
maszrum [-\]: wrong
Archaic [1d\]: so those tesuji moves that make your opponent fill \
in more territory
Archaic [1d\]: won't work in chinese rules it will be the same]
WL[2289.399];B[be]
C[maszrum [-\]: in chinese rules you still lose points if the game \
is not finished]
BL[1132.809];W[cf]
C[Archaic [1d\]: ?
Archaic [1d\]: make sense
royalty [3d\]: it is still the same difference
royalty [3d\]: by playing moves inside you lose moves outside
royalty [3d\]: which are dames that count as points]
WL[2285.044];B[da]
C[yoyoma [1d\]: I bought a bunch of Chinese go strategy books but \
I had to throw them out since I usually play Japanese rules
maszrum [-\]: :)]
BL[1034.725];W[bf]
C[Archaic [1d\]: i wasn't talking to u royalty
yoyoma [1d\]: They kept saying stuff like increase the sacrifice \
to 2 stones, but man in Japanese rules that just loses points!!
Archaic [1d\]: i was talking to maszrum
royalty [3d\]: neither was i to you
royalty [3d\]: why are you assuming i talked to you
maszrum [-\]: I guess I made sense
Archaic [1d\]: ko
yank [?\]: This game is much closer than I thought.
maszrum [-\]: maybe my english is not perfect, but with a little \
thought you could understand me]
WL[2258.841]
;B[bc]BL[949.954];W[ab]
C[Archaic [1d\]: nope
Archaic [1d\]: your english  needs to be semi understandable]
WL[2255.105];B[gb]BL[868.618];W[fb]WL[2243.336];B[he]BL[797.535];W[ic]
C[Khronos90 [7k\]: black going to lose on time..
yank [?\]: b is losing anyway......
ketchup [4k\]: hard time understanding what black is trying..]
WL[2238.128];B[ib]BL[730.955];W[ia]
C[yank [?\]: I think b will resign soon.
Archaic [1d\]: er]
WL[2224.05];B[ba]
C[Archaic [1d\]: b has zilch]
BL[671.115];W[ae]WL[2217.703]
;B[ch]BL[616.465];W[bh]
C[Archaic [1d\]: b1]
WL[2214.061];B[bi]BL[566.174];W[bg]
C[Archaic [1d\]: oops
Archaic [1d\]: h2]
WL[2209.732];B[ha]BL[519.349];W[ga]
C[dat: i can play this poorly in a tenth of the time :)
Archaic [1d\]: ...
Archaic [1d\]: now there's nothing that i don't understand about \
that
Archaic [1d\]: why does this bot play these moves]
WL[2206.393];B[ah]BL[475.885];W[ag]
C[Archaic [1d\]: h2]
WL[2202.644];B[if]BL[436.417];W[hh]
C[Archaic [1d\]: ..........
Archaic [1d\]: hey
Archaic [1d\]: about those komi discussions
Archaic [1d\]: on why japanese has 6.5 and chinese 7.5
Archaic [1d\]: tromp and whomever else
Archaic [1d\]: got links
maszrum [-\]: is there a rematch?]
WL[2199.499])
